Does it give all attack advantage in the turn or just the 1st one? For example, a hunter attack from hiding with Horde Breaker and extra attack. Do all three attacks have an advantage?
Does it give all attack advantage in the turn or just the 1st one? For example, a hunter attack from hiding with Horde Breaker and extra attack. Do all three attacks have an advantage?
It’s a good idea to read all of the sections that you have questions on. For example, reading about Hide it quickly links you to the other section on unseen targets and at the bottom of that...
”If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.”
So one attack gets advantage.
However, if you have the Skulker Feat, a ranged attack miss will not give away your location and you would get advantage on the second attack.
How about "Volley"? It says "You can use your action to make a ranged attack against any number of creatures within 10 feet of a point you can see within your weapon’s range. You must have ammunition for each target, as normal, and you make a separate attack roll for each target."
It is "make a ranged attack against any number of creatures" with "separate attack roll for each target". Does it mean all attacks have an advantage???
How about "Volley"? It says "You can use your action to make a ranged attack against any number of creatures within 10 feet of a point you can see within your weapon’s range. You must have ammunition for each target, as normal, and you make a separate attack roll for each target."
It is "make a ranged attack against any number of creatures" with "separate attack roll for each target". Does it mean all attacks have an advantage???
”If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.”
Are you making one attack at multiple targets, or multiple attacks each at a different target?
The key to this is whether you make one attack roll or multiple.
Also, Volley is not an attack - it’s an Action, that results in attacks.
I would guess it all has an advantage since Volly is making one attack at multiple targets. However, I am not sure. Please let me know the answer.
If I know the answer, I won't ask in the 1st place.
Volley is not an Attack. It’s an Action that allows you to make multiple attack rolls.
What do you think after you make “an attack roll” at your first target? Are you still hidden?
Edit: I asked before whether Volley allows one attack roll or multiple attack rolls and you even bolded the part that said “a separate attack roll for each target”... and you still considered it a single attack.
Becoming better at reasoning through your question will help you ask fewer questions, that’s why I’m not saying the answer explicitly.
I'd give advantage to your entire round of attacks attack action after you pop out of hiding, myself, though I see Brewsky's point that one attack->no longer hidden->no more advantage. Probably a good question to put to your DM.
I'd give advantage to your entire round of attacks attack action after you pop out of hiding, myself, though I see Brewsky's point that one attack->no longer hidden->no more advantage. Probably a good question to put to your DM.
Becoming better at reasoning through your question will help you ask fewer questions, that’s why I’m not saying the answer explicitly.
I agree with this completely.
Edit: I asked before whether Volley allows one attack roll or multiple attack rolls and you even bolded the part that said “a separate attack roll for each target”... and you still considered it a single attack.
I was thinking a single attack that hit multiple targets simultaneously. It is kinds like a fireball spell. A single cast but hit multiple targets at the same time. I imagine Volly is something like the multishot from Diablo 2 which is a single firing but multiple arrows. That is why I said all attacks have advantage since it is a single fire.
Now based on your answer, it is more like Strafe from Diablo 2 which is a rapid-firing single arrow and hit the targets subsequently. In this case, it is only the 1st attack that has an advantage.
Becoming better at reasoning through your question will help you ask fewer questions, that’s why I’m not saying the answer explicitly.
I agree with this completely.
Edit: I asked before whether Volley allows one attack roll or multiple attack rolls and you even bolded the part that said “a separate attack roll for each target”... and you still considered it a single attack.
I was thinking a single attack that hit multiple targets simultaneously. It is kinds like a fireball spell. A single cast but hit multiple targets at the same time. I imagine Volly is something like the multishot from Diablo 2 which is a single firing but multiple arrows. That is why I said all attacks have advantage since it is a single fire.
Now based on your answer, it is more like Strafe from Diablo 2 which is a rapid-firing single arrow and hit the targets subsequently. In this case, it is only the 1st attack that has an advantage.
I would rule that Volley is a single attack, all made with advantage if made from hiding. The separate attack rolls represent each arrow, but the common definition of “volley” in regards to archery, and the wording of the ability using “attack” in the singular would lead me towards it just being a single attack that strikes each target simultaneously (like magic missile, except with arrows, and you can miss).
for normal attacks, I would agree that only the first attack in a multi attack from hiding gets the advantage, as those are clearly sequential
I would rule that Volley is a single attack, all made with advantage if made from hiding. The separate attack rolls represent each arrow, but the common definition of “volley” in regards to archery, and the wording of the ability using “attack” in the singular would lead me towards it just being a single attack that strikes each target simultaneously (like magic missile, except with arrows, and you can miss).
for normal attacks, I would agree that only the first attack in a multi attack from hiding gets the advantage, as those are clearly sequential
While I agree you can homebrew anything, the problem with this is this makes a Dex Ranger with Volley absolutely devestating to the game balance. Convert over to rogue levels for Cunning Action and you’re talking an insane amount of crits per round. Add in Elven Accuracy and Mask of the Wild... and 3 levels of Champion... you’re looking at 26% chance of critting literally each and every target in a 20ft diameter area EVERY round.
