Anyone can wield a shield if you've got a free hand. There's some penalties involved if you're not proficient with shields. See Player's Handbook (or Basic Rules) chapter 5:
Armor Proficiency. Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor's use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells.
Daggers have the Thrown property, so you can make a ranged attack with them by throwing them without having to treat it as an improvised weapon. Also from chapter 5:
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property.
There's a penalty for attacking with a weapon you're not proficient with (you don't add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll) but every official class is proficient with daggers.
You could throw the dagger, and then draw the rapier with the same hand. If the DM permits it... it's kind of a grey area.
I had thought about that. I was using two weapons fighting so I had thought I could actually draw and toss the dagger, but having a shield seems to troublesome. I am sure I could come up with some In game RP reason for it. Because once I toss the a dagger I would now get the benefit from one handed weapon and duelist.
You could throw the dagger, and then draw the rapier with the same hand. If the DM permits it... it's kind of a grey area.
I had thought about that. I was using two weapons fighting so I had thought I could actually draw and toss the dagger, but having a shield seems to troublesome. I am sure I could come up with some In game RP reason for it. Because once I toss the a dagger I would now get the benefit from one handed weapon and duelist.
If you're going by the rules, your arm can use a shield or a weapon, but not both. If you're planning on being a two-weapon fighter, you'll be doing so without a shield. The exception would be if you had an Animated Shield(from the Magic Item list in the DMG) or similar magic item. Once you spend your Bonus Action to activate it, you could dual-wield on subsequent turns while still gaining the benefit of the shield.
You could throw the dagger, and then draw the rapier with the same hand. If the DM permits it... it's kind of a grey area.
This feels like the best course of action. For best results, start the round with the dagger in hand.
Keep in mind though that this isn't two weapon fighting. You would need the extra attack feature to make the attack with the rapier after throwing the dagger.
Two weapon fighting requires using a weapon in your other hand after making an attack using the attack action with a weapon held in one of your hands. It also requires that both weapons be in hand when you take the Attack action.
If you are planning on being a Two Weapon Fighting-specialist, then Dual Wielder may be a worthwhile feat to include in your build. It doesn't necessarily add as much value to a character that wants to wield a Rapier and Dagger instead of two Rapiers.... but it does give you a +1 AC Bonus for holding two melee weapons, which is like a mini-Shield. Depending on how your DM interprets "draw two weapons when you would normally be able to draw only one," it may also open up your ability to start throwing more than one dagger per round, which the free object interaction rules ordinarily get in the way of.
But as stated above, don't try holding something in the same hand that is wearing a Shield, that's a no.
If you are planning on being a Two Weapon Fighting-specialist, then Dual Wielder may be a worthwhile feat to include in your build. It doesn't necessarily add as much value to a character that wants to wield a Rapier and Dagger instead of two Rapiers.... but it does give you a +1 AC Bonus for holding two melee weapons, which is like a mini-Shield. Depending on how your DM interprets "draw two weapons when you would normally be able to draw only one," it may also open up your ability to start throwing more than one dagger per round, which the free object interaction rules ordinarily get in the way of.
But as stated above, don't try holding something in the same hand that is wearing a Shield, that's a no.
In terms of damage output, the Dual Wielder feat adds very little in terms of base weapon damage. The average damage of a d6 weapon like a shortsword is only 1 less than the average for a d8 weapon like a longsword. But it definitely gives you flexibility in terms of what weapons you can use, which may come in handy when magic weapons start showing up in treasure hauls.
I never said anything about TWF. I was answering the question from the original post.
Sorry. The OP clarified in the third post that he was talking about dual wielding the dagger in the hand holding the shield with the rapier in the other hand.
