All those assumptions are just that: Assumptions. They don't mean anything.
If Faerun has 100 million people, there are some broad statistical projections we can make: How many of those reach high levels, what level of strife produces those individuals, and so on.
Then, we can extrapolate: How many people in Europe? Far, far more. How much strife, comparably? Far more. So how many high level fighters will these dragons now have to contend with? Way too many. Who could kill dragons with swords, so there's quite simply no accounting for what they can do with modern weaponry.
I think this is not an avenue that should look attractive to you. I think ignoring levels and hitdice and so on makes more sense, and skews the picture very much less in favor of the humans. If, on top of slightly less than 3 million armed and trained military, paramilitary and police force, there are also hundreds of thousands of high level super heroes - we no longer need fighter jets or anti-tank missiles. We can fight them in melee and win.
CR is descriptive, not prescriptive, you figure out somethings CR by how powerful it is. Damage wise a modern day soldier would be categorised as 1/2 to 1 by his firepower but is also held back by his relative fragility to something of the same level.
Faerun is a continent that’s seemingly larger than Europe, so they would actually have more people, not to mention those who can live underwater. Strife in Europe, what are you talking about? The only major war going on is in Ukraine and Russia, and one of them isn’t involved, other than that, there wasn’t been a major war in decades, Faerun has dealt with multiple apocalyptic events in the span of 200 years, from gods fighting head on head, to a massive chunk of the population mutating into various monsters from the spell plague, not to mention the cult of Tiamat, Storm King's Thunder and Princes of the Apocalypse are all canon in some way to Faerun, the fact that they haven’t invented modern weaponry has meant that they often or not had to face such forces head on.
Most if not all of the humanoid races were also created by gods, which are well known for blessing their warriors to inhuman levels, because of how the lore of Faerun works and how humans have the ability to become supernatural, dragons have to contend with people who could give Hulk or Wolverine a run for their money, I don’t think firearms are going to hurt that badly.
Which considering how much stuff they have to deal with, makes sense as to why their average CR of the population is much higher than the modern day world. In contrast, our world is relatively peaceful and extremely non-magical, we have had zero experience or contact with magic that we know of and firearms has rendered actual strength somewhat worthless, yes a solider is strong and has great endurance, but nowhere close to the raw strength of some bodybuilders who literally take decades of training, genetics and specific diets to even reach a level comparable to that of a strong bull. A Tough boss is not only close to peak human akin to the strongest of body builders, but has also mastered the intricacies of their melee weapon and utilised it in such a way in combat can only be dreamed of by most people. Their ability to survive and avoid dangerous wounds surpasses that of an elephant, who shares the same CR and still gets obliterated by a dragon that isn’t a child.
Because of the different mechanisms behind the nature of Faerun and Earth, Earth humans are in no way able to become like their Faerun relatives. There are mutiple recorded individuals with specific stats that identify them, Mordenkainen, Tasha, Minsc and Bigby all have canonical feats that are comparable to other beings native to their world, can you say the same thing with the average trooper, what makes him so strong that he’s become a equivalent of a Faerun knight? A brown bear is CR 1, I would like reports of a man going head to head with a fully grown, healthy, aggressive brown bear without any firearms or traps and consistently coming out in a stalemate. Because that would actually qualify him at that CR, which very few human beings in our world will have without explosives and firearms, this is the European military, not the pan-Euro Fae military.
Your very clearly grasping at straws and arguments when there weren’t any to begin with, I was talking about a level 20 Rogue as a comparison of what a dragon deals with and is taken out from, not how the random soldier who will become a homeless drunk will randomly gain levels. I was never talking about experience points or fights needed to level up, I was only talking about the capabilities that a “random idiot” with a sword has to the point where the dragon their fighting is genuinely afraid of death.
CR is descriptive, not prescriptive, you figure out somethings CR by how powerful it is. Damage wise a modern day soldier would be categorised as 1/2 to 1 by his firepower but is also held back by his relative fragility to something of the same level.
Faerun is a continent that’s seemingly larger than Europe, so they would actually have more people, not to mention those who can live underwater. Strife in Europe, what are you talking about? The only major war going on is in Ukraine and Russia, and one of them isn’t involved, other than that, there wasn’t been a major war in decades, Faerun has dealt with multiple apocalyptic events in the span of 200 years, from gods fighting head on head, to a massive chunk of the population mutating into various monsters from the spell plague, not to mention the cult of Tiamat, Storm King's Thunder and Princes of the Apocalypse are all canon in some way to Faerun, the fact that they haven’t invented modern weaponry has meant that they often or not had to face such forces head on.
