So I'm making a proper swashbuckler and need some advice (as new to 5th ed)
Currently level 6, Rogue (swashbuckler) 3, Fighter (Scout) 3.
This gives me MANY skills, as straight rogue didn't seem enough, but also fighting and some limited superiority dice.
My original plan was to go Rogue 5 and Fighter 5, then straight Rogue.
So my question is what to take level 7? Either Rogue or fighter 4 gives a feat, then at 5th level in class either a second attack or +D6 sneak AND Uncanny dodge.
My feats were going to be Lucky and Martial Adept (Riposte for sneak attack and Disarm for swashbuckling)
I am two weapon fighting using Mariner fighting style (so no shields).
Also an undercover Yuan-Ti. Less powerful for dex fighting, but more roleplay opportunities.
So anyone any advice on what to go for. Any feats better, or ability points? I've 16 Dex, 17 Cha, 12-14 in everything else (rolled) and which classes first?
Initial thought is rogue 4 with Lucky. As sneak attack and Uncanny dodge are edging out second attack. (Or grab the two feats first?)
Ano... if you multiclass fighter with rogue, you shouldn't end up with more skills than regular rogue. Starting rogue and going fighter doesn't give you any new skill proficencies, and starting fighter and going rogue only yields one skill proficiency as well as thief tools (one less than pure rogue). Click here for more details on multiclassing proficencies.
Scout is now a Rogue subclass. Is this a current character, or one before the start of the game? If the latter, might want to check if you can use such an outdated UA subclass.
I recommend going to get Fighter 5 in time for that level 11 tier jump, and then getting more DEX. Dexterity is always in demand on a rogue.
Yea, unless you're just referring to the idea that a rogue is a skill monkey in it's own right, double check how you've implemented skills. When multi-classing you only get what is described in the multi-class section of the book.
As to your build I went Hunter(ranger) Swashbuckler(rogue), which curiously enough is a combination that gives an extra skill *wink*. I found myself following a similar progression to you shooting for 3/3. I then had to ask; which do I go for now so that the character viable at every level? After much reading and looking at flow of skills and abilities I came to a simple answer; stop leveling your primary class.
Hitting level 5 Fighter first makes you more valuable at lvls 7 and 8. From there you start to pick up as the Rogue and that's just an uphill climb for your DM to try to pin you down :)
I was using the old Fighter Scout (been allowed by GM) so the Scout subclass for fighter gave you 3 additional skills.
Skills seem less useful and less numourous than previous editions.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll check out Hunter. I'm reading both posts say fighter 5, then rogue. Is the extra attack (currently +7 hit, D6+4 dam, with added sneak attack potential) really better than uncanny dodge? I guess best defence is a good offense.
Hunter looks good, but the superiority dice (allowing more ripostes) was the aim. I can see the problem if the UA subclass is no longer normally available.
How about feats to ability checks. Any order best?
Feats seem more interesting, stats dull but help with hit, damage and skills. (not AC as I medium armour currently, would only be better when I get 20 dex).
Also looked at medium armor master for half plate without disadvantage and 3 dex ability =+2AC
I mapped it out to get my DEX up to 20 first, then look into feats, with your build it can take the same path.
You can stick with light armors as your ac will go up hitting around a 17 ac (studded leather). You can then look into other feats, since medium armors will give you a max of 16 without imposing stealth disadvantage (half plate does impose disadvantage).
Edit: I only mapped my character out to level 10 due to the module we're in, beyond that level I don't really have much figured out.
Is the extra attack (currently +7 hit, D6+4 dam, with added sneak attack potential) really better than uncanny dodge?
Very much yes, for several reasons. Not just because of the extra potential damage from the swing, but also because it gives you far extra chance to land your sneak attack damage if your first one misses. That's pretty significant when all is said and done. Also, you've stated that you want to use riposte for your reaction. Uncanny dodge will compete with your Ripostes for your reaction, making less valuable.
Feats seem more interesting, stats dull but help with hit, damage and skills. (not AC as I medium armour currently, would only be better when I get 20 dex).
