Provide a link or text reference which clarifies that please.
Further I will add that Staff of Magi is a weapon and it specifically states says in the description that it applies the bonus to spell attacks while holding it.
... you just showed that you have a great example of how a +2 to weapon attack and damage rolls doesn't equate to affecting spell attacks in the Staff of the Magi. The bonus to attacks made with the staff as a weapon and the bonus to spell attack rolls are separate riders. The inclusion of the sentence about spell attack rolls getting a +2 shows that the weapon attack bonus doesn't apply if its left by itself.
This totally blows your entire argument out of the water! What this paragraph in the very text you linked states explicitly and unequivocally is that "weapon attack" is NOT the same thing as "attack with a weapon". So when WOTC says "weapon attack" they DO NOT mean "attack with a weapon"
I don't get how WoTC saying "a weapon attack means an attack with a weapon" somehow means the opposite of that statement, but ok.
Yes there absolutely is. Steel Wind Strike, and Spiritual Weapon are two examples of spells that use a weapon and make a spell attack.
They very much are not. The weapon in Steel Wind Strike is just a material component, its not being used to make the attack as a weapon, as silly as that is. Spiritual Weapon also has nothing to do with a literal weapon, not even as a spell component.
So are you going to say Bards that are using a weapon as a focus are not using the weapon for a spell attack?
Generally, no. You'd be hard pressed to find a spell attack that uses a material component that an arcane focus could stand in for.
But more specifically, still no. As we went over earlier, a +1 on a weapon only applies to weapon attacks made with that weapon unless it has the specific riders included to also extend that to spell attacks, as the Staff of the Magi demonstrates.
How far do you think it can go if you use a sling?
The only range we are given for the spell attack is the 60ft given in its description. If it said the sling's range could be substituted, then that is what RAW would say.
There is no harm in allowing it at your table (I would for fun's sake), and there might even be an implication of some different range with a sling there for rules as intended. That doesn't make it RAW though.
There is not a separate proficiency bonus for weapons. I am being pendantic when I am the one actually quoting RAW?
But there are different things that apply proficiency bonus, and for spells that is spellcasting, not weapons.
I don't get how WoTC saying "a weapon attack means an attack with a weapon" somehow means the opposite of that statement, but ok.
They specifically said a "weapon attack" and "an attack with a weapon" are not the same thing and they would use different verbiage to mean the latter. Your ENTIRE argument is an attack with a weapon means a weapon attack.
.
They very much are not. The weapon in Steel Wind Strike is just a material component, its not being used to make the attack as a weapon, as silly as that is. Spiritual Weapon also has nothing to do with a literal weapon, not even as a spell component.
They USE a weaoon. Steel Wind Strike "uses" a weapon as a material component, and you can't substitute a focus for that compontne. Spiritual Weapon IS a weapon. It is right in the description of the Spritual Weapon spell on page 278 of the PHB: "You create a floating spectral weapon"
You really need to actually read the wording in the rules. Over and over again you say things that are just patently false. Just like you said earlier the range of Magic Stone spell is 60 feet, when the range of Magic Stone is touch.
So are you going to say Bards that are using a weapon as a focus are not using the weapon for a spell attack?
Generally, no. You'd be hard pressed to find a spell attack that uses a material component that an arcane focus could stand in for.
Again READ THE RULES!
Xanathar's guide to everything page 15:
"If you're proficient with a simple or martial melee weapon, you can use it as a spell casting focus for your Bard spells"
The only range we are given for the spell attack is the 60ft given in its description.
But that is SPECIFICALLY if you throw the stone.
If it said the sling's range could be substituted, then that is what RAW would say.
If you could substitute the range for a thrown stone, it would say that. The range of the spell is touch, not 60 feet and nothing at all says or implies you can use a sling to hurl it 60 feet. NOTHING AT ALL!
You basically have 3 choices here:
1. The range is touch because that is the range of the spell
2. The range is the range of a sling, which is actually written on page 149 of the players handbook
3. Just make up a number and pull it out of thin air. That is what you need to do to suggest it goes 60 feet with a sling, because nothing, nothing at all that is written in the rules states or even suggests that is true.
You are going with option 3!
There is not a separate proficiency bonus for weapons. I am being pendantic when I am the one actually quoting RAW?
But there are different things that apply proficiency bonus, and for spells that is spellcasting, not weapons.
But there is not a weapon proficiency bonus and spell proficiency bonus and skill proficiency bonus. There is only one proficiency bonus. When someone is butchering the rules, speaking what is clearly in the rules is not pedantic.
I am still waiting on the verbiage "demonstrating" that weapon bonuses do not apply to spells when they are used as focuses or material components for casting spells. You said there is verbiage "demonstrating" that. Please provide the reference.
When I say something I generally back it up with actual rules.
Magic stone is a spell attack and the sling and the stone are the magical components. Stones you don't fire but basically drop to the ground lose the spell ability.
the spell itself says that it's a ranged spell attack and the sharpshooter is about making a ranged weapons attack. A sling might give you better range, but the spell itself is one that allows you to just throw/toss the stone. Theoretically you could stand atop a cliff, cast magic stone and drop them on people to cast the spell. You could cast it on a few pebbles and play a VERY dangerous game of "kick the can" on an unsuspecting victim.
Most of these are because the stone's damage is replaced with the spell's damage, because the stone itself is supposed t magically 'splode.
the point is, the stone is a component, the throwing/aiming/dropping/kicking is the somatic portion of the spell, and it's a spell, not a ranged attack.
