With the updated SCAG cantrips now requiring a component cost, some players are wondering whether some favorite spells can be combined—namely, booming blade and green-flame blade with shadow blade, a spooky spell from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything. Partly to answer these questions, and partly for my own amusement, I’ve put together a treatise on the value of shadow blade with relation to these cantrips. Enjoy, and please share with your friends!
You can rule however you want at your table, but per RAW BB and GFB no longer work with:
Shadow blade
Improvised weapons
Weapons that are part of armor (ie thunder gauntlets)
Twin spell metamagic
Distant spell metamagic
Spell sniper feat
And they never worked with:
Spellcasting focus (I mean seriously, even if you can cast the spell without a weapon, now you have no weapon to make the required attack with so it has no effect).
Obviously DMs can overrule any of this same as usual, but in strictly RAW scenarios like AL, they were nerfed hard.
[Edit]I forgot to mention war caster feat. Since the spells now have a range of self, you are the target of the spell, see explanation in comment 5.
Jeremy Crawford said he'd still let it work as a DM, as Shadow Blade creates a simple melee weapon, and simple melee weapons have value. Not sure what that means for AL though. I know I'll still allow it.
These cantrips should still work with the twinned spell metamagic, though. Self isn’t the range, it’s the point of origin.
Point of origin is the range. Fireball for example has a range of 150 feet and an area of effect of 20 feet radius. BB/GFB now have a range of self and an area of effect of 5 feet. There is no other way of reading that range within the rules:
A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect.
If the point of origin is "self" then the target is "self" per the spellcasting rules. If that is not the intention, then they should have errata'd the spellcasting rules or not errata'd the spell's range.
And for the same reasons you can't twin/distant spell or use war caster with thunderwave, you can't with these spells anymore either.
Furthermore, clarifying point of origin outside of changing range/target rules doesn't change any rules interactions (afaik). So there was no point making that clarification unless they intended to change the way the spell's range worked (which is what they did).
You can rule however you want at your table, but per RAW BB and GFB no longer work with:
Shadow blade
Improvised weapons
Weapons that are part of armor (ie thunder gauntlets)
Twin spell metamagic
Distant spell metamagic
Spell sniper feat
And they never worked with:
Spellcasting focus (I mean seriously, even if you can cast the spell without a weapon, now you have no weapon to make the required attack with so it has no effect).
Obviously DMs can overrule any of this same as usual, but in strictly RAW scenarios like AL, they were nerfed hard.
[Edit]I forgot to mention war caster feat. Since the spells now have a range of self, you are the target of the spell, see explanation in comment 5.
Was looking up something with regards to this and saw someone post this on Facebook with regards to BB, and I would agree with that assessment, to quote.
"Actually, it does work with improvised weapon, as long as that weapon as a value above 1sp. Such as the silver plate you pick up and strike someone with."
Basically if the item in question has a value above 1sp that you are using as the weapon, then I would say it does. Of course those bar fights would be useless because I doubt such a bar fight is going to start up in some upper class tavern where they are drinking out of mugs and eating with silverware off plates that is above 1sp each, unless your the one that instigated it to start with.
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Hello gamers!
With the updated SCAG cantrips now requiring a component cost, some players are wondering whether some favorite spells can be combined—namely, booming blade and green-flame blade with shadow blade, a spooky spell from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything. Partly to answer these questions, and partly for my own amusement, I’ve put together a treatise on the value of shadow blade with relation to these cantrips. Enjoy, and please share with your friends!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11TdjcbnT9L0PlBCIvA9U8Ysfe24-RXwf_uJDCu1q9fo/edit
You can rule however you want at your table, but per RAW BB and GFB no longer work with:
And they never worked with:
Obviously DMs can overrule any of this same as usual, but in strictly RAW scenarios like AL, they were nerfed hard.
[Edit]I forgot to mention war caster feat. Since the spells now have a range of self, you are the target of the spell, see explanation in comment 5.
True, in AL your shadow blade is probably sunk. I think at any table that has room for common sense, though, there’s room for debate.
These cantrips should still work with the twinned spell metamagic, though. Self isn’t the range, it’s the point of origin.
I never saw these cantrips used with spellcasting foci, but I can’t think of any other design reason to add such a small cost to the component weapon.
Jeremy Crawford said he'd still let it work as a DM, as Shadow Blade creates a simple melee weapon, and simple melee weapons have value. Not sure what that means for AL though. I know I'll still allow it.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2020/11/18/does-the-monetary-value-of-the-component-now-negate-being-able-to-use-your-pact-of-the-blade-weapon-or-shadow-blade-in-conjunction-with-booming-blade/
Point of origin is the range. Fireball for example has a range of 150 feet and an area of effect of 20 feet radius. BB/GFB now have a range of self and an area of effect of 5 feet. There is no other way of reading that range within the rules:
If the point of origin is "self" then the target is "self" per the spellcasting rules. If that is not the intention, then they should have errata'd the spellcasting rules or not errata'd the spell's range.
And for the same reasons you can't twin/distant spell or use war caster with thunderwave, you can't with these spells anymore either.
Furthermore, clarifying point of origin outside of changing range/target rules doesn't change any rules interactions (afaik). So there was no point making that clarification unless they intended to change the way the spell's range worked (which is what they did).
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Was looking up something with regards to this and saw someone post this on Facebook with regards to BB, and I would agree with that assessment, to quote.
"Actually, it does work with improvised weapon, as long as that weapon as a value above 1sp. Such as the silver plate you pick up and strike someone with."
Basically if the item in question has a value above 1sp that you are using as the weapon, then I would say it does. Of course those bar fights would be useless because I doubt such a bar fight is going to start up in some upper class tavern where they are drinking out of mugs and eating with silverware off plates that is above 1sp each, unless your the one that instigated it to start with.