First time I've posted here, hope this is the appropriate place to ask:
So I am currently playing a campaign as a monk of the drunken master variety. He's sorta comic relief at this point (probably stereotypical for drunken master but maybe not, I've never played in a campaign with a monk of any kind before let alone drunken master, and he was like that before I even picked to go with that path) and he has a large affinity for a specific exotic animal. To the point where the DM (half-jokingly) suggested I multiclass into a druid so I can shapeshift into it - it's not a particularly good animal for combat (or any other useful reason to shapeshift into) but I ended up realizing... this character's story arc is realistically heading that way. I've never actually multiclassed before though and I don't wanna make poor choices that leave me useless in combat scenarios as we are a three person party. I have been looking up the basics of multiclassing, finding tips like to wait until I'm level 5 (so I get my extra attack ASAP), be mindful of ASIs and feats, etc etc... but given the specifics of my scenario, I haven't found any direct examples of this hypothetical multiclass: drunken master monk with some druid added in. He'd still have more levels as a monk, I think...
Additional info: I think it'd work in that I'm not too attached to the final monk abilities. This sounds as good a time as any for me to try my hand at multiclassing for the first time, and I assume some of it is trial and error and that enjoying my character is more important than maximizing battle efficiency. But to some degree, I don't want to fall behind the other party members either in usefulness, as my only real skill the character has consistently shown out of battle (outside of adding levity to the game) has been a godly level of performance (singing in celestial while playing the lyre, keep nailing the dice rolls in those moments). I want to remain at least fairly useful during the battles. I saw monk/barbarian or even monk/fighter as possibilities with drunken master, but those don't make much sense with his lore.
1) Would this be a realistically effective combination?
2) What level should I dip into druid and when do I pull out?
Any other advice would be appreciated, I don't really have experience with this. And I don't know what level we're going to either (we do a lot of short adventures, sorta episodic, not a lot of overarching plot, it's stop and go) so I think it wouldn't make sense to wait until a high level to do this... unless it's the only way to remain viable.
A Druid dip seems kinda weird from my perspective, mechanics-wise. You’d have to go far into Druid to get any real benefits out of wild shape, because as a Monk you’re already decent in melee combat range as well as flexible off the battlefield. If you wanted to go Druid for the story factor, one or two levels is all you should go (in my opinion anyway). But that’s from someone who doesn’t know all the details or how you play the character. Gaining spells would certainly round out a character’s flaws, especially if you were interested in taking spells that would help more outside of combat.
Any caster relies heavily upon their level progression in order to get stronger, as that’s what determines how many spells they have. In a similar fashion, Monks depend heavily (more so than other martial classes, I’d say) on their levels, since so many of their abilities (and their Ki) rely on class levels.
In short, it’s a weird combination, but it’s not the *worst* thing you can do. And if you enjoy playing that kind of character concept, then go for it! But be warned that you most likely will fall off in some capacity during combat from the others who are not multiclassing.
EDIT: I’ve just realized I have personal experience in something similar. I once played a Sorcerer who multiclassed into Monk for story reasons. Although I had an absolute blast playing it, I definitely did notice that my combat prowess was not up to par with the rest of the party.
druid seems to gel with this character story and I think you would have fun.
as for how big a dip, that totally depends on what you are after, if you only want basic wildshape you only need level 2, if you are trying for a flying shape well that is a much bigger committment.
you will have to pick a circle too, I am not sure if really need moon if you are just trying for basic wildshape. circle of the land could really be fun depending on what you pick.
my main concern would be, martial arts in wild shape. I imagine they do not line up but it will be tempting to ask for it and possibly break the game
A Druid dip seems kinda weird from my perspective, mechanics-wise. You’d have to go far into Druid to get any real benefits out of wild shape, because as a Monk you’re already decent in melee combat range as well as flexible off the battlefield. If you wanted to go Druid for the story factor, one or two levels is all you should go (in my opinion anyway). But that’s from someone who doesn’t know all the details or how you play the character. Gaining spells would certainly round out a character’s flaws, especially if you were interested in taking spells that would help more outside of combat.
Any caster relies heavily upon their level progression in order to get stronger, as that’s what determines how many spells they have. In a similar fashion, Monks depend heavily (more so than other martial classes, I’d say) on their levels, since so many of their abilities (and their Ki) rely on class levels.
In short, it’s a weird combination, but it’s not the *worst* thing you can do. And if you enjoy playing that kind of character concept, then go for it! But be warned that you most likely will fall off in some capacity during combat from the others who are not multiclassing.
EDIT: I’ve just realized I have personal experience in something similar. I once played a Sorcerer who multiclassed into Monk for story reasons. Although I had an absolute blast playing it, I definitely did notice that my combat prowess was not up to par with the rest of the party.
