While a druid is in their wild shape form (i.e. a bear), can they can be "detected" with a Detect Magic spell or can they be forced back into their non-animal form with a Dispel Magic?
ok. Thanks. I will have to figure out a more creative way to hide/sneak around while in wild shape.
Well, most people won't be using detect magic all the time anyway, but bear in mind that detect magic doesn't tell you where the magic is -- you can only spot auras around creatures you can already see. Thus, opponents who don't spot you will just be aware of the presence of magic. The easy solution is to find a wizard to cast Arcanist's Magic Aura on you (that spell, incidentally, has the logical consequence of making detect magic totally useless for detecting long term magic traps, since casting a second level spell every day for 30 days is not a dire expense).
Thanks. I like to wild shape into a rat, cat, or crow (they are everywhere in cities) and recon an area or just listen in on conversations. Suddenly, there were creatures casting detect magic everywhere and discovering me or they had Gems of Seeing (a very popular item for paranoid nobles, btw). Spending time in a jail or dungeon and having to be rescued or ransomed is not a lot of fun and can get expensive. I think the DM got tired of me doing that get information, either that or the people in the town/city/castle were really paranoid about shapeshifters. I vote for the paranoid people. I would never accuse a DM of making it difficult ...
Thanks. I like to wild shape into a rat, cat, or crow (they are everywhere in cities) and recon an area or just listen in on conversations. Suddenly, there were creatures casting detect magic everywhere and discovering me or they had Gems of Seeing (a very popular item for paranoid nobles, btw). Spending time in a jail or dungeon and having to be rescued or ransomed is not a lot of fun and can get expensive. I think the DM got tired of me doing that get information, either that or the people in the town/city/castle were really paranoid about shapeshifters. I vote for the paranoid people. I would never accuse a DM of making it difficult ...
That’s just “subtle” DM code for: “don’t expect the same trick to work every single time”
Thanks. I like to wild shape into a rat, cat, or crow (they are everywhere in cities) and recon an area or just listen in on conversations. Suddenly, there were creatures casting detect magic everywhere and discovering me or they had Gems of Seeing (a very popular item for paranoid nobles, btw). Spending time in a jail or dungeon and having to be rescued or ransomed is not a lot of fun and can get expensive. I think the DM got tired of me doing that get information, either that or the people in the town/city/castle were really paranoid about shapeshifters. I vote for the paranoid people. I would never accuse a DM of making it difficult ...
That’s just “subtle” DM code for: “don’t expect the same trick to work every single time”
That's DM code for I know you could do that with ease, but I don't like it when you're right.
I found this answer reading about using Dispel Magic against Wild Shape or polymorphed creatures, and I'd like to mention a similar question was answered in Sage Advice Compendium.
Can you use dispel magic to dispel a magical effect like a vampire’s Charm ability or a druid’s Wild Shape?
Dispel magic has a particular purpose: to break other spells. It has no effect on a vampire’s Charm ability or any other magical effect that isn’t a spell. It also does nothing to the properties of a magic item. It can, however, end a spell cast from a magic item or from another source. Spells—they’re what dispel magic is about. For example, if you cast dispel magic on a staff of power, the spell fails to disrupt the staff’s magical properties, but if the staff’s wielder casts hold monster from the staff, dispel magic can end that spell if cast on the target of hold monster.
One would be forgiven for not thinking of dispel magic as being only for spells. As far as I know, it is only specified as such in SAC and a number of first-party adventures utilize dispel magic in a context other than for ending spells. It does make me wonder if this is going to be so specifically defined in the upcoming material revision.
One would be forgiven for not thinking of dispel magic as being only for spells. As far as I know, it is only specified as such in SAC.
It's specified in the text of Dispel Magic. I'm not sure how you would interpret that as affecting anything that isn't a spell. It can target non-spells, but what it does is end spells on the target.
Evidence that people don't read the full text of a spell?
Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spellof 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spellof 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spellends.
There's nothing ambiguous there, though the wording is clonky because it's intuitive to think of dispel magic targeting a spell, not the subject of a spell, and so if you only read the first sentence you might decide it can dispel a magical effect other than a spell (it can target a magical effect other than a spell... and then removes any spells on that effect).