It sounds cool to visualize, but it’ll make Volley preclude every other ability.
Is it really that powerful? Sneak Attack is only one target per turn.
Beside, Ranger can use Vanish Hide as a bonus action without multiclass into Rogue after level 14.
The sneak attack isn’t the issue, it’s that you have an area attack that will do a ton of damage that will preclude any other attack. Consider...
If you hit at least two targets while hidden, you will crit at least once 18.6% of the time. 26.5% with 3 targets. 33% with 4. With a longbow against 2-4 targets, that’ll up your damage considerably every round.
Now with Elven Accuracy...
2 targets: 26.5% chance of at least 1 crit.
3 targets: 37% chance of at least 1 crit.
4 targets: 46% chance of at least 1 crit.
With Elven Accuracy and Champion 3 crit range...
2 targets: 46.9% chance of at least 1 crit.
3 targets: 61.3% chance of at least 1 crit. 16.1% chance of 2 crits.
4 targets: 81.7% chance of at least 1 crit. 23.4% chance of 2 crits. 5.8% chance of 3 crits.
Is it really that powerful? Sneak Attack is only one target per turn.
Beside, Ranger can use Vanish Hide as a bonus action without multiclass into Rogue after level 14.
The sneak attack isn’t the issue, it’s that you have an area attack that will do a ton of damage that will preclude any other attack. Consider...
If you hit at least two targets while hidden, you will crit at least once 18.6% of the time. 26.5% with 3 targets. 33% with 4. With a longbow against 2-4 targets, that’ll up your damage considerably every round.
Now with Elven Accuracy...
2 targets: 26.5% chance of at least 1 crit.
3 targets: 37% chance of at least 1 crit.
4 targets: 46% chance of at least 1 crit.
With Elven Accuracy and Champion 3 crit range...
2 targets: 46.9% chance of at least 1 crit.
3 targets: 61.3% chance of at least 1 crit. 16.1% chance of 2 crits.
4 targets: 81.7% chance of at least 1 crit. 23.4% chance of 2 crits. 5.8% chance of 3 crits.
Other Max builds are just as devastating, and as chicken said, it’s like four extra damage per hit in a crit. This is basically Ranger fireball, with similar damage potential (less when upscaling). Plus, if you wanted the advantage, you could only attack every other round as you would have to hide again
Other Max builds are just as devastating, and as chicken said, it’s like four extra damage per hit in a crit. This is basically Ranger fireball, with similar damage potential (less when upscaling). Plus, if you wanted the advantage, you could only attack every other round as you would have to hide again
More false information.
Rangers get Vanish for bonus action Hide, and multiclass combinations have to be taken into effect.
This also ups the damage potential more than critical hits alone because you’re attack 2-4 times PER TURN at advantage. Its not “fireball” - it’s far worse.
One example. 11 Ranger (Hunter)/2 Rogue. Sharpshooter, Archery, +5 Dex, Attack Bonus +12, regular longbow vs AC 16. Using Sneak on the primary target, hiding each round as a bonus action. Very standard.
With 2 Longbow strikes per turn, 1st attack is at advantage. 93.6% chance of hitting first attack, 14.26% chance of critical damage. Damage is 1d8+15+2d6 = 26.5. Crit damage is an extra 11.5. Weighted damage is 24.804+1.64=26.2.
2nd attack is normal. 60% chance of hit, 5% chance of crit. Damage is 1d8+15 = 19.5. Crit damage is 4.5. Weighted damage is 11.7+0.225=11.925.
Total damage output is 38.5.
But let’s start adding every additional attack as an Elven Accuracy strike instead (93.6% chance of hitting, 14.26% chance of crit). Now weighted damage is 18.89.
Total damage output against two targets is 51.9.
Three targets is 70.7. Four targets is 89.6.
Its multiplicative. This isn’t just “crit 1d8” extra, it’s Advantage on every single target in that area and crits on top of that.
The Hunter is one of the best archetypes in the game, it certainly does not need cheesy garbage like advantage on every roll for Volley or Whirlwind.
There's a lot of "what-if" going on here, but RAW the answer is that only the first attack roll would get advantage.
The rules for Unseen Attackers and Targets state that "when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." It does not say when you take the Attack action. Taking the Attack action allows you to make an attack, but they are still distinct things; this is why the Extra Attack class feature allows you to make two attacks as part of one Attack action. Any time you roll to hit (that is, rolling a d20 + modifiers against a target's AC) you are making an attack, and doing so ends being hidden.
