Thanks for the link to SAC - it doesn't add much that isn't already covered by PHB, but a lot of people can't/don't really understand what they read, so it helps to have it from a different angle.
I would also say that the Ready action creates a new, temporary reaction that can be used when the conditions you define are satisfied. I don't see any text that would prevent you from using a different reaction instead.
Side note: Thank you for not using the phrase "hold my action" (which drives me f-ing crazy). You take the Ready action and define a trigger for a particular action, and when triggered, expend your reaction to use the Readied action.
Please forgive me if I misinterpreted your second paragraph, but you cannot ready the cast a spell action on your turn if you have used your bonus action to cast a spell (or vice versa) because when you ready the casting action, you are casting the spell. The triggered reaction later on only releases the already-cast spell. The exception, of course, is if the spell you are readying is a cantrip with a casting time of an action.
Some people might recall that when you use the "Ready" action that it's taking up your reaction. But Jeremy has tweeted that if you cast a bonus action spell then you can only use the Ready action to prepare a 1-action cantrip. If I was to imagine this within the main rules as opposed to Jeremy's tweet, I guess you'd note that you're readying the specific spell on your turn.
- "If you cast a bonus action spell, the only type of spell yu can ready that turn is a 1-action cantrip" - "With Ready, you begin casting the spell on your turn, not when you use the reaction later"
Well, yes, that's directly stated in the rules for ready: "When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs." This implies that it's not actually possible to ready cast a spell, though why this is is not explained. It also means that the components for the spell (V, S, M, etc) are used when you ready it not when it goes off, and counterspell can only be used in reaction to readying the spell, not in reaction to releasing the readied spell.
I would also say that the Ready action creates a new, temporary reaction that can be used when the conditions you define are satisfied. I don't see any text that would prevent you from using a different reaction instead.
Side note: Thank you for not using the phrase "hold my action" (which drives me f-ing crazy). You take the Ready action and define a trigger for a particular action, and when triggered, expend your reaction to use the Readied action.
You're correct, you're not "taking up your reaction" (as I wrote) when taking the ready action, you're simply using your action to create an additional reaction option until the start of your next turn.
Sage Advice confirms that you can drop the prepared spell (loosing the slot) and take an opportunity attack for your reaction instead. I can't find text out there to confirm if you could use a different reaction spell, such as feather fall or counter spell instead (or any other reaction beyond Opportunity attack) but with no RAW restricting it, I don't see any reason to think it wouldn't be possible, particularly if you're specifically dropping the spell and loosing the slot (unless it was a cantrip). https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA115 https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA127
The only other thing to note on a readied action spell is that it requires concentration, which means you have to drop any other spell you're concentrating on and if you take damage before the trigger to use reaction then you would roll for concentration and could loose the readied spell. Of course, loosing it still doesn't say you would loose your reaction or the ability to cast a regular reaction spell if that spell's trigger occurred. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#Ready
I can't find text out there to confirm if you could use a different reaction spell, such as feather fall or counter spell instead (or any other reaction beyond Opportunity attack) but with no RAW restricting it, I don't see any reason to think it wouldn't be possible, particularly if you're specifically dropping the spell and loosing the slot (unless it was a cantrip).
As long as you have a valid trigger, you can use your reaction on any spell for which you have a spell slot and an available reaction--not just the spell for which you are readying the casting action.
Also, it occurs to me that when a player or DM readies the casting action for their PC/NPC, we don't typically announce at the table which spell we are readying. Are we supposed to?
Also, it occurs to me that when a player or DM readies the casting action for their PC/NPC, we don't typically announce at the table which spell we are readying. Are we supposed to?
There are two ways of playnig this.
• Some tables annouce all spells, giving casters the information on whether or not to counterspell. GM: The mage casts a lightning bolt. Player: Counterspell!
• Some tables keep it hidden, requiring a Reaction and (optionally) an Ability Check to identify the spell. GM: The mage casts a spell. Player : I try to identify it. GM: That's an INT (Arcana) check please, and remember that it uses your Reaction. Player: *Rolls* 17. GM: It's a lightning bolt. Different player: Counterspell!