I'm honestly not even sure what we're talking about at this point. I don't need you to make the case to me that dispel magic is meant for spells. Aside from offering some kind words to the OP for making a very understandable and common misunderstanding about the purpose of the spell, I really don't have much else to add to the thread. I didn't think my post really required a response in the first place.
I agree that the text of the 5E version of the spell is very clear that dispel magic works only against spells....but anyone who's played previous versions might understandably think otherwise. As far back as 1E, dispel magic had much wider usage, including suppressing magic items and turning potions to mundane liquid.
I agree that the text of the 5E version of the spell is very clear that dispel magic works only against spells....but anyone who's played previous versions might understandably think otherwise. As far back as 1E, dispel magic had much wider usage, including suppressing magic items and turning potions to mundane liquid.
That's true, for example in AD&D 2e, we have something like this (emphasis mine):
First, it removes spells and spell-like effects (including device effects and innate abilities) from creatures or objects. Second, it disrupts the casting or use of these in the area of effect at the instant the dispel is cast. Third, it destroys magical potions (which are treated as 12th level for purposes of this spell). ... A dispel magic spell does not affect a specially enchanted item, such as a magical scroll, ring, wand, rod, staff, miscellaneous item, weapon, shield, or armor, unless it is cast directly upon the item. This renders the item nonoperational for 1d4 rounds. ...
It was more "complex" in some way.
In DnD 3e, not exactly the same but also broader than 5e (emphasis mine):
The character can use dispel magic to end ongoing spells that have been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, to end ongoing spells (or at least their effects) within an area, or to counter another spellcaster's spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, can't be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) the ongoing effects of supernatural abilities as well as spells. Dispel magic affects spell-like effects just as it affects spells.
Note: The effects of spells with instantaneous duration cant be dispelled, because the magic effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.
The character choose to use dispel magic in one of three ways: a targeted dispel, an area dispel, : ...
In AD&D 2e and in 5e, interestingly Dispel Magic could also be used as a way of counterspelling.
One would be forgiven for not thinking of dispel magic as being only for spells. As far as I know, it is only specified as such in SAC and a number of first-party adventures utilize dispel magic in a context other than for ending spells. It does make me wonder if this is going to be so specifically defined in the upcoming material revision.
To be honest, it would be nice to have a Dispel Magic spell with a similar effect as in previous editions.
By the way @TexasDevin, if you remember some of those first-party adventures where Dispel Magic is used in a different context, would you mind telling me the titles?
One would be forgiven for not thinking of dispel magic as being only for spells. As far as I know, it is only specified as such in SAC and a number of first-party adventures utilize dispel magic in a context other than for ending spells. It does make me wonder if this is going to be so specifically defined in the upcoming material revision.
To be honest, it would be nice to have a Dispel Magic spell with a similar effect as in previous editions.
By the way @TexasDevin, if you remember some of those first-party adventures where Dispel Magic is used in a different context, would you mind telling me the titles?
For the sake of spoilers, I will keep these examples low on detail.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage has magical effects on nearly every level that can be ended with dispel magic. Many of them are illusions or transmutations that the text does not tie to any particular spell. The same is true for Icewind Dale, though this one does a better job of saying "a permanent version of X spell has been cast" in some places. Even so, there are examples, including this one, where dispel magic temporarily suppresses a magical effect that was not caused by a spell in the first place. Curse of Strahd does the same thing. Yawning Portal uses dispel magic as a way to end ongoing magical effects. Descent into Avernus also uses dispel magic like this. It can be pretty interesting to go through an adventure chapter by chapter searching for the phrase 'dispel magic' to see how the designers use the spell in ways broader than what the spell descriptions offers.
Just so we are clear, I am not using these examples to challenge the assertion that dispel magic is defined in the text as targeting a spell. It is just that the spell is too useful a tool for game designers to avoid using it outside its defined scope and, because of this, it should not be all that surprising that someone might not realize that the magical effect targeted must be caused by a spell (unless a specific situation says otherwise, as shown above).