Most if not all of the humanoid races were also created by gods, which are well known for blessing their warriors to inhuman levels, because of how the lore of Faerun works and how humans have the ability to become supernatural, dragons have to contend with people who could give Hulk or Wolverine a run for their money, I don’t think firearms are going to hurt that badly.
Which considering how much stuff they have to deal with, makes sense as to why their average CR of the population is much higher than the modern day world. In contrast, our world is relatively peaceful and extremely non-magical, we have had zero experience or contact with magic that we know of and firearms has rendered actual strength somewhat worthless, yes a solider is strong and has great endurance, but nowhere close to the raw strength of some bodybuilders who literally take decades of training, genetics and specific diets to even reach a level comparable to that of a strong bull. A Tough boss is not only close to peak human akin to the strongest of body builders, but has also mastered the intricacies of their melee weapon and utilised it in such a way in combat can only be dreamed of by most people. Their ability to survive and avoid dangerous wounds surpasses that of an elephant, who shares the same CR and still gets obliterated by a dragon that isn’t a child.
Because of the different mechanisms behind the nature of Faerun and Earth, Earth humans are in no way able to become like their Faerun relatives. There are mutiple recorded individuals with specific stats that identify them, Mordenkainen, Tasha, Minsc and Bigby all have canonical feats that are comparable to other beings native to their world, can you say the same thing with the average trooper, what makes him so strong that he’s become a equivalent of a Faerun knight? A brown bear is CR 1, I would like reports of a man going head to head with a fully grown, healthy, aggressive brown bear without any firearms or traps and consistently coming out in a stalemate. Because that would actually qualify him at that CR, which very few human beings in our world will have without explosives and firearms, this is the European military, not the pan-Euro Fae military.
I'm sorry. I've said it a billion times: An assault rifle sheds a dragon like a paper doll. Soldiers don't have CR, they have absolutely outrageous damage output compared to a guy with a sword - or a dragon.
Faerun is medieval. It's maybe 10% of present day Europe. Or more, it's not like it matters. Let's just say it's twice as populous. If you want to mix levels into things, your dragons still need to contend with tens of thousands of high level heroes, on top of soldiers with assault rifles and anti tank weapons, tanks, IFV's, fighter jets, loitering hunter-killer drones, satellite surveilance ... all of that. Plus fantasy heroes with machine guns.
I simply don't know where you're trying to go with the gods stuff.
And you cannot try to use a make believe world and a made up set of rules for comparison with the real world. I've said that repeatedly, and I'm happy to say it again: As far as I'm concerned, if dragons come to the real world, they play by real world rules. There are no combat rounds, no initiative rolls, no nothing. Although I'm happy to use the terminology to exemplify. For instance, an assault rifle literally empties a clip in less than one round.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
And I’ve set it a trillion times: A assault rifle deals 3d8 + dexterity.
Nopes.
We're not pretending D&D rules mean anything. But let's just play with that. Just for fun. An assault rifle holds 30 rounds. All are fired in a round. All his. 90d8, per round, per shooter. So an infantry squad will land 900d8 in one round. Not counting the sqaud support - LMG and anti tank.
I'm good with those numbers.
But I think this is just the end. I'm not discussing this topic as if D&D rules have any impact what so ever ... outside the books.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
So how about instead of getting real grumpy like a adult man should, you realise we are talking about FANTASY monsters and not whether Isreal is right or wrong.
Also D&D tough bosses deal the same damage as an assault rifle, maybe less, I have the better merit because of the fact that D&D already has the weapons and you elect to ignore it because your scared that you might be wrong. (Hence why you suddenly add superhero’s at the vague mention of CR, you threw the goal post into the sea because you got mad that it isn’t a complete stomp.)
This entire argument as actually been lopsided, I’m the guy defending the fantasy dragons, I should be the one pulling more high balling and anger into the argument, why are you guys saying your military would be willing to nuke their own cities, have superman and captain America of kill dragons on your side and have the civilians be this automatous machine that detects all outliers and kills them? Who’s supposed to be the more reasonable ones, I’ve pulled like two long shots at best and actively correct people defending my side about actual feats.