It doesn't matter which you use, as long as you are consistent and everyone knows beforehand which method is in use.
Also, it occurs to me that when a player or DM readies the casting action for their PC/NPC, we don't typically announce at the table which spell we are readying. Are we supposed to?
You have to choose the spell when you ready it. Whether observers recognize the spell you have readied is the same as any other spell, though since it's not yet in effect you can't just look at what it does and figure out what it is.
Some people might recall that when you use the "Ready" action that it's taking up your reaction. But Jeremy has tweeted that if you cast a bonus action spell then you can only use the Ready action to prepare a 1-action cantrip. If I was to imagine this within the main rules as opposed to Jeremy's tweet, I guess you'd note that you're readying the specific spell on your turn. - "If you cast a bonus action spell, the only type of spell yu can ready that turn is a 1-action cantrip" - "With Ready, you begin casting the spell on your turn, not when you use the reaction later"
I had thought that the "Ready" action took your entire turn, but the implications of the tweet (and the lack of anything explicit in the rules) are that it doesn't. So movement, object interaction, communication, bonus action, etc. are all possible. So much more potential than "hold my action" (which implies you do nothing and move to a different position in the initiative order)...
But to get back to the main topic, I think the rule could be stated somewhat more clearly as: On your turn, you may cast as many spells as your action economy allows, following the casting time restrictions in the spell descriptions, with the exception that casting a leveled spell as a bonus action restricts you to cantrips and non-spell actions for your action. Outside your turn, you have 1 reaction which can be used with an appropriate spell if conditions permit.
Two items that aren't clarified: 1. Does casting a bonus action cantrip (a type of spell) cause the same exception/restriction to apply? (implied: yes) 2. If you have multiple actions, are all of them restricted to cantrips if you cast a leveled spell as your bonus action? (implied: yes)
Some people might recall that when you use the "Ready" action that it's taking up your reaction. But Jeremy has tweeted that if you cast a bonus action spell then you can only use the Ready action to prepare a 1-action cantrip. If I was to imagine this within the main rules as opposed to Jeremy's tweet, I guess you'd note that you're readying the specific spell on your turn. - "If you cast a bonus action spell, the only type of spell yu can ready that turn is a 1-action cantrip" - "With Ready, you begin casting the spell on your turn, not when you use the reaction later"
I had thought that the "Ready" action took your entire turn, but the implications of the tweet (and the lack of anything explicit in the rules) are that it doesn't. So movement, object interaction, communication, bonus action, etc. are all possible. So much more potential than "hold my action" (which implies you do nothing and move to a different position in the initiative order)...
But to get back to the main topic, I think the rule could be stated somewhat more clearly as: On your turn, you may cast as many spells as your action economy allows, following the casting time restrictions in the spell descriptions, with the exception that casting a leveled spell as a bonus action restricts you to cantrips and non-spell actions for your action. Outside your turn, you have 1 reaction which can be used with an appropriate spell if conditions permit.
Two items that aren't clarified: 1. Does casting a bonus action cantrip (a type of spell) cause the same exception/restriction to apply? (implied: yes) 2. If you have multiple actions, are all of them restricted to cantrips if you cast a leveled spell as your bonus action? (implied: yes)
Yes, it's completely clarified, just like the Ready action has always been clarified completely as an action that you take. There aren't any actions that take up your entire turn, by definition - they take up one action.
I'll try to give you the rules as clearly as I can, to cover your questions.
As a cantrip is a spell and all spells with a casting time of 1 bonus action are subject to the above rule, cantrips with a casting time of 1 bonus action are subject to the above rule.
To be 100% clear, here's the sentence again with the word cantrip inserted, for the specific case of casting a bonus action cantrip: "You can cast a cantrip on your turn that has a casting time of 1 bonus action if and only if all other spells you cast on that turn are cantrips with a casting time of 1 action."
This is explicit, not implied.
It is likewise explicit, not implied, that the above rule applies no matter how many actions you have.