One would be forgiven for not thinking of dispel magic as being only for spells. As far as I know, it is only specified as such in SAC and a number of first-party adventures utilize dispel magic in a context other than for ending spells. It does make me wonder if this is going to be so specifically defined in the upcoming material revision.
To be honest, it would be nice to have a Dispel Magic spell with a similar effect as in previous editions.
By the way @TexasDevin, if you remember some of those first-party adventures where Dispel Magic is used in a different context, would you mind telling me the titles?
For the sake of spoilers, I will keep these examples low on detail.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage has magical effects on nearly every level that can be ended with dispel magic. Many of them are illusions or transmutations that the text does not tie to any particular spell. The same is true for Icewind Dale, though this one does a better job of saying "a permanent version of X spell has been cast" in some places. Even so, there are examples, including this one, where dispel magic temporarily suppresses a magical effect that was not caused by a spell in the first place. Curse of Strahd does the same thing. Yawning Portal uses dispel magic as a way to end ongoing magical effects. Descent into Avernus also uses dispel magic like this. It can be pretty interesting to go through an adventure chapter by chapter searching for the phrase 'dispel magic' to see how the designers use the spell in ways broader than what the spell descriptions offers.
Just so we are clear, I am not using these examples to challenge the assertion that dispel magic is defined in the text as targeting a spell. It is just that the spell is too useful a tool for game designers to avoid using it outside its defined scope and, because of this, it should not be all that surprising that someone might not realize that the magical effect targeted must be caused by a spell (unless a specific situation says otherwise, as shown above).
Wow, TexasDevin, you have an impressive array of examples and an amazing collection of modules and adventures. Congratulations, my friend.
I don't have access to all that content. I only purchased Waterdeep: Dragon Heist for now. After reading your answer, I searched for "dispel magic" and, oh god, I found a lot of uses without specifying a spell listed in the official rules :-/
(WARNING - spoilers ahead!)
Only five examples:
... The collapsed eastern end of the underground level is actually an illusion that conceals an intact ... The characters can walk right through the illusion, which has no substance, and a dispel magic spell destroys it.
The ghostly eyestalk is a magical sensor ... to monitor this hall ... The eyestalk can't be damaged but is destroyed by a dispel magic spell.
The magic of the pentagram can also be dispelled (DC 15)
When the door is opened, clouds of steam billow out from the area beyond. This steam is created magically and can be dispelled with a successful casting of dispel magic
(this is truly wonderful) The rune can't be dispelled normally, but each successful dispel magic cast on it (DC 19) deals 16 (3d10) force damage to it
(and more!)
I also found an example where Dispel Magic is used to disarm a trap, but I recall this usage is officially mentioned in DMG p. 120-121 (Disabling Traps).
What a surprise for me! This changes my world :-( because it seems that the SAC and even RAW are misleading :-(
While a druid is in their wild shape form (i.e. a bear), can they can be "detected" with a Detect Magic spell or can they be forced back into their non-animal form with a Dispel Magic?
Since Wild Shape states it is magical, it can be detected by Detect Magic.
Dispel Magic only works on spells, Wild Shape is not a spell, so Dispel Magic has no effect.
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ok. Thanks. I will have to figure out a more creative way to hide/sneak around while in wild shape.
Anti magic fields would dispel wild shape too I believe?
Watch me on twitch
No, but they'll surpress the effect (they're go back into the wild shape when they leave the field if still within wildshape duration).
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Great. Thanks.
Well, most people won't be using detect magic all the time anyway, but bear in mind that detect magic doesn't tell you where the magic is -- you can only spot auras around creatures you can already see. Thus, opponents who don't spot you will just be aware of the presence of magic. The easy solution is to find a wizard to cast Arcanist's Magic Aura on you (that spell, incidentally, has the logical consequence of making detect magic totally useless for detecting long term magic traps, since casting a second level spell every day for 30 days is not a dire expense).
Thanks. I like to wild shape into a rat, cat, or crow (they are everywhere in cities) and recon an area or just listen in on conversations. Suddenly, there were creatures casting detect magic everywhere and discovering me or they had Gems of Seeing (a very popular item for paranoid nobles, btw). Spending time in a jail or dungeon and having to be rescued or ransomed is not a lot of fun and can get expensive. I think the DM got tired of me doing that get information, either that or the people in the town/city/castle were really paranoid about shapeshifters. I vote for the paranoid people. I would never accuse a DM of making it difficult ...