Also looked at medium armor master for half plate without disadvantage and 3 dex ability =+2AC
They may be "boring" but they're extremely effective. +hit, +damage, +AC, +skills, +initiative. All things a rogue wants to be good at.
DMthac0: your character is going rogue 5 first, then ranger 5! 😀 Curious why you'd then go Ranger. Rogue adds to sneak attack! And how come not FE humanoids?
Medium armor master would get to AC 18, 15 base plus 3 dex and no disadvantage on stealth.
Mephista: Riposte and the Scout dodge (add D8 to AC, if hits take half, so like a backup uncanny dodge all use reaction. That's going to be a difficult one to use! As it was when the vampire attacked).
I am two weapon fighting for this too (extra chance for sneak), but see your point. Sometimes bonus actions are used elsewhere.
Meanwhile, can dex bonuses not wait till later, instead of feats waiting for later ☺
Thanks both for the replies. Keeps the mind working ☺
I don't spend a lot of time min/maxing any more, I spend too much time behind the screen, so when I do play I tend to lean toward building a character with a story in mind. I built this character based off of what I felt were optimal choices confined to his backstory.
1 AC may not be as helpful as another feat: Lucky for better odds, Mage Slayer to give casters a headache, Resilient for another stat bump and saving throw bonus, Savage Attacker for more damage, Sentinel for more Reaction fun, or Skulker for more sneaking fun. Lots of opportunities to give you more, or a different, bang for your buck.
Question about Rakish Audacity. It allows sneak damage if one on one and not at disadvantage. Does an opponent on a mount or an opponent with a small familiar on their person (a spider, cat, or some other small creature) count as one on one? or does the horse or familiar negate sneak damage?
But, my answer is: if the creature is an ally of the target you want to sneak attack, and it has it's own initiative, then it's going to negate Rakish Audacity.
Hello!
So I'm making a proper swashbuckler and need some advice (as new to 5th ed)
Currently level 6, Rogue (swashbuckler) 3, Fighter (Scout) 3.
This gives me MANY skills, as straight rogue didn't seem enough, but also fighting and some limited superiority dice.
My original plan was to go Rogue 5 and Fighter 5, then straight Rogue.
So my question is what to take level 7? Either Rogue or fighter 4 gives a feat, then at 5th level in class either a second attack or +D6 sneak AND Uncanny dodge.
My feats were going to be Lucky and Martial Adept (Riposte for sneak attack and Disarm for swashbuckling)
I am two weapon fighting using Mariner fighting style (so no shields).
Also an undercover Yuan-Ti. Less powerful for dex fighting, but more roleplay opportunities.
So anyone any advice on what to go for. Any feats better, or ability points? I've 16 Dex, 17 Cha, 12-14 in everything else (rolled) and which classes first?
Initial thought is rogue 4 with Lucky. As sneak attack and Uncanny dodge are edging out second attack. (Or grab the two feats first?)
Ano... if you multiclass fighter with rogue, you shouldn't end up with more skills than regular rogue. Starting rogue and going fighter doesn't give you any new skill proficencies, and starting fighter and going rogue only yields one skill proficiency as well as thief tools (one less than pure rogue). Click here for more details on multiclassing proficencies.
Scout is now a Rogue subclass. Is this a current character, or one before the start of the game? If the latter, might want to check if you can use such an outdated UA subclass.
I recommend going to get Fighter 5 in time for that level 11 tier jump, and then getting more DEX. Dexterity is always in demand on a rogue.
Yea, unless you're just referring to the idea that a rogue is a skill monkey in it's own right, double check how you've implemented skills. When multi-classing you only get what is described in the multi-class section of the book.
As to your build I went Hunter(ranger) Swashbuckler(rogue), which curiously enough is a combination that gives an extra skill *wink*. I found myself following a similar progression to you shooting for 3/3. I then had to ask; which do I go for now so that the character viable at every level? After much reading and looking at flow of skills and abilities I came to a simple answer; stop leveling your primary class.
Hitting level 5 Fighter first makes you more valuable at lvls 7 and 8. From there you start to pick up as the Rogue and that's just an uphill climb for your DM to try to pin you down :)
I was using the old Fighter Scout (been allowed by GM) so the Scout subclass for fighter gave you 3 additional skills.