It's probably more accurate to use the third definition: unambiguous in expression. However, the reality is that neither of the questions you ask is at all ambiguous:
1. Does casting a bonus action cantrip (a type of spell) cause the same exception/restriction to apply? (implied: yes) 2. If you have multiple actions, are all of them restricted to cantrips if you cast a leveled spell as your bonus action? (implied: yes)
Neither of those is 'implied'. There is nothing unclear about
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
A bonus action cantrip is a spell, so the above text applies and you cannot cast another spell, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Multiple actions are still actions on your turn, and therefore cannot be used to cast a spell other than a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
the ready action is so underrated... but casting a spell as a readied action is the worse thing ever. because you give all the monsters between you and the ready action to just cancel you.
but yes, ready action is just an action, on your turn you still have movement and bonus still. you just can't do movement or bonus action during a reaction. i guess the confusion came from that part.
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the ready action is so underrated... but casting a spell as a readied action is the worse thing ever.
Using attack as a readied action is just about as bad, because you can't use extra attacks (extra attacks only apply to taking the attack action on your turn).
the ready action is so underrated... but casting a spell as a readied action is the worse thing ever. because you give all the monsters between you and the ready action to just cancel you.
but yes, ready action is just an action, on your turn you still have movement and bonus still. you just can't do movement or bonus action during a reaction. i guess the confusion came from that part.
Ready action can specify movement. From the PHB for "Ready" - "choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed"
Note that it doesn't say your remaining speed so the presumption would be that you're effectively taking the "dash" action as a reaction.
On the original topic of casting multiple spells in one round though, a 2nd or higher level fighter with "Action Surge", can cast 2 leveled spells in one turn and use a reaction levelled spell on their turn if a situation is presented and they have one (such as counterspelling another counterspell or featherfall if they step on a pit trap).
However, if they cast a single bonus action spell, even a cantrip one, then all of those action surges can only cast cantrips and the reaction can only cast a levelled spell if it's in response to something outside the player's turn and it's not a readied spell as part of the "ready" action.
I think it is supposed to be assumed by exclusion but what if I cast a Cantrip as my bonus action. Is that casting a spell as a bonus action? Can I cast a second cantrip as an action?
Also what reason is there to prevent casting a BA cantrip and a leveled spell as an action on the same turn?
I get why 2 leveled spells would be off and 2 cantrips seem weird too. 1 of each, so long as they properly use the actions/bonus actions available seems sensible to me.
RAW If you cast a cantrip as a bonus action you can cast a cantrip but not a levelled spell with your Action. I do not see why you think casting two cantrips is weird. Cantrips are low level 3asy spells, if you can cast one as well as a more draining levelled spell why not two easy spells.
The rules can be a little odd in that a sorcerer can cast a quickened fireball and a fireball in a turn but not the otherwise round. It is definitely a balance thing that means you cannot cast a levelled spell with both your Action and bonus action. Whether is was for balance or something else that the devs decided to let you use a levelled spell as bot an action and a reaction on you turn but not a bonus action and reaction, or to allow Fighter MCs to cast multiple spells with Action Surge I do not know.
I get why 2 leveled spells would be off and 2 cantrips seem weird too. 1 of each, so long as they properly use the actions/bonus actions available seems sensible to me.
2 cantrips or 2 leveled spells are both legal if you stay away from BA spells. The only relevant rule is the one listed above, which is that BA spells (cantrip or not) turn off all other spells except for Action Cantrips (so no Reaction Spells, no additional BA Spells even with some rule letting you sling a second BA, no Action Leveled Spells, no spells with a casting time measured in minutes or hours, etc).
Is this just a balance thing?
On this forum we generally don't even attempt to answer questions about why WOTC made a given rule the way they did unless we've gotten into an RAI discussion for a rule with very confusing RAW, which is not the case here.
Metamagic feat, Action Surge, Haste Spell, Time Stop, spell. (level 17 thief/level 3 fighter buffed with haste holding a wand can in theory use even more than 2, not even talking about timestop)
A spell with bonus action can be used in tandem with cantrip that requires an action(or vice versa).
I don't believe using a wand works as your extra action for haste. And even if it did, you would still be bound by the bonus action casting rule on your turn :) Time stop gives you multiple turns, but the bonus action casting rule would apply within each of the turns.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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Thanks for the link to SAC - it doesn't add much that isn't already covered by PHB, but a lot of people can't/don't really understand what they read, so it helps to have it from a different angle.