That’s just “subtle” DM code for: “don’t expect the same trick to work every single time”
Watch me on twitch
That's DM code for I know you could do that with ease, but I don't like it when you're right.
I found this answer reading about using Dispel Magic against Wild Shape or polymorphed creatures, and I'd like to mention a similar question was answered in Sage Advice Compendium.
Also, this is an interesting entry to read: Gold dragon change shape vs dispel magic
One would be forgiven for not thinking of dispel magic as being only for spells. As far as I know, it is only specified as such in SAC and a number of first-party adventures utilize dispel magic in a context other than for ending spells. It does make me wonder if this is going to be so specifically defined in the upcoming material revision.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It's specified in the text of Dispel Magic. I'm not sure how you would interpret that as affecting anything that isn't a spell. It can target non-spells, but what it does is end spells on the target.
Well, the existence of this thread, for example.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Evidence that people don't read the full text of a spell?
There's nothing ambiguous there, though the wording is clonky because it's intuitive to think of dispel magic targeting a spell, not the subject of a spell, and so if you only read the first sentence you might decide it can dispel a magical effect other than a spell (it can target a magical effect other than a spell... and then removes any spells on that effect).
I'm honestly not even sure what we're talking about at this point. I don't need you to make the case to me that dispel magic is meant for spells. Aside from offering some kind words to the OP for making a very understandable and common misunderstanding about the purpose of the spell, I really don't have much else to add to the thread. I didn't think my post really required a response in the first place.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I agree that the text of the 5E version of the spell is very clear that dispel magic works only against spells....but anyone who's played previous versions might understandably think otherwise. As far back as 1E, dispel magic had much wider usage, including suppressing magic items and turning potions to mundane liquid.
That's true, for example in AD&D 2e, we have something like this (emphasis mine):
It was more "complex" in some way.
In DnD 3e, not exactly the same but also broader than 5e (emphasis mine):
In AD&D 2e and in 5e, interestingly Dispel Magic could also be used as a way of counterspelling.
To be honest, it would be nice to have a Dispel Magic spell with a similar effect as in previous editions.
By the way @TexasDevin, if you remember some of those first-party adventures where Dispel Magic is used in a different context, would you mind telling me the titles?
For the sake of spoilers, I will keep these examples low on detail.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage has magical effects on nearly every level that can be ended with dispel magic. Many of them are illusions or transmutations that the text does not tie to any particular spell. The same is true for Icewind Dale, though this one does a better job of saying "a permanent version of X spell has been cast" in some places. Even so, there are examples, including this one, where dispel magic temporarily suppresses a magical effect that was not caused by a spell in the first place. Curse of Strahd does the same thing. Yawning Portal uses dispel magic as a way to end ongoing magical effects. Descent into Avernus also uses dispel magic like this. It can be pretty interesting to go through an adventure chapter by chapter searching for the phrase 'dispel magic' to see how the designers use the spell in ways broader than what the spell descriptions offers.
Just so we are clear, I am not using these examples to challenge the assertion that dispel magic is defined in the text as targeting a spell. It is just that the spell is too useful a tool for game designers to avoid using it outside its defined scope and, because of this, it should not be all that surprising that someone might not realize that the magical effect targeted must be caused by a spell (unless a specific situation says otherwise, as shown above).
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Wow, TexasDevin, you have an impressive array of examples and an amazing collection of modules and adventures. Congratulations, my friend.
I don't have access to all that content. I only purchased Waterdeep: Dragon Heist for now. After reading your answer, I searched for "dispel magic" and, oh god, I found a lot of uses without specifying a spell listed in the official rules :-/
(WARNING - spoilers ahead!)
Only five examples:
(and more!)
I also found an example where Dispel Magic is used to disarm a trap, but I recall this usage is officially mentioned in DMG p. 120-121 (Disabling Traps).
What a surprise for me! This changes my world :-( because it seems that the SAC and even RAW are misleading :-(