Just don’t argue in this forum, this is the D&D website for D&D dragons in a D&D forum, if your not willing to argue in good faith and are clearly getting this mad, maybe don’t argue against a monster in a system's mechanics you don’t want to use.
You may as well just use Utopia or GURP's ruleset by that logic and say that it’s completely fair as both has humans and dragons in it.
I'm not grumpy. I'm simply outlining what I consider to be reasonable parameters for talking about this. If you don't feel the same way, I'm good with that. But then there's nothing to discuss. If we cannot have the same conversation, we really shouldn't have it with each other. That's counterproductive. Not worth it.
I do not need any sort of powers. I've stated many many posts ago that 6 guys with 1911's win against a dragon. I'm trying to set the bar so low that it's obvious enough that a real military will not be challenged in any way by dragons.
Never mind. Have a nice day =)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
So how about instead of getting real grumpy like a adult man should, you realise we are talking about FANTASY monsters and not whether Isreal is right or wrong.
Also D&D tough bosses deal the same damage as an assault rifle, maybe less, I have the better merit because of the fact that D&D already has the weapons and you elect to ignore it because your scared that you might be wrong. (Hence why you suddenly add superhero’s at the vague mention of CR, you threw the goal post into the sea because you got mad that it isn’t a complete stomp.)
This entire argument as actually been lopsided, I’m the guy defending the fantasy dragons, I should be the one pulling more high balling and anger into the argument, why are you guys saying your military would be willing to nuke their own cities, have superman and captain America of kill dragons on your side and have the civilians be this automatous machine that detects all outliers and kills them? Who’s supposed to be the more reasonable ones, I’ve pulled like two long shots at best and actively correct people defending my side about actual feats.
Also moon sized monster damage.
Because if you look at the history of most countries in at all, you would realise that nuking cities to eliminate a threat would be something almost any leader would do. Why would a politician care as long as the threat who’s been plaguing them is gone, and they’re safe?
So how about instead of getting real grumpy like a adult man should, you realise we are talking about FANTASY monsters and not whether Isreal is right or wrong.
Also D&D tough bosses deal the same damage as an assault rifle, maybe less, I have the better merit because of the fact that D&D already has the weapons and you elect to ignore it because your scared that you might be wrong. (Hence why you suddenly add superhero’s at the vague mention of CR, you threw the goal post into the sea because you got mad that it isn’t a complete stomp.)
This entire argument as actually been lopsided, I’m the guy defending the fantasy dragons, I should be the one pulling more high balling and anger into the argument, why are you guys saying your military would be willing to nuke their own cities, have superman and captain America of kill dragons on your side and have the civilians be this automatous machine that detects all outliers and kills them? Who’s supposed to be the more reasonable ones, I’ve pulled like two long shots at best and actively correct people defending my side about actual feats.
Also moon sized monster damage.
Because if you look at the history of most countries in at all, you would realise that nuking cities to eliminate a threat would be something almost any leader would do. Why would a politician care as long as the threat who’s been plaguing them is gone, and they’re safe?
Because dragons don’t have a specific place to target and every place that has ever been nuked has been barren or enemy territory, it’s that simple, a nuke isn’t a regular bomb, why are you acting like it’s this super precise weapon, it’s called a WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction) for a reason, everything around it is going to die horribly.
This is Europe we’re talking about, if their buddy buddy with each other, they will absolutely not be that friendly if a nation starts nuking themselves to get rid of dragons, the nation itself would try to stop whoever is planning that.
America tested in Nevada, where there was little life to spread it, Russia tests nuclear weapons on itself because 80% of it is a barren hellhole, everyone else tested it in the sea or a mountain range far from them. Is Japan considered American territory? Cause I don’t think they were when America dropped 2 suns on them. Why do you think Europe's scenario would be anything similar, Europe is compact with multiple resources connected through different countries, if a nuke were to drop on one, it WILL spread to other countries by water or food sources, and if not it will wipe out entire forests and create dead zones for a decade or so.
It does not matter if they have more forests or food, that will cause thousands upon thousands to starve to death, die from radiation poisoning and cause mass panic for the public when the government is willing to use nuclear weapons to kill dragons, because that means dragons are somehow dangerous enough to warrant using them in the first place.
