If you cast Dispel Magic while the chest is on Ethereal Plane then it is irretrievably lost. Likewise if you destroy the replica.
...
This was because I had not paid attention to the Duration.
I know better, now.
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It is impossible to dispel a spell with duration 'Instantaneous' because you can only dispel a spell before it has ended (causing it to end), and a spell with a duration of 'instantaneous' ends immediately on casting, though it can produce lasting effects.
If you fireball a forest, the fireball is instantaneous, but the forest fire it starts will persist. That does not mean you can dispel the forest fire.
Agreed for the most part, nobody's asking to dispel a forest fire. But tell me how you read the actual words of Secret Chest, which tells you explicitly that the spell hasn't ended in its final paragraph, and then still give me that as a response? You're just repeating generalities, how does the language of this spell specifically lead you to the conclusion that the spell has "ended immediately on casting"? If you're telling me that the wording of the spell is wrong and should be errata'd, why is that any more likely than that the possibility that the word in the spell block header is wrong and should be errata'd?
Where does it say that? The ending conditions all focus on the Effect, the chest itself or it’s replica, not the spell used to hide it.
It is impossible to dispel a spell with duration 'Instantaneous' because you can only dispel a spell before it has ended (causing it to end), and a spell with a duration of 'instantaneous' ends immediately on casting, though it can produce lasting effects.
If you fireball a forest, the fireball is instantaneous, but the forest fire it starts will persist. That does not mean you can dispel the forest fire.
Agreed for the most part, nobody's asking to dispel a forest fire. But tell me how you read the actual words of Secret Chest, which tells you explicitly that the spell hasn't ended in its final paragraph, and then still give me that as a response? You're just repeating generalities, how does the language of this spell specifically lead you to the conclusion that the spell has "ended immediately on casting"? If you're telling me that the wording of the spell is wrong and should be errata'd, why is that any more likely than that the possibility that the word in the spell block header is wrong and should be errata'd?
Where does it say that? The ending conditions all focus on the Effect, the chest itself or it’s replica, not the spell used to hide it.
It says "or if you choose to end the spell as an action" - a mistake since everything else says "the spell's effect" not "the spell" - but Chicken is holding on to that for dear life here as his justification.
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There's the line that says "you choose to end the spell as an action" and one that says "If the spell ends". There is no basis to say that these are the mistake and not the word in the spell block.
Agreed for the most part, nobody's asking to dispel a forest fire. But tell me how you read the actual words of Secret Chest, which tells you explicitly that the spell hasn't ended in its final paragraph, and then still give me that as a response? You're just repeating generalities, how does the language of this spell specifically lead you to the conclusion that the spell has "ended immediately on casting"? If you're telling me that the wording of the spell is wrong and should be errata'd, why is that any more likely than that the possibility that the word in the spell block header is wrong and should be errata'd?
It tells me that one or the other is wrong. This does not mean that Instantaneous spells can be dispelled, it just means Secret Chest may not actually be instantaneous (it wasn't in previous editions). The fact that every other reference mentioned "spell's effect" rather than "spell" suggests the duration change was deliberate and suffered from bad editing, but it could be the other way around.
It says "or if you choose to end the spell as an action" - a mistake since everything else says "the spell's effect" not "the spell" - but Chicken is holding on to that for dear life here as his justification.
To be fair, it actually says "the spell's effect" twice and "the spell" twice as well. That means CC has two sentences in the spell's description which back up their interpretation, while the rest of you are relying entirely on the single word "Instantaneous".
There absolutely must be an error somewhere in the design of this spell, because either it is ended or it is not, but neither party in this discussion really had the right to proclaim that their choice of error is the true one. Either Secret Chest is a Find Familiar situation, or it is an Instant Summons situation. To me it looks like the designers changed their mind half way through the design of the spell and never got around to aligning the text and duration.
Personally, I think I would allow an attempt to Dispel targeting a replica secret chest. It is unlikely to ever come up though, since no party of adventurers has ever found a chest and chosen to throw it into the Astral plane forever rather try to open it.
