There are three benefits to Sharpshooter. RAW you can get one of these benefits if you use a sling. Specifically, if you use it with a sling you do get the ability to add +10 damage with a -5 to the attack. You can not get this if your throw it and you never get the immunity to cover or long range benefits. I think this is 100% clear RAW.
Here is the petrinent wording from each:
Magic Stone:
You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic. You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. If thrown, it has a range of 60 feet. If someone else attacks with the pebble, that attacker adds your spellcasting ability modifier, not the attacker’s, to the attack roll. On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier. Hit or miss, the spell then ends on the stone.
Sharpshooter:
You have mastered ranged weapons and can make shots that others find impossible. You gain the following benefits:
Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half and three-quarters cover.
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If that attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
The first two benefits require a ranged "weapon attack" and this is a spell attack so it does not apply. The third part however, does not require a weapon attack, but instead requires an attack with a ranged weapon. If you are hurling a magic stone with a sling you are making a spell attack with a ranged weapon.
no one can say it's not an attack made with a ranged weapon the spell clearly say it's done with a sling.
And yet, someone (cough) has said exactly that. It's not an attack made "with" a sling in any way that is meaningful. It's an attack made with a magically embued pebble, that may or may not involve a sling as an irrelevant accessory, the presence or absence of which has no effect at all on the results of the attack
If you hurl it with a sling it is a spell attack made with a sling. While this may normally be irrelevant it is the only thing that really matters for this particular question, being meaningful does not matter when it comes to RAW, all that matters is the actual text. RAI you might have a debatable point, although RAI I think the opposite might be debatable as well.
no one can say it's not an attack made with a ranged weapon the spell clearly say it's done with a sling.
And yet, someone (cough) has said exactly that. It's not an attack made "with" a sling in any way that is meaningful. It's an attack made with a magically embued pebble, that may or may not involve a sling as an irrelevant accessory, the presence or absence of which has no effect at all on the results of the attack
If you hurl it with a sling it is a spell attack made with a sling.
If I were making an attack with a sling, my skill with a sling would matter. And yet, it doesn't
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You have mastered ranged weapons and can make shots that others find impossible. You gain the following benefits:
Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half and three-quarters cover.
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If that attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
The first two benefits require a ranged "weapon attack" and this is a spell attack so it does not apply. The third part however, does not require a weapon attack, but instead requires an attack with a ranged weapon. If you are hurling a magic stone with a sling you are making a spell attack with a ranged weapon.
And here's why it's not RAW
Magic Stone
You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic. You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. If thrown, it has a range of 60 feet. If someone else attacks with the pebble, that attacker adds your spellcasting ability modifier, not the attacker’s, to the attack roll.
The spell explicitly tells you to make the attack using a thing that is not a ranged weapon. If you happen to want to flavor the attack by adding a sling, it explicitly tells you not to resolve the attack the way you would if you were actually attacking with a sling
The next time you make a ranged weapon attack during the spell’s duration, the weapon’s ammunition, or the weapon itself if it’s a thrown weapon, transforms into a bolt of lightning. Make the attack roll as normal. The target takes 4d8 lightning damage on a hit, or half as much damage on a miss, instead of the weapon’s normal damage.
The spell explicitly tells you to make an attack with a ranged weapon, and to resolve the attack the way you would for a ranged weapon attack
The difference couldn't be clearer
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
no one can say it's not an attack made with a ranged weapon the spell clearly say it's done with a sling.
And yet, someone (cough) has said exactly that. It's not an attack made "with" a sling in any way that is meaningful. It's an attack made with a magically embued pebble, that may or may not involve a sling as an irrelevant accessory, the presence or absence of which has no effect at all on the results of the attack
If you hurl it with a sling it is a spell attack made with a sling.
If I were making an attack with a sling, my skill with a sling would matter. And yet, it doesn't
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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And yet, someone (cough) has said exactly that. It's not an attack made "with" a sling in any way that is meaningful. It's an attack made with a magically embued pebble, that may or may not involve a sling as an irrelevant accessory, the presence or absence of which has no effect at all on the results of the attack
If it involve a sling, it's an attack made with it and is all that matters for such features is basically what is needed.
It has no mechanical effect on the attack, but the question is not wether it does or not, but is when you do make the attack with a stone with a sling, and you do, does it qualifies for feature that you attack with a weapon, and it does. Wether the attack itself is statistically affected is not important because no rules mention that for an attack to be considered made with a weapon it must use it's statistics. Not when a spell say its made with a sling. Spells do what they say they do, and magic stone, do say its made with a sling.
Any comparable using other spells that make melee/ranged weapon attack as a base to refute magic stone saying spells that attack with a weapon are ranged weapon attack are pointless because magic stone, is not a ranged weapon attack, it's a ranged spell attack with a weapon, which compares to no other spells or official ruling made previous to refute it. So what RAW is left to analyze for or against it? What the spell say.
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
I'm glad you asked, I hadn't looked at it from that angle.
Sharpshooter
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
Attack Rolls section of the PHB
Proficiency Bonus.You add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll when you attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency, as well as when you attack with a spell.