Skills seem less useful and less numourous than previous editions.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll check out Hunter. I'm reading both posts say fighter 5, then rogue. Is the extra attack (currently +7 hit, D6+4 dam, with added sneak attack potential) really better than uncanny dodge? I guess best defence is a good offense.
Hunter looks good, but the superiority dice (allowing more ripostes) was the aim. I can see the problem if the UA subclass is no longer normally available.
Correct, 5 fighter then finish off rogue, it stacks the class features in your favor.
Sounds good. Will rearrange (just levelled up).
How about feats to ability checks. Any order best?
Feats seem more interesting, stats dull but help with hit, damage and skills. (not AC as I medium armour currently, would only be better when I get 20 dex).
Also looked at medium armor master for half plate without disadvantage and 3 dex ability =+2AC
I mapped it out to get my DEX up to 20 first, then look into feats, with your build it can take the same path.
You can stick with light armors as your ac will go up hitting around a 17 ac (studded leather). You can then look into other feats, since medium armors will give you a max of 16 without imposing stealth disadvantage (half plate does impose disadvantage).
Edit: I only mapped my character out to level 10 due to the module we're in, beyond that level I don't really have much figured out.
V Human - Dex +1, Cha +1, Investigation, Sharp Shooter
Ranger 1 - Stealth, Insight, Investigation, Favored enemy: Fiend, Natural explorer: Swamp
Rogue 1 - Perception (multiclass), Expertiese (Stealth, Thieve's Tools), Sneak attack 1d6
Rogue 2 - Cunning Action
Ranger 2 - Fighting style (Archery), Spells
Rogue 3 - Swashbuckler, Fancy Footwork, Rakish Audacity, Sneak attack 2d6
Ranger 3 - Hunter, Colossus Slayer, Primeval awareness
Rogue 4 - ASI Dex (+4)
Rogue 5 - Uncanny Dodge, Sneak attack 3d6
Ranger 4 - ASI DEX (+5)
Ranger 5 - Extra Attack
--Beyond Level 10 will be all Ranger---
Very much yes, for several reasons. Not just because of the extra potential damage from the swing, but also because it gives you far extra chance to land your sneak attack damage if your first one misses. That's pretty significant when all is said and done. Also, you've stated that you want to use riposte for your reaction. Uncanny dodge will compete with your Ripostes for your reaction, making less valuable.
They may be "boring" but they're extremely effective. +hit, +damage, +AC, +skills, +initiative. All things a rogue wants to be good at.
DMthac0: your character is going rogue 5 first, then ranger 5! 😀 Curious why you'd then go Ranger. Rogue adds to sneak attack! And how come not FE humanoids?
Medium armor master would get to AC 18, 15 base plus 3 dex and no disadvantage on stealth.
Mephista: Riposte and the Scout dodge (add D8 to AC, if hits take half, so like a backup uncanny dodge all use reaction. That's going to be a difficult one to use! As it was when the vampire attacked).
I am two weapon fighting for this too (extra chance for sneak), but see your point. Sometimes bonus actions are used elsewhere.
Meanwhile, can dex bonuses not wait till later, instead of feats waiting for later ☺
Thanks both for the replies. Keeps the mind working ☺
I don't spend a lot of time min/maxing any more, I spend too much time behind the screen, so when I do play I tend to lean toward building a character with a story in mind. I built this character based off of what I felt were optimal choices confined to his backstory.
1 AC may not be as helpful as another feat: Lucky for better odds, Mage Slayer to give casters a headache, Resilient for another stat bump and saving throw bonus, Savage Attacker for more damage, Sentinel for more Reaction fun, or Skulker for more sneaking fun. Lots of opportunities to give you more, or a different, bang for your buck.
Question about Rakish Audacity. It allows sneak damage if one on one and not at disadvantage. Does an opponent on a mount or an opponent with a small familiar on their person (a spider, cat, or some other small creature) count as one on one? or does the horse or familiar negate sneak damage?
I'd say this belongs in it's own thread ;)
But, my answer is: if the creature is an ally of the target you want to sneak attack, and it has it's own initiative, then it's going to negate Rakish Audacity.