"I guess I should have said using the same hand. You would have rapier in the other hand. "
Your suggestion works fine if you have extra attack but the OP was asking about TWF where it wouldn't work. I just clarified that.
with throwing weapon fighting style you get to draw throwing weapons as part of attack action, so if you get it, after throwing a dagger (or more if you have extra attack feature) you can still draw your rapier. Similarly same works for stregth themed fighter as well(throw javelins or axes then draw your melee weapon). It is not gray at all, as long as you have the required fighting style, which you can get with a level in fighter, since you'll get +2 damage to i kinda think it's worth for some builds, or at least thematic enough to make it viable. 3 levels of monk for kensei 1d4 extra damage perhaps, 2 ac is cool too, and you are getting flurry of blows option for up close and personal situations which is not bad too, still i would rarely go monk way. Shadow touched feat for hunters mark is cool for throwing builds (especially if you are not getting ranger levels for gloom stalker features). But probably i would simply go for level 2 fighter, for both style and action surge then go for a rogue archetype(probably either assasin for evil or scout for good), another level of fighter or a level of twilight cleric probably beats elusive... So either 3 fighter/17 rogue or 1 cleric/2 fighter/17 rogue. If you are assasin rather than scout cleric of war kinda works too but i think it is inferior, for a more thematic approach priest of trickery might works as well.
So rapier and dagger thing cleared, as for shield you can even don or doff shield with free action if you have shield training feat from UA, but i think that is not the question here. Shortly you need fighting style. 1d4+2 can beat handcrossbow builds, as you can not have shields in handcrossbow builds(even if you have shield training feat to don shield at the end of the turn it will cause complications at the end of second turn), so your rapier, shield, throwing dagger build is perfectly viable with simply having a fighting style.
with throwing weapon fighting style you get to draw throwing weapons as part of attack action, so if you get it, after throwing a dagger (or more if you have extra attack feature) you can still draw your rapier. Similarly same works for stregth themed fighter as well(throw javelins or axes then draw your melee weapon). It is not gray at all, as long as you have the required fighting style, which you can get with a level in fighter, since you'll get +2 damage to i kinda think it's worth for some builds, or at least thematic enough to make it viable. 3 levels of monk for kensei 1d4 extra damage perhaps, 2 ac is cool too, and you are getting flurry of blows option for up close and personal situations which is not bad too, still i would rarely go monk way. Shadow touched feat for hunters mark is cool for throwing builds (especially if you are not getting ranger levels for gloom stalker features). But probably i would simply go for level 2 fighter, for both style and action surge then go for a rogue archetype(probably either assasin for evil or scout for good), another level of fighter or a level of twilight cleric probably beats elusive... So either 3 fighter/17 rogue or 1 cleric/2 fighter/17 rogue. If you are assasin rather than scout cleric of war kinda works too but i think it is inferior, for a more thematic approach priest of trickery might works as well.
So rapier and dagger thing cleared, as for shield you can even don or doff shield with free action if you have shield training feat from UA, but i think that is not the question here. Shortly you need fighting style. 1d4+2 can beat handcrossbow builds, as you can not have shields in handcrossbow builds(even if you have shield training feat to don shield at the end of the turn it will cause complications at the end of second turn), so your rapier, shield, throwing dagger build is perfectly viable with simply having a fighting style.
I feel like it is worth noting that when this thread was created all the way to post #15 Tasha's had not been published yet.
The reason the entire conversation before your post doesn't talk about the Thrown Weapon Fighting style is because it didn't exist yet.
Is it just me, or have a lot of very old threads started to get necro'd lately? Just going through all the recent posts in the RaGM forum, there are 6 where the thread was originally created years ago, one as far back as 2017
Yeah, and this kind of situation pops up more than you might imagine--where someone will respond with current information to a thread that had its time before recent books, errata, or SAC entries have changed the guidance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not all those who wander are lost"
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So can I use a shield and throw a dagger. What are the raw rules. Either for or against it? Thanks
There are no rules connecting shields and thrown weapons. If you have a hand free to wield a dagger, you can throw it.
Is there a specific scenario that you're looking to resolve?
Anyone can wield a shield if you've got a free hand. There's some penalties involved if you're not proficient with shields. See Player's Handbook (or Basic Rules) chapter 5:
Daggers have the Thrown property, so you can make a ranged attack with them by throwing them without having to treat it as an improvised weapon. Also from chapter 5:
There's a penalty for attacking with a weapon you're not proficient with (you don't add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll) but every official class is proficient with daggers.
I guess I should have said using the same hand. You would have rapier in the other hand.
A shield requires a hand to wield and so do weapons, so by the book you can't wield both in the same hand.
You could throw the dagger, and then draw the rapier with the same hand. If the DM permits it... it's kind of a grey area.
BioWizard
I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I had thought about that. I was using two weapons fighting so I had thought I could actually draw and toss the dagger, but having a shield seems to troublesome. I am sure I could come up with some In game RP reason for it. Because once I toss the a dagger I would now get the benefit from one handed weapon and duelist.