Currently rolling 1.5 million d20s to see how many rifle attacks from the entire European military would hit Faerun’s dragon population
Edit: taking the average of ((d20 + 2) AC 18 * (3d8 + 2)), which is an assault rifle’s to hit and damage assuming a soldier has 14 DEX, and multiplying it by 1.5 million, the dragon populous of Faerun would be receiving about 5,812,500 piercing damage. Do take the number with a grain of salt tho cus it assumes every soldier in Europe is firing upon a dragon and that every dragon has 18 AC.
Currently rolling 1.5 million d20s to see how many rifle attacks from the entire European military would hit Faerun’s dragon population
Edit: taking the average of ((d20 + 2) AC 18 * (3d8 + 2)), which is an assault rifle’s to hit and damage assuming a soldier has 14 DEX, and multiplying it by 1.5 million, the dragon populous of Faerun would be receiving about 5,812,500 piercing damage. Do take the number with a grain of salt tho cus it assumes every soldier in Europe is firing upon a dragon and that every dragon has 18 AC.
You could have saved yourself like 5 minutes of your life if you used mob rules.
Currently rolling 1.5 million d20s to see how many rifle attacks from the entire European military would hit Faerun’s dragon population
Edit: taking the average of ((d20 + 2) AC 18 * (3d8 + 2)), which is an assault rifle’s to hit and damage assuming a soldier has 14 DEX, and multiplying it by 1.5 million, the dragon populous of Faerun would be receiving about 5,812,500 piercing damage. Do take the number with a grain of salt tho cus it assumes every soldier in Europe is firing upon a dragon and that every dragon has 18 AC.
You could have saved yourself like 5 minutes of your life if you used mob rules.
The nations of Europe have a combined 370 nuclear warheads. 595 if you include the United Kingdom.
What's the DC on a thermonuclear blast?
Europe wins.
Also... an ancient red dragon has a flying speed of 80' per round. The Eurofighter Typhoon has a flying speed of 14,080' per round. And it carries AMRAAM missiles. They travel 3,000 miles per hour and can hit you from a plane 50 miles away. What's the range on a dragon's breath weapon? Is it 50 miles? No, it's 1.7% of one mile.
Also also... there's a 9th level wizard spell called Meteor Swarm. It has a range of 1 mile. It's basically artillery. How many times can the dragons cast that spell? Because Europe produced two million artillery shells last year. That's 666,666 ninth-level spell slots.
If Europe can't go out of it's own airspace, how could they use these without destroying their own cities and people. Sounds pretty antiproductive.
There wouldn't be any reason to use nukes. It's one thing that the enemy simply doesn't warrant it, but another that ... that's simply not how you use nukes (although arguably, there's no established way to use them. There's very much an established thought process on it). In the case of a nuclear power vs a non-nuclear power, you can use one (or, as the case might be, two) nukes to basically say: Stop now, or we will use more nukes. This is all but unthinkable. It's not going to happen, even in a situation where every major power in the world seems to be run by crazy people (hypothetically, of course).
The other is 'tactical use'. And that needs a bit of explanation, because people seem to think you'd bomb troop concentrations. That, like above, is simply not going to happen. Tactical nukes may some day be used to knock out some vital and irreplacable piece of infrastructure. Like: Oh, we hear this is where you build all your tanks. Or: Oh, we hear this is where you have all your centrifuges and stuff.
And then, of course, there's the apocalypse. With dragons, that's not really going to happen. But still, European nukes on European soil is not possible. Also not a concern: Rifles kill dragons. Why use a nuke then?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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CR is descriptive, not prescriptive, you figure out somethings CR by how powerful it is. Damage wise a modern day soldier would be categorised as 1/2 to 1 by his firepower but is also held back by his relative fragility to something of the same level.
Faerun is a continent that’s seemingly larger than Europe, so they would actually have more people, not to mention those who can live underwater. Strife in Europe, what are you talking about? The only major war going on is in Ukraine and Russia, and one of them isn’t involved, other than that, there wasn’t been a major war in decades, Faerun has dealt with multiple apocalyptic events in the span of 200 years, from gods fighting head on head, to a massive chunk of the population mutating into various monsters from the spell plague, not to mention the cult of Tiamat, Storm King's Thunder and Princes of the Apocalypse are all canon in some way to Faerun, the fact that they haven’t invented modern weaponry has meant that they often or not had to face such forces head on.