I would also say that the Ready action creates a new, temporary reaction that can be used when the conditions you define are satisfied. I don't see any text that would prevent you from using a different reaction instead.
Side note: Thank you for not using the phrase "hold my action" (which drives me f-ing crazy). You take the Ready action and define a trigger for a particular action, and when triggered, expend your reaction to use the Readied action.
Please forgive me if I misinterpreted your second paragraph, but you cannot ready the cast a spell action on your turn if you have used your bonus action to cast a spell (or vice versa) because when you ready the casting action, you are casting the spell. The triggered reaction later on only releases the already-cast spell. The exception, of course, is if the spell you are readying is a cantrip with a casting time of an action.
EDIT: This is reiterating post #43.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Well, yes, that's directly stated in the rules for ready: "When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs." This implies that it's not actually possible to ready cast a spell, though why this is is not explained. It also means that the components for the spell (V, S, M, etc) are used when you ready it not when it goes off, and counterspell can only be used in reaction to readying the spell, not in reaction to releasing the readied spell.
You're correct, you're not "taking up your reaction" (as I wrote) when taking the ready action, you're simply using your action to create an additional reaction option until the start of your next turn.
Sage Advice confirms that you can drop the prepared spell (loosing the slot) and take an opportunity attack for your reaction instead. I can't find text out there to confirm if you could use a different reaction spell, such as feather fall or counter spell instead (or any other reaction beyond Opportunity attack) but with no RAW restricting it, I don't see any reason to think it wouldn't be possible, particularly if you're specifically dropping the spell and loosing the slot (unless it was a cantrip).
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA115
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA127
The only other thing to note on a readied action spell is that it requires concentration, which means you have to drop any other spell you're concentrating on and if you take damage before the trigger to use reaction then you would roll for concentration and could loose the readied spell. Of course, loosing it still doesn't say you would loose your reaction or the ability to cast a regular reaction spell if that spell's trigger occurred.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#Ready
As long as you have a valid trigger, you can use your reaction on any spell for which you have a spell slot and an available reaction--not just the spell for which you are readying the casting action.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Also, it occurs to me that when a player or DM readies the casting action for their PC/NPC, we don't typically announce at the table which spell we are readying. Are we supposed to?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
There are two ways of playnig this.
• Some tables annouce all spells, giving casters the information on whether or not to counterspell.
GM: The mage casts a lightning bolt.
Player: Counterspell!
• Some tables keep it hidden, requiring a Reaction and (optionally) an Ability Check to identify the spell.
GM: The mage casts a spell.
Player : I try to identify it.
GM: That's an INT (Arcana) check please, and remember that it uses your Reaction.
Player: *Rolls* 17.
GM: It's a lightning bolt.
Different player: Counterspell!
It doesn't matter which you use, as long as you are consistent and everyone knows beforehand which method is in use.
You have to choose the spell when you ready it. Whether observers recognize the spell you have readied is the same as any other spell, though since it's not yet in effect you can't just look at what it does and figure out what it is.
I had thought that the "Ready" action took your entire turn, but the implications of the tweet (and the lack of anything explicit in the rules) are that it doesn't. So movement, object interaction, communication, bonus action, etc. are all possible. So much more potential than "hold my action" (which implies you do nothing and move to a different position in the initiative order)...
But to get back to the main topic, I think the rule could be stated somewhat more clearly as:
On your turn, you may cast as many spells as your action economy allows, following the casting time restrictions in the spell descriptions, with the exception that casting a leveled spell as a bonus action restricts you to cantrips and non-spell actions for your action. Outside your turn, you have 1 reaction which can be used with an appropriate spell if conditions permit.
Two items that aren't clarified:
1. Does casting a bonus action cantrip (a type of spell) cause the same exception/restriction to apply? (implied: yes)
2. If you have multiple actions, are all of them restricted to cantrips if you cast a leveled spell as your bonus action? (implied: yes)
Yes, it's completely clarified, just like the Ready action has always been clarified completely as an action that you take. There aren't any actions that take up your entire turn, by definition - they take up one action.