Are you adding your proficiency bonus with a sling to the magic stone attack? No. So it cannot be an attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency. Therefore, no Sharpshooter. QEMFD
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
I'm glad you asked, I hadn't looked at it from that angle.
Sharpshooter
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
Attack Rolls section of the PHB
Proficiency Bonus.You add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll when you attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency, as well as when you attack with a spell.
Are you adding your proficiency bonus with a sling to the magic stone attack? No. So it cannot be an attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency. Therefore, no Sharpshooter. QEMFD
You don’t need to add your PB to the attack roll, you just need:
To be using the sling.
To be proficient with the sling.
As long as those two criteria are met, you can use SS with magic stone. It’s that simple.
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
I'm glad you asked, I hadn't looked at it from that angle.
Sharpshooter
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
Attack Rolls section of the PHB
Proficiency Bonus.You add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll when you attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency, as well as when you attack with a spell.
Are you adding your proficiency bonus with a sling to the magic stone attack? No. So it cannot be an attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency. Therefore, no Sharpshooter. QEMFD
You don’t need to add your PB to the attack roll, you just need:
To be using the sling.
To be proficient with the sling.
As long as those two criteria are met, you can use SS with magic stone. It’s that simple.
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
I'm glad you asked, I hadn't looked at it from that angle.
Sharpshooter
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
Attack Rolls section of the PHB
Proficiency Bonus.You add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll when you attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency, as well as when you attack with a spell.
Are you adding your proficiency bonus with a sling to the magic stone attack? No. So it cannot be an attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency. Therefore, no Sharpshooter. QEMFD
You don’t need to add your PB to the attack roll, you just need:
To be using the sling.
To be proficient with the sling.
As long as those two criteria are met, you can use SS with magic stone. It’s that simple.
You can only use the portion that gives a +10 to damage. The other two parts of it require a weapon attack.
Also I believe every class is proficient with a sling.
The spell explicitly tells you to make the attack using a thing that is not a ranged weapon. If you happen to want to flavor the attack by adding a sling, it explicitly tells you not to resolve the attack the way you would if you were actually attacking with a sling
Sure, but that does not mean it is not an attack with a sling. You hurl it with a sling (as it says in the spell) and you are making a ranged spell attack with a sling.
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
I'm glad you asked, I hadn't looked at it from that angle.
Sharpshooter
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
Attack Rolls section of the PHB
Proficiency Bonus.You add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll when you attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency, as well as when you attack with a spell.
Are you adding your proficiency bonus with a sling to the magic stone attack? No. So it cannot be an attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency. Therefore, no Sharpshooter. QEMFD
You don’t need to add your PB to the attack roll, you just need:
To be using the sling.
To be proficient with the sling.
As long as those two criteria are met, you can use SS with magic stone. It’s that simple.
You can only use the portion that gives a +10 to damage. The other two parts of it require a weapon attack.
Also I believe every class is proficient with a sling.
You apply it during spell casting because it’s a spell attack, not an attack with a weapon
It is “a ranged spell attack made with a ranged weapon.” It’s a special, specific case of being both a spell attack, and an attack with a ranged weapon. It’s both. And it doesn’t matter whatever general rules you want to quote at me, because specific beats general.
It’s not specific though. It doesn’t claim to be this specific unicorn of a spell.
The author of that module Magic Stone is printed in could have done so, they knew to word Flame Arrow to make magic ammunition.
Magic Stone just doesn’t say “if a sling is used the attack is a spell attack using a weapon.”
we would have to allow any tangential use of a weapon in a spell attack qualify it for riders that are “with a weapon.” Use a staff as a spell focus? That’s an attack “with a weapon.” Using a pact weapon or swords bard sword as a focus? Sneak attack on eldritch blast I guess.
we can’t just declare something that isn’t stated as being specific
It’s not specific though. It doesn’t claim to be this specific unicorn of a spell.
The author of that module Magic Stone is printed in could have done so, they knew to word Flame Arrow to make magic ammunition.
Magic Stone just doesn’t say “if a sling is used the attack is a spell attack using a weapon.”
we would have to allow any tangential use of a weapon in a spell attack qualify it for riders that are “with a weapon.” Use a staff as a spell focus? That’s an attack “with a weapon.” Using a pact weapon or swords bard sword as a focus? Sneak attack on eldritch blast I guess.
we can’t just declare something that isn’t stated as being specific
And using a weapon as a spellcasting focus to cast a spell wouldn’t qualify as “a spell attack made with a weapon” either because nowhere does it say that the attack comes from the focus, it could just as easily come from the hand holding the focus, or from your ear for that matter.
Magic stone is that specific in that it specifies a specific weapon that can be used to make the attack. And there’s other precedent too. Or would you say that an Arcane Trickster who casts green-flame blade with their rapier cannot use Sneak Attack too? That’s the case of a “melee weapon attack made with a spell” after all.