Most if not all of the humanoid races were also created by gods, which are well known for blessing their warriors to inhuman levels, because of how the lore of Faerun works and how humans have the ability to become supernatural, dragons have to contend with people who could give Hulk or Wolverine a run for their money, I don’t think firearms are going to hurt that badly.
Which considering how much stuff they have to deal with, makes sense as to why their average CR of the population is much higher than the modern day world. In contrast, our world is relatively peaceful and extremely non-magical, we have had zero experience or contact with magic that we know of and firearms has rendered actual strength somewhat worthless, yes a solider is strong and has great endurance, but nowhere close to the raw strength of some bodybuilders who literally take decades of training, genetics and specific diets to even reach a level comparable to that of a strong bull. A Tough boss is not only close to peak human akin to the strongest of body builders, but has also mastered the intricacies of their melee weapon and utilised it in such a way in combat can only be dreamed of by most people. Their ability to survive and avoid dangerous wounds surpasses that of an elephant, who shares the same CR and still gets obliterated by a dragon that isn’t a child.
Because of the different mechanisms behind the nature of Faerun and Earth, Earth humans are in no way able to become like their Faerun relatives. There are mutiple recorded individuals with specific stats that identify them, Mordenkainen, Tasha, Minsc and Bigby all have canonical feats that are comparable to other beings native to their world, can you say the same thing with the average trooper, what makes him so strong that he’s become a equivalent of a Faerun knight? A brown bear is CR 1, I would like reports of a man going head to head with a fully grown, healthy, aggressive brown bear without any firearms or traps and consistently coming out in a stalemate. Because that would actually qualify him at that CR, which very few human beings in our world will have without explosives and firearms, this is the European military, not the pan-Euro Fae military.
Your very clearly grasping at straws and arguments when there weren’t any to begin with, I was talking about a level 20 Rogue as a comparison of what a dragon deals with and is taken out from, not how the random soldier who will become a homeless drunk will randomly gain levels. I was never talking about experience points or fights needed to level up, I was only talking about the capabilities that a “random idiot” with a sword has to the point where the dragon their fighting is genuinely afraid of death.
I'm sorry. I've said it a billion times: An assault rifle sheds a dragon like a paper doll. Soldiers don't have CR, they have absolutely outrageous damage output compared to a guy with a sword - or a dragon.
Faerun is medieval. It's maybe 10% of present day Europe. Or more, it's not like it matters. Let's just say it's twice as populous. If you want to mix levels into things, your dragons still need to contend with tens of thousands of high level heroes, on top of soldiers with assault rifles and anti tank weapons, tanks, IFV's, fighter jets, loitering hunter-killer drones, satellite surveilance ... all of that. Plus fantasy heroes with machine guns.
I simply don't know where you're trying to go with the gods stuff.
And you cannot try to use a make believe world and a made up set of rules for comparison with the real world. I've said that repeatedly, and I'm happy to say it again: As far as I'm concerned, if dragons come to the real world, they play by real world rules. There are no combat rounds, no initiative rolls, no nothing. Although I'm happy to use the terminology to exemplify. For instance, an assault rifle literally empties a clip in less than one round.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
And I’ve set it a trillion times: A assault rifle deals 3d8 + dexterity.
Nopes.
We're not pretending D&D rules mean anything. But let's just play with that. Just for fun. An assault rifle holds 30 rounds. All are fired in a round. All his. 90d8, per round, per shooter. So an infantry squad will land 900d8 in one round. Not counting the sqaud support - LMG and anti tank.
I'm good with those numbers.
But I think this is just the end. I'm not discussing this topic as if D&D rules have any impact what so ever ... outside the books.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
So how about instead of getting real grumpy like a adult man should, you realise we are talking about FANTASY monsters and not whether Isreal is right or wrong.
Also D&D tough bosses deal the same damage as an assault rifle, maybe less, I have the better merit because of the fact that D&D already has the weapons and you elect to ignore it because your scared that you might be wrong. (Hence why you suddenly add superhero’s at the vague mention of CR, you threw the goal post into the sea because you got mad that it isn’t a complete stomp.)