I'll try to give you the rules as clearly as I can, to cover your questions.
You can cast a spell on your turn that has a casting time of 1 bonus action if and only if all other spells you cast on that turn are cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
So:
Thanks for talking down, but perhaps you need the official definition: Explicit: fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity : leaving no question as to meaning or intent.
It's probably more accurate to use the third definition: unambiguous in expression. However, the reality is that neither of the questions you ask is at all ambiguous:
Neither of those is 'implied'. There is nothing unclear about
A bonus action cantrip is a spell, so the above text applies and you cannot cast another spell, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Multiple actions are still actions on your turn, and therefore cannot be used to cast a spell other than a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
the ready action is so underrated...
but casting a spell as a readied action is the worse thing ever.
because you give all the monsters between you and the ready action to just cancel you.
but yes, ready action is just an action, on your turn you still have movement and bonus still. you just can't do movement or bonus action during a reaction. i guess the confusion came from that part.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Using attack as a readied action is just about as bad, because you can't use extra attacks (extra attacks only apply to taking the attack action on your turn).
Ready action can specify movement. From the PHB for "Ready" - "choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed"
Note that it doesn't say your remaining speed so the presumption would be that you're effectively taking the "dash" action as a reaction.
On the original topic of casting multiple spells in one round though, a 2nd or higher level fighter with "Action Surge", can cast 2 leveled spells in one turn and use a reaction levelled spell on their turn if a situation is presented and they have one (such as counterspelling another counterspell or featherfall if they step on a pit trap).
However, if they cast a single bonus action spell, even a cantrip one, then all of those action surges can only cast cantrips and the reaction can only cast a levelled spell if it's in response to something outside the player's turn and it's not a readied spell as part of the "ready" action.
I think it is supposed to be assumed by exclusion but what if I cast a Cantrip as my bonus action. Is that casting a spell as a bonus action? Can I cast a second cantrip as an action?
Also what reason is there to prevent casting a BA cantrip and a leveled spell as an action on the same turn?
I get why 2 leveled spells would be off and 2 cantrips seem weird too. 1 of each, so long as they properly use the actions/bonus actions available seems sensible to me.
Is this just a balance thing?
RAW If you cast a cantrip as a bonus action you can cast a cantrip but not a levelled spell with your Action. I do not see why you think casting two cantrips is weird. Cantrips are low level 3asy spells, if you can cast one as well as a more draining levelled spell why not two easy spells.
The rules can be a little odd in that a sorcerer can cast a quickened fireball and a fireball in a turn but not the otherwise round. It is definitely a balance thing that means you cannot cast a levelled spell with both your Action and bonus action. Whether is was for balance or something else that the devs decided to let you use a levelled spell as bot an action and a reaction on you turn but not a bonus action and reaction, or to allow Fighter MCs to cast multiple spells with Action Surge I do not know.
Of course it is, all cantrips are spells.
Yes.
You can't cast another spell [in addition to casting a spell with a bonus action] during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
2 cantrips or 2 leveled spells are both legal if you stay away from BA spells. The only relevant rule is the one listed above, which is that BA spells (cantrip or not) turn off all other spells except for Action Cantrips (so no Reaction Spells, no additional BA Spells even with some rule letting you sling a second BA, no Action Leveled Spells, no spells with a casting time measured in minutes or hours, etc).
On this forum we generally don't even attempt to answer questions about why WOTC made a given rule the way they did unless we've gotten into an RAI discussion for a rule with very confusing RAW, which is not the case here.
Metamagic feat, Action Surge, Haste Spell, Time Stop, spell. (level 17 thief/level 3 fighter buffed with haste holding a wand can in theory use even more than 2, not even talking about timestop)
A spell with bonus action can be used in tandem with cantrip that requires an action(or vice versa).
I don't believe using a wand works as your extra action for haste. And even if it did, you would still be bound by the bonus action casting rule on your turn :) Time stop gives you multiple turns, but the bonus action casting rule would apply within each of the turns.
"Not all those who wander are lost"