There are three benefits to Sharpshooter. RAW you can get one of these benefits if you use a sling. Specifically, if you use it with a sling you do get the ability to add +10 damage with a -5 to the attack. You can not get this if your throw it and you never get the immunity to cover or long range benefits. I think this is 100% clear RAW.
Here is the petrinent wording from each:
Magic Stone:
You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic. You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. If thrown, it has a range of 60 feet. If someone else attacks with the pebble, that attacker adds your spellcasting ability modifier, not the attacker’s, to the attack roll. On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6![]()
+ your spellcasting ability modifier. Hit or miss, the spell then ends on the stone.
Sharpshooter:
You have mastered ranged weapons and can make shots that others find impossible. You gain the following benefits:
The first two benefits require a ranged "weapon attack" and this is a spell attack so it does not apply. The third part however, does not require a weapon attack, but instead requires an attack with a ranged weapon. If you are hurling a magic stone with a sling you are making a spell attack with a ranged weapon.
If you hurl it with a sling it is a spell attack made with a sling. While this may normally be irrelevant it is the only thing that really matters for this particular question, being meaningful does not matter when it comes to RAW, all that matters is the actual text. RAI you might have a debatable point, although RAI I think the opposite might be debatable as well.
If I were making an attack with a sling, my skill with a sling would matter. And yet, it doesn't
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
And here's why it's not RAW
The spell explicitly tells you to make the attack using a thing that is not a ranged weapon. If you happen to want to flavor the attack by adding a sling, it explicitly tells you not to resolve the attack the way you would if you were actually attacking with a sling
Contrast with lightning arrow
The spell explicitly tells you to make an attack with a ranged weapon, and to resolve the attack the way you would for a ranged weapon attack
The difference couldn't be clearer
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Can you point to the rule that says your skill with a sling has to matter for your attack to be made with a sling?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
If it involve a sling, it's an attack made with it and is all that matters for such features is basically what is needed.
It has no mechanical effect on the attack, but the question is not wether it does or not, but is when you do make the attack with a stone with a sling, and you do, does it qualifies for feature that you attack with a weapon, and it does. Wether the attack itself is statistically affected is not important because no rules mention that for an attack to be considered made with a weapon it must use it's statistics. Not when a spell say its made with a sling. Spells do what they say they do, and magic stone, do say its made with a sling.
Any comparable using other spells that make melee/ranged weapon attack as a base to refute magic stone saying spells that attack with a weapon are ranged weapon attack are pointless because magic stone, is not a ranged weapon attack, it's a ranged spell attack with a weapon, which compares to no other spells or official ruling made previous to refute it. So what RAW is left to analyze for or against it? What the spell say.
I'm glad you asked, I hadn't looked at it from that angle.
Are you adding your proficiency bonus with a sling to the magic stone attack? No. So it cannot be an attack using a weapon with which you have proficiency. Therefore, no Sharpshooter. QEMFD
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You don’t need to add your PB to the attack roll, you just need:
As long as those two criteria are met, you can use SS with magic stone. It’s that simple.
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Since you already apply it during spellcasting, ''your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once.''
You apply it during spell casting because it’s a spell attack, not an attack with a weapon
^^^^^^
Blank
You can only use the portion that gives a +10 to damage. The other two parts of it require a weapon attack.
Also I believe every class is proficient with a sling.
Sure, but that does not mean it is not an attack with a sling. You hurl it with a sling (as it says in the spell) and you are making a ranged spell attack with a sling.
Yes, I’m well aware of both of those points.
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It is “a ranged spell attack made with a ranged weapon.” It’s a special, specific case of being both a spell attack, and an attack with a ranged weapon. It’s both. And it doesn’t matter whatever general rules you want to quote at me, because specific beats general.
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It’s not specific though. It doesn’t claim to be this specific unicorn of a spell.
The author of that module Magic Stone is printed in could have done so, they knew to word Flame Arrow to make magic ammunition.
Magic Stone just doesn’t say “if a sling is used the attack is a spell attack using a weapon.”
we would have to allow any tangential use of a weapon in a spell attack qualify it for riders that are “with a weapon.” Use a staff as a spell focus? That’s an attack “with a weapon.” Using a pact weapon or swords bard sword as a focus? Sneak attack on eldritch blast I guess.
we can’t just declare something that isn’t stated as being specific
If you cast a spell attack with a staff, is it “an attack with a weapon”?
Not technically, no. A staff is a piece of adventuring gear that can coincidentally be used as a quarterstaff, but it’s not listed under “weapons.”
And using a weapon as a spellcasting focus to cast a spell wouldn’t qualify as “a spell attack made with a weapon” either because nowhere does it say that the attack comes from the focus, it could just as easily come from the hand holding the focus, or from your ear for that matter.
Magic stone is that specific in that it specifies a specific weapon that can be used to make the attack. And there’s other precedent too. Or would you say that an Arcane Trickster who casts green-flame blade with their rapier cannot use Sneak Attack too? That’s the case of a “melee weapon attack made with a spell” after all.
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If the spell in question has specific text saying that you can make the attack by hitting someone with your staff, then yes, absolutely.