I don't love the neothelid lore; the AD&D2 Illithiad doesn't address the neothelid well, and it has just been accepted canon since. Like a lot of authors who draw inspiration from Lovecraft and his ilk, Bruce Cordell loves a good weird science mystery, but they are frankly terrible for official RPG lore. Dungeon masters need to have a complete understanding of how something works, then THEY can decide if they want it to be mysterious to their players.
That being said, the neothelid leaves me with the impression that the illithid is a species that was designed for purpose.
When a parasite fails to find a host, it dies; it does not mutate into a giant form of its larval stage. That's extremely counterintuitive. The neothelid transformation strongly suggests one of two things to me, as a geneticist: either someone wanted to encourage the mind flayers to find a host for every last tadpole and created a monster to ensure they did, or someone did a very sloppy job cleaning up the loose ends of illithid biology in the laboratory. It smacks of a cancerous, out-of-control development, rather than an intended outcome.
It's possible that the mind flayer is the result of an environmental interruption to the "natural" neothelid life cycle (specifically, being placed in a living brain), though it asks a lot of questions. It implies that the brain is actually a less desirable environment for the tadpole's development, forcing it down a very different developmental pathway. This means mind flayers aren't really parasites or symbionts at all, but a sort of... graft? And it makes the elder brain difficult to understand. If illithids are not meant to inhabit brains, why is the elder brain so powerful and why its its creation so sought after by illithid colonies?
I absolutely love where you went with this, it made me think a little more deeply!! Great reasoning DMZ2112
From a Lovecraftian approach I would assume, the Neothelid is an abomination that was brought into the world by someone who possibly wanted to destroy it or as a yin/yang cycle, and any other world that it could somehow move to. Somehow it's offspring would have taken an evolutionary step away from the species by merging with another. And life by the sure will to survive has created the Mind Flayer society which fears it's own destruction so therefore fears the evolution to the Neothelid which would bring about destruction of whole Illithid outposts and possibly their whole societies.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
The lore says the mind flayers came from the far realm and last time I checked there weren’t any humanoids in there.
Pretty impressive that you managed to check the whole Far Realm....
The Kaorti wave at everyone from the Far realm (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kaorti) and would like to say hello to their fellow humanoids.....although I guess they are now technically humanoids with the aberration creature type as well.
Just to throw this out there, but if you don't like the idea of an Illithid society collapsing, Elderbrain dying and the tadpoles eating each other to become a Neolithid, you could always say that a Neolithid is a Purple Worm thats undergone Ceremorphosis and the Illithid use them as siege monsters. There is some fluff on Neolithids to say they can be mistaken for Purple Worms due to their colouration and size.
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I'll 100% implement it that way in my current campaign, this idea is awesome. (even if I already know that my Players will not care, that is if they don't kill the guy who'd tell them that...)
However, reading into it more, it seems like it should be the other way around.
I think you're perfectly correct. The mind flayer reproductive cycle is waaayyyy too convoluted and bizarre to be what mother nature intended.
No, once upon a time, there was a little natural predator - the neothelid - that swam in the primodial ooze of Illithiworld. It did it's thing, swimming, eating. There were other creatures keeping it in check, and if one grew too large, it would require more food than it's environment could provide. So ... the simple magic of natural balance.
And then something radical happened. Something that wasn't intended. Some poor creature - a sapient either from somewhere else, or a land dweller of Illithiworld, fell into the primordial ooze. And by horrific and tragic accident, some unexpected spontaneus symbiosis happened: The two creatures became one.
Eventually, the rising mind flayer race cleansed their planet of the neothelids, keeping only those from which they reproduced. However, occasionally, accidents do happen.
Maybe we could expand slightly on it and say that .... all the tadpoles are male, drones maybe, and only the occasional female illutharid is allowed to live - to breed new male tadpoles, and eventually produce an elder brain.
Point is, there's a natural breeding cycle that only results in little leech like critters, and the mind flayers are an abomination of nature that still somehow breeds true.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
However, reading into it more, it seems like it should be the other way around.
I think you're perfectly correct. The mind flayer reproductive cycle is waaayyyy too convoluted and bizarre to be what mother nature intended.
No, once upon a time, there was a little natural predator - the neothelid - that swam in the primodial ooze of Illithiworld. It did it's thing, swimming, eating. There were other creatures keeping it in check, and if one grew too large, it would require more food than it's environment could provide. So ... the simple magic of natural balance.
And then something radical happened. Something that wasn't intended. Some poor creature - a sapient either from somewhere else, or a land dweller of Illithiworld, fell into the primordial ooze. And by horrific and tragic accident, some unexpected spontaneus symbiosis happened: The two creatures became one.
Eventually, the rising mind flayer race cleansed their planet of the neothelids, keeping only those from which they reproduced. However, occasionally, accidents do happen.
Maybe we could expand slightly on it and say that .... all the tadpoles are male, drones maybe, and only the occasional female illutharid is allowed to live - to breed new male tadpoles, and eventually produce an elder brain.
Point is, there's a natural breeding cycle that only results in little leech like critters, and the mind flayers are an abomination of nature that still somehow breeds true.