In the case of Volley, you are able to make many attack rolls as part of one Volley action, but only the first will have advantage; after that, you are no longer hidden.
What is an “Elven Accuracy strike”? For having so much math, your post is surprisingly hard to understand what you’re talking about.
So a Volley does 1d8+15 to two or three critters in a clump, plus 2d6 sneak against one of them. So 20ish to two, 28ish to the third. 68ish total for your action. That’s pretty decent damage potential, though do note that all the DM has to do is move them the next round to drop you down to two attacks, 48ish. Hitting on 9’s+ vs AC 16, you’ve got a 60% hit rate, so call that 40ish for a volley, 30ish for a normal two-attack attack action. Imagining Volleys with more than three targets isn’t common enough to be practical.
Advantage+EA on all these attacks bumps your 60% hit rate up to like a 90% hit rate, 65ish Volley, 45ish regular attack action.
Critting on the SA strike only adds like 11 damage to it, critting on normal hits only adds like 4. Your advantage+EA chance to crit is like 15%, up from 5%. Hardly worth even mentioning, that % basically adds like average 2 damage to a Volley round.
For a level 17+ character who has invested two feats, this doesn’t feel that strong. It’s fine, but “devastating?” No. Even ignoring that it must be able to find something to hide in each round, will likely be firing into partial cover for some or all of its attacks, can be negated by enemy positioning or as the number of combatants shrink, loses all its advantage if crowded by enemies in melee...
it’s just a normal Ranger, with three Rogue levels. *Yawn*
Hide can give attack advantage.
Does it give all attack advantage in the turn or just the 1st one? For example, a hunter attack from hiding with Horde Breaker and extra attack. Do all three attacks have an advantage?
It’s a good idea to read all of the sections that you have questions on. For example, reading about Hide it quickly links you to the other section on unseen targets and at the bottom of that...
”If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.”
So one attack gets advantage.
However, if you have the Skulker Feat, a ranged attack miss will not give away your location and you would get advantage on the second attack.
Thanks for the answer.
How about "Volley"? It says "You can use your action to make a ranged attack against any number of creatures within 10 feet of a point you can see within your weapon’s range. You must have ammunition for each target, as normal, and you make a separate attack roll for each target."
It is "make a ranged attack against any number of creatures" with "separate attack roll for each target". Does it mean all attacks have an advantage???
”If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.”
Are you making one attack at multiple targets, or multiple attacks each at a different target?
The key to this is whether you make one attack roll or multiple.
Also, Volley is not an attack - it’s an Action, that results in attacks.
What’s your guess, with the info I provided?
I would guess it all has an advantage since Volly is making one attack at multiple targets. However, I am not sure. Please let me know the answer.
If I know the answer, I won't ask in the 1st place.
Volley is not an Attack. It’s an Action that allows you to make multiple attack rolls.
What do you think after you make “an attack roll” at your first target? Are you still hidden?
Edit: I asked before whether Volley allows one attack roll or multiple attack rolls and you even bolded the part that said “a separate attack roll for each target”... and you still considered it a single attack.
Becoming better at reasoning through your question will help you ask fewer questions, that’s why I’m not saying the answer explicitly.
You could also compare Extra Attack and Volley ACTIONS.
They are practically identical. Both Actions that allow multiple attacks. So that should also steer you in the right direction for an answer.
I'd give advantage to your entire
round of attacksattack action after you pop out of hiding, myself, though I see Brewsky's point that one attack->no longer hidden->no more advantage. Probably a good question to put to your DM.dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Chickeeeeeeeeeeeeen... *sigh*. Haha
I agree with this completely.
I was thinking a single attack that hit multiple targets simultaneously. It is kinds like a fireball spell. A single cast but hit multiple targets at the same time. I imagine Volly is something like the multishot from Diablo 2 which is a single firing but multiple arrows. That is why I said all attacks have advantage since it is a single fire.
Now based on your answer, it is more like Strafe from Diablo 2 which is a rapid-firing single arrow and hit the targets subsequently. In this case, it is only the 1st attack that has an advantage.
Solid reasoning!
I would rule that Volley is a single attack, all made with advantage if made from hiding. The separate attack rolls represent each arrow, but the common definition of “volley” in regards to archery, and the wording of the ability using “attack” in the singular would lead me towards it just being a single attack that strikes each target simultaneously (like magic missile, except with arrows, and you can miss).
for normal attacks, I would agree that only the first attack in a multi attack from hiding gets the advantage, as those are clearly sequential
While I agree you can homebrew anything, the problem with this is this makes a Dex Ranger with Volley absolutely devestating to the game balance. Convert over to rogue levels for Cunning Action and you’re talking an insane amount of crits per round. Add in Elven Accuracy and Mask of the Wild... and 3 levels of Champion... you’re looking at 26% chance of critting literally each and every target in a 20ft diameter area EVERY round.