If you're going by the rules, your arm can use a shield or a weapon, but not both. If you're planning on being a two-weapon fighter, you'll be doing so without a shield. The exception would be if you had an Animated Shield(from the Magic Item list in the DMG) or similar magic item. Once you spend your Bonus Action to activate it, you could dual-wield on subsequent turns while still gaining the benefit of the shield.
This feels like the best course of action. For best results, start the round with the dagger in hand.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Keep in mind though that this isn't two weapon fighting. You would need the extra attack feature to make the attack with the rapier after throwing the dagger.
Two weapon fighting requires using a weapon in your other hand after making an attack using the attack action with a weapon held in one of your hands. It also requires that both weapons be in hand when you take the Attack action.
I never said anything about TWF. I was answering the question from the original post.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
If you are planning on being a Two Weapon Fighting-specialist, then Dual Wielder may be a worthwhile feat to include in your build. It doesn't necessarily add as much value to a character that wants to wield a Rapier and Dagger instead of two Rapiers.... but it does give you a +1 AC Bonus for holding two melee weapons, which is like a mini-Shield. Depending on how your DM interprets "draw two weapons when you would normally be able to draw only one," it may also open up your ability to start throwing more than one dagger per round, which the free object interaction rules ordinarily get in the way of.
But as stated above, don't try holding something in the same hand that is wearing a Shield, that's a no.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
In terms of damage output, the Dual Wielder feat adds very little in terms of base weapon damage. The average damage of a d6 weapon like a shortsword is only 1 less than the average for a d8 weapon like a longsword. But it definitely gives you flexibility in terms of what weapons you can use, which may come in handy when magic weapons start showing up in treasure hauls.
Sorry. The OP clarified in the third post that he was talking about dual wielding the dagger in the hand holding the shield with the rapier in the other hand.
"I guess I should have said using the same hand. You would have rapier in the other hand. "
Your suggestion works fine if you have extra attack but the OP was asking about TWF where it wouldn't work. I just clarified that.
That's my bad. I didn't see where the OP asked about TWF later on.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
with throwing weapon fighting style you get to draw throwing weapons as part of attack action, so if you get it, after throwing a dagger (or more if you have extra attack feature) you can still draw your rapier. Similarly same works for stregth themed fighter as well(throw javelins or axes then draw your melee weapon). It is not gray at all, as long as you have the required fighting style, which you can get with a level in fighter, since you'll get +2 damage to i kinda think it's worth for some builds, or at least thematic enough to make it viable. 3 levels of monk for kensei 1d4 extra damage perhaps, 2 ac is cool too, and you are getting flurry of blows option for up close and personal situations which is not bad too, still i would rarely go monk way. Shadow touched feat for hunters mark is cool for throwing builds (especially if you are not getting ranger levels for gloom stalker features). But probably i would simply go for level 2 fighter, for both style and action surge then go for a rogue archetype(probably either assasin for evil or scout for good), another level of fighter or a level of twilight cleric probably beats elusive... So either 3 fighter/17 rogue or 1 cleric/2 fighter/17 rogue. If you are assasin rather than scout cleric of war kinda works too but i think it is inferior, for a more thematic approach priest of trickery might works as well.
So rapier and dagger thing cleared, as for shield you can even don or doff shield with free action if you have shield training feat from UA, but i think that is not the question here. Shortly you need fighting style. 1d4+2 can beat handcrossbow builds, as you can not have shields in handcrossbow builds(even if you have shield training feat to don shield at the end of the turn it will cause complications at the end of second turn), so your rapier, shield, throwing dagger build is perfectly viable with simply having a fighting style.
I feel like it is worth noting that when this thread was created all the way to post #15 Tasha's had not been published yet.
The reason the entire conversation before your post doesn't talk about the Thrown Weapon Fighting style is because it didn't exist yet.
Makes sense :)
Is it just me, or have a lot of very old threads started to get necro'd lately? Just going through all the recent posts in the RaGM forum, there are 6 where the thread was originally created years ago, one as far back as 2017
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Yeah, and this kind of situation pops up more than you might imagine--where someone will respond with current information to a thread that had its time before recent books, errata, or SAC entries have changed the guidance.
"Not all those who wander are lost"