This hasn’t come up in my game yet but I had a thought this morning. One of my players is a ranger warlock optimizer. He has written out scrolls before and has been amassing a collection of spell books taken from wizards he has either found dead or killed. Would he be able to scribe a scroll from one of those spell books? As he doesn’t have access to eldritch invocations yet he doesn’t have the ability to learn new ones yet but would he be able to use this as a workaround. I haven’t decided whether I would allow it if it is “legal” but I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before he thinks of it.
Rules say no. From Xanathar's: "Moreover, the character must have the spell prepared, or it must be among the character’s known spells, in order to scribe a scroll of that spell."
That’s what I figured just making sure. One of these days I need to either figure out how to search better or read all the books a couple times. Thanks
Rangers and warlocks don't learn spells from written sources and you can't scribe a scroll without being able to cast the spell yourself anyways. At best, they could learn some new ritual spells if they have the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation.
Spell scrolls aren't simply written descriptions of how to cast a spell, they're magic items that allows a spell to be cast.
Addition to all that’s above, as some DM fiat, if this is being done a lot/abused you feel. You can always caveat that the wizards or whoever’s spellbook are “coding” them in, and turn them all into small puzzles that the character wanting to scribe a scroll from them would have to complete first or the book self destructs like an inspector gadget note.
Rules say no. From Xanathar's: "Moreover, the character must have the spell prepared, or it must be among the character’s known spells, in order to scribe a scroll of that spell."
The only required rules are in the core rulebooks, Xanathar's, and the rule text contained therein, is optional (some on this forum take that idea to extreme lengths, calling text in Xanathar's not rules). With that being said, essentially the same rule can be found in the DMG:
The character must also be a spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce.
inquisitive, I know they don’t learn spells that way but my thoughts were if one or more of the spells were shared between the warlock and wizard classes he might want to transcribe them into a scroll if it were possible, spending one of his slots to supply the magic and the book as the knowing.
mcdonaldozer, that’s a good idea
shaylic, I was specifically thinking of the book of ancient secrets invocation but had forgotten that that was specifically for ritual spells and we probably won’t get it anyway.
inquisitive, I know they don’t learn spells that way but my thoughts were if one or more of the spells were shared between the warlock and wizard classes he might want to transcribe them into a scroll if it were possible, spending one of his slots to supply the magic and the book as the knowing.
It is simply not possible, and that's what IC is trying to get at.
All spells that are in written form (spell books/scrolls), regardless of the class(es) associated are written in notation/code that is unique to the individual whom wrote it. Even if the Warlock could read and understand that a scroll casts Banishment, the Warlock would have absolutely no idea how to cast it as the underlying principles would only make sense to another Wizard.
The most literal comparison I can think of is automotive transmission. You might know everything there is to know about how to operate a vehicle with an automatic (Warlock) transmission. If you try to hop in another vehicle of the same make/model that's a manual (Wizard) transmission, without having that same familiarity as you do with automatic, you're not going to make it off the lot.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
inquisitive, I know they don’t learn spells that way but my thoughts were if one or more of the spells were shared between the warlock and wizard classes he might want to transcribe them into a scroll if it were possible, spending one of his slots to supply the magic and the book as the knowing.
mcdonaldozer, that’s a good idea
shaylic, I was specifically thinking of the book of ancient secrets invocation but had forgotten that that was specifically for ritual spells and we probably won’t get it anyway.
He could possibly sell the spellbooks to a wizard or as trade have the wizard scribe some of the spells into scrolls. But RAW to scribe the spell it has to be a spell known or prepared. Even a wizard with his spellbook would have to prepare the spell for the day to scribe it otherwise he would have to wait. The warlock could scribe spells he knows into scrolls so that he could have an emergency backup.
This hasn’t come up in my game yet but I had a thought this morning. One of my players is a ranger warlock optimizer. He has written out scrolls before and has been amassing a collection of spell books taken from wizards he has either found dead or killed. Would he be able to scribe a scroll from one of those spell books? As he doesn’t have access to eldritch invocations yet he doesn’t have the ability to learn new ones yet but would he be able to use this as a workaround. I haven’t decided whether I would allow it if it is “legal” but I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before he thinks of it.
Rules say no. From Xanathar's: "Moreover, the character must have the spell prepared, or it must be among the character’s known spells, in order to scribe a scroll of that spell."
That’s what I figured just making sure. One of these days I need to either figure out how to search better or read all the books a couple times. Thanks
Well that's what this forum section is for... when a rule is difficult to find or unclear, sometimes it's faster just to ask.
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Rangers and warlocks don't learn spells from written sources and you can't scribe a scroll without being able to cast the spell yourself anyways. At best, they could learn some new ritual spells if they have the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation.
Spell scrolls aren't simply written descriptions of how to cast a spell, they're magic items that allows a spell to be cast.
Addition to all that’s above, as some DM fiat, if this is being done a lot/abused you feel. You can always caveat that the wizards or whoever’s spellbook are “coding” them in, and turn them all into small puzzles that the character wanting to scribe a scroll from them would have to complete first or the book self destructs like an inspector gadget note.
Are you talking about the pact of the tome for warlock when mentioning invocations?
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
The only required rules are in the core rulebooks, Xanathar's, and the rule text contained therein, is optional (some on this forum take that idea to extreme lengths, calling text in Xanathar's not rules). With that being said, essentially the same rule can be found in the DMG:
shaylic, I was specifically thinking of the book of ancient secrets invocation but had forgotten that that was specifically for ritual spells and we probably won’t get it anyway.
It is simply not possible, and that's what IC is trying to get at.
All spells that are in written form (spell books/scrolls), regardless of the class(es) associated are written in notation/code that is unique to the individual whom wrote it. Even if the Warlock could read and understand that a scroll casts Banishment, the Warlock would have absolutely no idea how to cast it as the underlying principles would only make sense to another Wizard.
The most literal comparison I can think of is automotive transmission. You might know everything there is to know about how to operate a vehicle with an automatic (Warlock) transmission. If you try to hop in another vehicle of the same make/model that's a manual (Wizard) transmission, without having that same familiarity as you do with automatic, you're not going to make it off the lot.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
He could possibly sell the spellbooks to a wizard or as trade have the wizard scribe some of the spells into scrolls. But RAW to scribe the spell it has to be a spell known or prepared. Even a wizard with his spellbook would have to prepare the spell for the day to scribe it otherwise he would have to wait. The warlock could scribe spells he knows into scrolls so that he could have an emergency backup.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
That makes sense, thanks.