Most (all?) swarms have an ability, "Swarm", that reads:
Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa, and the swarm can move through any opening large enough for a Tiny <insert swarm type here>. The swarm can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points.
Speaking specifically to the first part, "The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa"... how many swarms can fit in a single space? How many can fit in a space occupied by another, non-swarm, creature?
While not completely RAW, another way to interpret that is that the swarm grows larger and is no longer considered two separate swarms. As a single swarm, it cannot occupy its own space twice but maybe it can occupy extra spaces as if it were more than one swarm, even dividing itself, but still unable to have two or more swarms on a single space.
EDIT: That is assuming it is a swarm of the same type. Even with the double-occupied caveat, RAW would still allow swarms of different creatures to occupy the same space.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Yeah, at one point do two overlapping swarms become one? As a DM I would argue that they're always one swarm unless they comprise different monster types.
This is my personal interpretation, but I focus on "another creature's space" wording being singular. If a swarm is already occupying another creature's space, it's more than one creatures in that space, and thus another swarm cannot move on the same spot.
Coincidentally, and because I like internal consistency, that means that a swarm can't move in another swarm's space either - a swarm is more than one creature.
I find that this interpretation disallows for some edge cases (a swarm of spiders riding a swarm of rats), but it generally prevents a lot of complications.
RAW: infinite. But don't be a jerk DM and suddenly reveal that this swarm of rats was actually 479 swarms of rats layered on top of each other...
Actually, it's the opposite case. I initially interpreted it as "infinite", and am in danger or being a "jerk DM" by allowing only two (reading "another creature's" as "one other creature's"), and limiting the druid's Conjure Animals' summoned creatures, for which the player prefers swarms, specifically Swarm of Rats. His tactic is often to up-cast the spell as lvl 5, summon 16 Swarms of Rats, move them all into a target's space, and roll 16 attacks at +2, for 2d6 damage each, and getting 16 Opportunity Attacks if the target moves off w/o disengaging.
Conjure Animals has been changed so that the DM picks what is summoned, not the PC. You can put a stop to that by picking what is summoned and not picking swarms. I’d definitely rule that only one swarm can occupy one space though.
Conjure Animals has been changed so that the DM picks what is summoned, not the PC. You can put a stop to that by picking what is summoned and not picking swarms.
This is true, and we're aware of it, but have decided to leave the decision with the player, at least for now, in the interest of fun, mostly. Fortunately, the player focuses more on summoning animals and not woodland beings, so we're not seeing a lot of Pixie abuse. :D
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Most (all?) swarms have an ability, "Swarm", that reads:
Speaking specifically to the first part, "The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa"... how many swarms can fit in a single space? How many can fit in a space occupied by another, non-swarm, creature?
For reference: Swarm of Rats, Swarm of Quippers, Swarm of Bats, etc.
RAW: infinite. But don't be a jerk DM and suddenly reveal that this swarm of rats was actually 479 swarms of rats layered on top of each other...
While not completely RAW, another way to interpret that is that the swarm grows larger and is no longer considered two separate swarms. As a single swarm, it cannot occupy its own space twice but maybe it can occupy extra spaces as if it were more than one swarm, even dividing itself, but still unable to have two or more swarms on a single space.
EDIT: That is assuming it is a swarm of the same type. Even with the double-occupied caveat, RAW would still allow swarms of different creatures to occupy the same space.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Yeah, at one point do two overlapping swarms become one? As a DM I would argue that they're always one swarm unless they comprise different monster types.
This is my personal interpretation, but I focus on "another creature's space" wording being singular. If a swarm is already occupying another creature's space, it's more than one creatures in that space, and thus another swarm cannot move on the same spot.
Coincidentally, and because I like internal consistency, that means that a swarm can't move in another swarm's space either - a swarm is more than one creature.
I find that this interpretation disallows for some edge cases (a swarm of spiders riding a swarm of rats), but it generally prevents a lot of complications.
Actually, it's the opposite case. I initially interpreted it as "infinite", and am in danger or being a "jerk DM" by allowing only two (reading "another creature's" as "one other creature's"), and limiting the druid's Conjure Animals' summoned creatures, for which the player prefers swarms, specifically Swarm of Rats. His tactic is often to up-cast the spell as lvl 5, summon 16 Swarms of Rats, move them all into a target's space, and roll 16 attacks at +2, for 2d6 damage each, and getting 16 Opportunity Attacks if the target moves off w/o disengaging.
Conjure Animals has been changed so that the DM picks what is summoned, not the PC. You can put a stop to that by picking what is summoned and not picking swarms. I’d definitely rule that only one swarm can occupy one space though.
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If a swarm can't occupy the space of another swarm, then one swarm of rats has no way of ever hurting another swarm of rats - both have range 0.
I would suggest a sensible home rule limitation of never more than two swarms in one space.
I would also say 2 swarms plus something else would be a sensible judgement.
If one of my players insisted that 6+ or whatever swarms was better and NEEDED, well I wouldn't deny the party getting hit by that.
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This is true, and we're aware of it, but have decided to leave the decision with the player, at least for now, in the interest of fun, mostly. Fortunately, the player focuses more on summoning animals and not woodland beings, so we're not seeing a lot of Pixie abuse. :D