Well, I do think generally that if we're asked to choose between a general rule in Chapter 10 on one hand + a single-word label, vs. a specific spell that describes itself otherwise in great detail, that the specific-beats-general rulerequires that we give weight to the written out spell as trumping any inconsistency.
But fine, I'll settle on "disputed," clearly there are points to be made on both sides of the issue.
It says "or if you choose to end the spell as an action" - a mistake since everything else says "the spell's effect" not "the spell" - but Chicken is holding on to that for dear life here as his justification.
To be fair, it actually says "the spell's effect" twice and "the spell" twice as well. That means CC has two sentences in the spell's description which back up their interpretation, while the rest of you are relying entirely on the single word "Instantaneous".
There absolutely must be an error somewhere in the design of this spell, because either it is ended or it is not, but neither party in this discussion really had the right to proclaim that their choice of error is the true one. Either Secret Chest is a Find Familiar situation, or it is an Instant Summons situation. To me it looks like the designers changed their mind half way through the design of the spell and never got around to aligning the text and duration.
Personally, I think I would allow an attempt to Dispel targeting a replica secret chest. It is unlikely to ever come up though, since no party of adventurers has ever found a chest and chosen to throw it into the Astral plane forever rather try to open it.
Well, I do think generally that if we're asked to choose between a general rule in Chapter 10 on one hand + a single-word label, vs. a specific spell that describes itself otherwise in great detail, that the specific-beats-general rulerequires that we give weight to the written out spell as trumping any inconsistency.
That is not a correct application of specific > general. The general rule is that no spell with an instantaneous duration is dispellable. In order for a specific rule to override that, there must be a direct reference to dispelling. There is none in the body of Secret Chest. You have zero factual evidence to support your position.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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This was because I had not paid attention to the Duration.
I know better, now.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Where does it say that? The ending conditions all focus on the Effect, the chest itself or it’s replica, not the spell used to hide it.
It says "or if you choose to end the spell as an action" - a mistake since everything else says "the spell's effect" not "the spell" - but Chicken is holding on to that for dear life here as his justification.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
There's the line that says "you choose to end the spell as an action" and one that says "If the spell ends". There is no basis to say that these are the mistake and not the word in the spell block.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It tells me that one or the other is wrong. This does not mean that Instantaneous spells can be dispelled, it just means Secret Chest may not actually be instantaneous (it wasn't in previous editions). The fact that every other reference mentioned "spell's effect" rather than "spell" suggests the duration change was deliberate and suffered from bad editing, but it could be the other way around.
To be fair, it actually says "the spell's effect" twice and "the spell" twice as well. That means CC has two sentences in the spell's description which back up their interpretation, while the rest of you are relying entirely on the single word "Instantaneous".
There absolutely must be an error somewhere in the design of this spell, because either it is ended or it is not, but neither party in this discussion really had the right to proclaim that their choice of error is the true one. Either Secret Chest is a Find Familiar situation, or it is an Instant Summons situation. To me it looks like the designers changed their mind half way through the design of the spell and never got around to aligning the text and duration.
Personally, I think I would allow an attempt to Dispel targeting a replica secret chest. It is unlikely to ever come up though, since no party of adventurers has ever found a chest and chosen to throw it into the Astral plane forever rather try to open it.
Well, I do think generally that if we're asked to choose between a general rule in Chapter 10 on one hand + a single-word label, vs. a specific spell that describes itself otherwise in great detail, that the specific-beats-general rule requires that we give weight to the written out spell as trumping any inconsistency.
But fine, I'll settle on "disputed," clearly there are points to be made on both sides of the issue.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Instant Summons specifically references Dispel Magic in the spell's description. Secret Chest does not.
That is not a correct application of specific > general. The general rule is that no spell with an instantaneous duration is dispellable. In order for a specific rule to override that, there must be a direct reference to dispelling. There is none in the body of Secret Chest. You have zero factual evidence to support your position.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.