Now if you don't mind, I need to craft a spell that allows me to use magic stone on toads, because an exploding toad army or at the very least being able to throw exploding toads at people sounds like a delightful evening activity...
Magic stone is a spell attack and the sling and the stone are the magical components. Stones you don't fire but basically drop to the ground lose the spell ability.
The sling is not a material component. The spell only has verbal and somatic components.
the spell itself says that it's a ranged spell attack and the sharpshooter is about making a ranged weapons attack.
Sharpshooter specifies an "attack with a weapon", not a "weapon attack" and Sage Advice has pointed out those things have different meanings.
the point is, the stone is a component, the throwing/aiming/dropping/kicking is the somatic portion of the spell, and it's a spell, not a ranged attack.
The spell, including the somatic component, can be executed up to a minute before you throw the stone. Throwng the stone is not a somatic component any more than making an illusion walk is the somatic component for silent image.
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... you just showed that you have a great example of how a +2 to weapon attack and damage rolls doesn't equate to affecting spell attacks in the Staff of the Magi. The bonus to attacks made with the staff as a weapon and the bonus to spell attack rolls are separate riders. The inclusion of the sentence about spell attack rolls getting a +2 shows that the weapon attack bonus doesn't apply if its left by itself.
I don't get how WoTC saying "a weapon attack means an attack with a weapon" somehow means the opposite of that statement, but ok.
They very much are not. The weapon in Steel Wind Strike is just a material component, its not being used to make the attack as a weapon, as silly as that is. Spiritual Weapon also has nothing to do with a literal weapon, not even as a spell component.
Generally, no. You'd be hard pressed to find a spell attack that uses a material component that an arcane focus could stand in for.
But more specifically, still no. As we went over earlier, a +1 on a weapon only applies to weapon attacks made with that weapon unless it has the specific riders included to also extend that to spell attacks, as the Staff of the Magi demonstrates.
The only range we are given for the spell attack is the 60ft given in its description. If it said the sling's range could be substituted, then that is what RAW would say.
There is no harm in allowing it at your table (I would for fun's sake), and there might even be an implication of some different range with a sling there for rules as intended. That doesn't make it RAW though.
But there are different things that apply proficiency bonus, and for spells that is spellcasting, not weapons.
They specifically said a "weapon attack" and "an attack with a weapon" are not the same thing and they would use different verbiage to mean the latter. Your ENTIRE argument is an attack with a weapon means a weapon attack.
They USE a weaoon. Steel Wind Strike "uses" a weapon as a material component, and you can't substitute a focus for that compontne. Spiritual Weapon IS a weapon. It is right in the description of the Spritual Weapon spell on page 278 of the PHB: "You create a floating spectral weapon"
You really need to actually read the wording in the rules. Over and over again you say things that are just patently false. Just like you said earlier the range of Magic Stone spell is 60 feet, when the range of Magic Stone is touch.
Again READ THE RULES!
Xanathar's guide to everything page 15:
"If you're proficient with a simple or martial melee weapon, you can use it as a spell casting focus for your Bard spells"
But that is SPECIFICALLY if you throw the stone.
If you could substitute the range for a thrown stone, it would say that. The range of the spell is touch, not 60 feet and nothing at all says or implies you can use a sling to hurl it 60 feet. NOTHING AT ALL!
You basically have 3 choices here:
1. The range is touch because that is the range of the spell
2. The range is the range of a sling, which is actually written on page 149 of the players handbook
3. Just make up a number and pull it out of thin air. That is what you need to do to suggest it goes 60 feet with a sling, because nothing, nothing at all that is written in the rules states or even suggests that is true.
You are going with option 3!
But there is not a weapon proficiency bonus and spell proficiency bonus and skill proficiency bonus. There is only one proficiency bonus. When someone is butchering the rules, speaking what is clearly in the rules is not pedantic.
I am still waiting on the verbiage "demonstrating" that weapon bonuses do not apply to spells when they are used as focuses or material components for casting spells. You said there is verbiage "demonstrating" that. Please provide the reference.
When I say something I generally back it up with actual rules.
Magic stone is a spell attack and the sling and the stone are the magical components. Stones you don't fire but basically drop to the ground lose the spell ability.
the spell itself says that it's a ranged spell attack and the sharpshooter is about making a ranged weapons attack. A sling might give you better range, but the spell itself is one that allows you to just throw/toss the stone. Theoretically you could stand atop a cliff, cast magic stone and drop them on people to cast the spell. You could cast it on a few pebbles and play a VERY dangerous game of "kick the can" on an unsuspecting victim.
Most of these are because the stone's damage is replaced with the spell's damage, because the stone itself is supposed t magically 'splode.
the point is, the stone is a component, the throwing/aiming/dropping/kicking is the somatic portion of the spell, and it's a spell, not a ranged attack.
Now if you don't mind, I need to craft a spell that allows me to use magic stone on toads, because an exploding toad army or at the very least being able to throw exploding toads at people sounds like a delightful evening activity...
The sling is not a material component. The spell only has verbal and somatic components.
Sharpshooter specifies an "attack with a weapon", not a "weapon attack" and Sage Advice has pointed out those things have different meanings.
The spell, including the somatic component, can be executed up to a minute before you throw the stone. Throwng the stone is not a somatic component any more than making an illusion walk is the somatic component for silent image.
Time has told the story on this:
and seems to be an overwhelming majority. 3:1
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Of under 100 votes, lol
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