It sounds cool to visualize, but it’ll make Volley preclude every other ability.
Is it really that powerful? Sneak Attack is only one target per turn.
Beside, Ranger can use
VanishHide as a bonus action without multiclass into Rogue after level 14.The sneak attack isn’t the issue, it’s that you have an area attack that will do a ton of damage that will preclude any other attack. Consider...
If you hit at least two targets while hidden, you will crit at least once 18.6% of the time. 26.5% with 3 targets. 33% with 4. With a longbow against 2-4 targets, that’ll up your damage considerably every round.
Now with Elven Accuracy...
2 targets: 26.5% chance of at least 1 crit.
3 targets: 37% chance of at least 1 crit.
4 targets: 46% chance of at least 1 crit.
With Elven Accuracy and Champion 3 crit range...
2 targets: 46.9% chance of at least 1 crit.
3 targets: 61.3% chance of at least 1 crit. 16.1% chance of 2 crits.
4 targets: 81.7% chance of at least 1 crit. 23.4% chance of 2 crits. 5.8% chance of 3 crits.
A crit with a longbow is an extra like 4 damage. *Yawn*
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Other Max builds are just as devastating, and as chicken said, it’s like four extra damage per hit in a crit. This is basically Ranger fireball, with similar damage potential (less when upscaling). Plus, if you wanted the advantage, you could only attack every other round as you would have to hide again
More false information.
Rangers get Vanish for bonus action Hide, and multiclass combinations have to be taken into effect.
This also ups the damage potential more than critical hits alone because you’re attack 2-4 times PER TURN at advantage. Its not “fireball” - it’s far worse.
One example. 11 Ranger (Hunter)/2 Rogue. Sharpshooter, Archery, +5 Dex, Attack Bonus +12, regular longbow vs AC 16. Using Sneak on the primary target, hiding each round as a bonus action. Very standard.
With 2 Longbow strikes per turn, 1st attack is at advantage. 93.6% chance of hitting first attack, 14.26% chance of critical damage. Damage is 1d8+15+2d6 = 26.5. Crit damage is an extra 11.5. Weighted damage is 24.804+1.64=26.2.
2nd attack is normal. 60% chance of hit, 5% chance of crit. Damage is 1d8+15 = 19.5. Crit damage is 4.5. Weighted damage is 11.7+0.225=11.925.
Total damage output is 38.5.
But let’s start adding every additional attack as an Elven Accuracy strike instead (93.6% chance of hitting, 14.26% chance of crit). Now weighted damage is 18.89.
Total damage output against two targets is 51.9.
Three targets is 70.7. Four targets is 89.6.
Its multiplicative. This isn’t just “crit 1d8” extra, it’s Advantage on every single target in that area and crits on top of that.
The Hunter is one of the best archetypes in the game, it certainly does not need cheesy garbage like advantage on every roll for Volley or Whirlwind.
There's a lot of "what-if" going on here, but RAW the answer is that only the first attack roll would get advantage.
The rules for Unseen Attackers and Targets state that "when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." It does not say when you take the Attack action. Taking the Attack action allows you to make an attack, but they are still distinct things; this is why the Extra Attack class feature allows you to make two attacks as part of one Attack action. Any time you roll to hit (that is, rolling a d20 + modifiers against a target's AC) you are making an attack, and doing so ends being hidden.
In the case of Volley, you are able to make many attack rolls as part of one Volley action, but only the first will have advantage; after that, you are no longer hidden.
What is an “Elven Accuracy strike”? For having so much math, your post is surprisingly hard to understand what you’re talking about.
So a Volley does 1d8+15 to two or three critters in a clump, plus 2d6 sneak against one of them. So 20ish to two, 28ish to the third. 68ish total for your action. That’s pretty decent damage potential, though do note that all the DM has to do is move them the next round to drop you down to two attacks, 48ish. Hitting on 9’s+ vs AC 16, you’ve got a 60% hit rate, so call that 40ish for a volley, 30ish for a normal two-attack attack action. Imagining Volleys with more than three targets isn’t common enough to be practical.
Advantage+EA on all these attacks bumps your 60% hit rate up to like a 90% hit rate, 65ish Volley, 45ish regular attack action.
Critting on the SA strike only adds like 11 damage to it, critting on normal hits only adds like 4. Your advantage+EA chance to crit is like 15%, up from 5%. Hardly worth even mentioning, that % basically adds like average 2 damage to a Volley round.
For a level 17+ character who has invested two feats, this doesn’t feel that strong. It’s fine, but “devastating?” No. Even ignoring that it must be able to find something to hide in each round, will likely be firing into partial cover for some or all of its attacks, can be negated by enemy positioning or as the number of combatants shrink, loses all its advantage if crowded by enemies in melee...
it’s just a normal Ranger, with three Rogue levels. *Yawn*
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.