This entire argument as actually been lopsided, I’m the guy defending the fantasy dragons, I should be the one pulling more high balling and anger into the argument, why are you guys saying your military would be willing to nuke their own cities, have superman and captain America of kill dragons on your side and have the civilians be this automatous machine that detects all outliers and kills them? Who’s supposed to be the more reasonable ones, I’ve pulled like two long shots at best and actively correct people defending my side about actual feats.
Also moon sized monster damage.
Just don’t argue in this forum, this is the D&D website for D&D dragons in a D&D forum, if your not willing to argue in good faith and are clearly getting this mad, maybe don’t argue against a monster in a system's mechanics you don’t want to use.
You may as well just use Utopia or GURP's ruleset by that logic and say that it’s completely fair as both has humans and dragons in it.
I'm not grumpy. I'm simply outlining what I consider to be reasonable parameters for talking about this. If you don't feel the same way, I'm good with that. But then there's nothing to discuss. If we cannot have the same conversation, we really shouldn't have it with each other. That's counterproductive. Not worth it.
I do not need any sort of powers. I've stated many many posts ago that 6 guys with 1911's win against a dragon. I'm trying to set the bar so low that it's obvious enough that a real military will not be challenged in any way by dragons.
Never mind. Have a nice day =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Because if you look at the history of most countries in at all, you would realise that nuking cities to eliminate a threat would be something almost any leader would do. Why would a politician care as long as the threat who’s been plaguing them is gone, and they’re safe?
Idk
Because dragons don’t have a specific place to target and every place that has ever been nuked has been barren or enemy territory, it’s that simple, a nuke isn’t a regular bomb, why are you acting like it’s this super precise weapon, it’s called a WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction) for a reason, everything around it is going to die horribly.
This is Europe we’re talking about, if their buddy buddy with each other, they will absolutely not be that friendly if a nation starts nuking themselves to get rid of dragons, the nation itself would try to stop whoever is planning that.
America tested in Nevada, where there was little life to spread it, Russia tests nuclear weapons on itself because 80% of it is a barren hellhole, everyone else tested it in the sea or a mountain range far from them. Is Japan considered American territory? Cause I don’t think they were when America dropped 2 suns on them. Why do you think Europe's scenario would be anything similar, Europe is compact with multiple resources connected through different countries, if a nuke were to drop on one, it WILL spread to other countries by water or food sources, and if not it will wipe out entire forests and create dead zones for a decade or so.
It does not matter if they have more forests or food, that will cause thousands upon thousands to starve to death, die from radiation poisoning and cause mass panic for the public when the government is willing to use nuclear weapons to kill dragons, because that means dragons are somehow dangerous enough to warrant using them in the first place.
Currently rolling 1.5 million d20s to see how many rifle attacks from the entire European military would hit Faerun’s dragon population
Edit: taking the average of ((d20 + 2) AC 18 * (3d8 + 2)), which is an assault rifle’s to hit and damage assuming a soldier has 14 DEX, and multiplying it by 1.5 million, the dragon populous of Faerun would be receiving about 5,812,500 piercing damage. Do take the number with a grain of salt tho cus it assumes every soldier in Europe is firing upon a dragon and that every dragon has 18 AC.
You could have saved yourself like 5 minutes of your life if you used mob rules.
I like to roll the digital dice
If Europe can't go out of it's own airspace, how could they use these without destroying their own cities and people. Sounds pretty antiproductive.
There wouldn't be any reason to use nukes. It's one thing that the enemy simply doesn't warrant it, but another that ... that's simply not how you use nukes (although arguably, there's no established way to use them. There's very much an established thought process on it). In the case of a nuclear power vs a non-nuclear power, you can use one (or, as the case might be, two) nukes to basically say: Stop now, or we will use more nukes. This is all but unthinkable. It's not going to happen, even in a situation where every major power in the world seems to be run by crazy people (hypothetically, of course).
The other is 'tactical use'. And that needs a bit of explanation, because people seem to think you'd bomb troop concentrations. That, like above, is simply not going to happen. Tactical nukes may some day be used to knock out some vital and irreplacable piece of infrastructure. Like: Oh, we hear this is where you build all your tanks. Or: Oh, we hear this is where you have all your centrifuges and stuff.
And then, of course, there's the apocalypse. With dragons, that's not really going to happen. But still, European nukes on European soil is not possible. Also not a concern: Rifles kill dragons. Why use a nuke then?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.