Neothelids and mind flayers are both aberrations. By definition, they are not what nature intended. I think you've got the basics down, but mind flayers are genderless. They're also from the far future. I think what happens is that at some point in the future, neolithids were brought to the Prime from the Far Realms somehow. There, they began to reproduce until one day, either by accident or because someone was really, really stupid and decided to see what would happen, a neolithid larva found itself inside a humanoid host. That humanoid mutated into the first mind flayer. This naturally led to them deliberately infecting more people to create more mindflayers. This kept going, until something happened. Maybe there was a massive war and the mind flayers lost. Maybe the mind flayers successfully conquered the world but then they reached the end of the world. Whatever the reason, they used a vast amount of magic/psychic power to transport a bunch of them back in time. Now they intend to conquer the world again, but this time much earlier than the first cycle. They hate neolithids because the worms remind them of what they were and where they come from. And also because they have a habit of eating elder brains.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Neothelids and mind flayers are both aberrations. By definition, they are not what nature intended. I think you've got the basics down, but mind flayers are genderless. They're also from the far future. I think what happens is that at some point in the future, neolithids were brought to the Prime from the Far Realms somehow. There, they began to reproduce until one day, either by accident or because someone was really, really stupid and decided to see what would happen, a neolithid larva found itself inside a humanoid host. That humanoid mutated into the first mind flayer. This naturally led to them deliberately infecting more people to create more mindflayers. This kept going, until something happened. Maybe there was a massive war and the mind flayers lost. Maybe the mind flayers successfully conquered the world but then they reached the end of the world. Whatever the reason, they used a vast amount of magic/psychic power to transport a bunch of them back in time. Now they intend to conquer the world again, but this time much earlier than the first cycle. They hate neolithids because the worms remind them of what they were and where they come from. And also because they have a habit of eating elder brains.
But from the PoV of the aberrations, we're not what nature intended - right?
Anyways, yes, you make fine points. I'd say they sent back one mind flayer to kill Sarah Connor some mother before her son could defeat Skynet the mind flayer empire.
"I need your clothes, your brain and the reins to your horse!"
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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I absolutely love where you went with this, it made me think a little more deeply!! Great reasoning DMZ2112
From a Lovecraftian approach I would assume, the Neothelid is an abomination that was brought into the world by someone who possibly wanted to destroy it or as a yin/yang cycle, and any other world that it could somehow move to. Somehow it's offspring would have taken an evolutionary step away from the species by merging with another. And life by the sure will to survive has created the Mind Flayer society which fears it's own destruction so therefore fears the evolution to the Neothelid which would bring about destruction of whole Illithid outposts and possibly their whole societies.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
The lore says the mind flayers came from the far realm and last time I checked there weren’t any humanoids in there.
Pretty impressive that you managed to check the whole Far Realm....
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
The Kaorti wave at everyone from the Far realm (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kaorti) and would like to say hello to their fellow humanoids.....although I guess they are now technically humanoids with the aberration creature type as well.
Just to throw this out there, but if you don't like the idea of an Illithid society collapsing, Elderbrain dying and the tadpoles eating each other to become a Neolithid, you could always say that a Neolithid is a Purple Worm thats undergone Ceremorphosis and the Illithid use them as siege monsters. There is some fluff on Neolithids to say they can be mistaken for Purple Worms due to their colouration and size.
I'll 100% implement it that way in my current campaign, this idea is awesome.
(even if I already know that my Players will not care, that is if they don't kill the guy who'd tell them that...)
I think you're perfectly correct. The mind flayer reproductive cycle is waaayyyy too convoluted and bizarre to be what mother nature intended.
No, once upon a time, there was a little natural predator - the neothelid - that swam in the primodial ooze of Illithiworld. It did it's thing, swimming, eating. There were other creatures keeping it in check, and if one grew too large, it would require more food than it's environment could provide. So ... the simple magic of natural balance.
And then something radical happened. Something that wasn't intended. Some poor creature - a sapient either from somewhere else, or a land dweller of Illithiworld, fell into the primordial ooze. And by horrific and tragic accident, some unexpected spontaneus symbiosis happened: The two creatures became one.
Eventually, the rising mind flayer race cleansed their planet of the neothelids, keeping only those from which they reproduced. However, occasionally, accidents do happen.
Maybe we could expand slightly on it and say that .... all the tadpoles are male, drones maybe, and only the occasional female illutharid is allowed to live - to breed new male tadpoles, and eventually produce an elder brain.
Point is, there's a natural breeding cycle that only results in little leech like critters, and the mind flayers are an abomination of nature that still somehow breeds true.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Neothelids and mind flayers are both aberrations. By definition, they are not what nature intended. I think you've got the basics down, but mind flayers are genderless. They're also from the far future. I think what happens is that at some point in the future, neolithids were brought to the Prime from the Far Realms somehow. There, they began to reproduce until one day, either by accident or because someone was really, really stupid and decided to see what would happen, a neolithid larva found itself inside a humanoid host. That humanoid mutated into the first mind flayer. This naturally led to them deliberately infecting more people to create more mindflayers. This kept going, until something happened. Maybe there was a massive war and the mind flayers lost. Maybe the mind flayers successfully conquered the world but then they reached the end of the world. Whatever the reason, they used a vast amount of magic/psychic power to transport a bunch of them back in time. Now they intend to conquer the world again, but this time much earlier than the first cycle. They hate neolithids because the worms remind them of what they were and where they come from. And also because they have a habit of eating elder brains.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But from the PoV of the aberrations, we're not what nature intended - right?
Anyways, yes, you make fine points. I'd say they sent back one mind flayer to kill
Sarah Connorsome mother before her son could defeatSkynetthe mind flayer empire."I need your clothes, your brain and the reins to your horse!"
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.