This is actually one of the places I found briefly touching on Druid/Monk, it implied it would be alright but was fairly vague and didn't mention subclasses so I wasn't sure if drunken master still meshes. I could take whatever few spells I get for utility outside of fights but I likely would stick to fighting up close, given the other classes are a gloom stalker ranger and death domain cleric, I've been the one trying to get in between them and the foes in most fights (between decent AC, ki dodging, and healing from cleric, I've been more or less effective thus far). I realize it would not be exactly maximizing my potential though, just wanted to make sure I wouldn't become entirely useless - I talked briefly with the DM to feel out the idea and he basically said that, should he notice any shift in combat prowess, he'd take that into account as he's more interested in story telling than seeing us go for as much power as possible (unless that is the character's goal). In terms of what I'd lose as a monk, the main concern of mine comes down to ki points (as those are fairly limited in early levels). I was guessing maybe doing 4 levels so I don't miss on any ASIs (or possibly feats), and was debating whether to do it after I hit level 5 (I want the extra attack before anything else) or wait until after level 8 (so I can get one more ASI or feat first). It's mostly planning ahead at this point as we are about to hit level 4. But hey, I love putting thought into my options ahead of time.
druid seems to gel with this character story and I think you would have fun.
as for how big a dip, that totally depends on what you are after, if you only want basic wildshape you only need level 2, if you are trying for a flying shape well that is a much bigger committment.
you will have to pick a circle too, I am not sure if really need moon if you are just trying for basic wildshape. circle of the land could really be fun depending on what you pick.
my main concern would be, martial arts in wild shape. I imagine they do not line up but it will be tempting to ask for it and possibly break the game
Thanks! I've mostly had fun with this character, it's not my deepest character but it's an interesting change of pace to play someone who's much more... impulsive.
I was thinking possibly 4 levels so I don't lose a potential ASI or feat, though if it's not that big a deal I could just do 2. The creature in particular that he's fixated on are llamas (for religious reasons) which I've found listed as 1/2 CR (wasn't sure if it was official or homebrew, the DM showed me the stats when he first brought up the druid joke). So basically, for story purposes he either needs to have 2 levels in Circle of the Moon or 4 levels in any other circle. Is there a particular reason you think Land could be better? I'm still exploring the options there. As for martial arts... when I went back to the DM to hear his serious thoughts on the matter, he ruled I'd get to keep those abilities when wild shaped, which could mitigate my worries of losing too much combat prowess - I doubt even this character would charge into battle as a llama (which are laughably weak) but some of the stronger wildshapes could be pretty dang powerful. And wildshape isn't entirely out of character anyways for him because he DOES worship a god of animals and has an affinity for nature. But like, I would still like to hear what you think the biggest benefits of the land circle would be because the added utility is admittedly tempting.
mainly the additional cantrip from land; and cantrips do scale with character level so this becomes a great ranged option well into your future.
I recommend, assuming level 4 druid of the land (mountain), picking, thorn whip, guidance, mold earth, and frostbite. all seem utility and/or mountain theme. thorn whip can move a guy towards you, since you are melee I thought that would be a nice fit.
land also gives you natural recovery at level 2 which is pretty righteous!
I picked mountain because I think llamas are mountain animals
moon gets 2 cantrips at level 1 and total 3 at level 4 so not too bad
going moon you may be tempted to just turn into a dire wolf like every other moon druid, I like the 4 level journey to becoming a llama myself
I don't think the llama is an official creature, so perhaps ask the DM if you can reskin a mule as a llama - which looks absolutely perfect to me. As a 1/8 creature you could access it at Land Druid level two, along with your 3 llama cantrips and llama mediation spell slot recovery. 3 cantrips and 5 lvl 1 spells per day, plus llama form, all for two levels of druid. You could use your llama form to carry heavy loads and climb dangerous mountains, also for comic effects which is a perfectly valid use. Give any spell chosen a nice llama skin and you're ready to go. I would suggest "Freezing Wind of the Llama Mountain" / Frostbite, "Wisdom of the Llama" / Guidance, and "Llama's Feet Shape the Earth" / Mold Earth.
mainly the additional cantrip from land; and cantrips do scale with character level so this becomes a great ranged option well into your future.
I recommend, assuming level 4 druid of the land (mountain), picking, thorn whip, guidance, mold earth, and frostbite. all seem utility and/or mountain theme. thorn whip can move a guy towards you, since you are melee I thought that would be a nice fit.
land also gives you natural recovery at level 2 which is pretty righteous!
I picked mountain because I think llamas are mountain animals
moon gets 2 cantrips at level 1 and total 3 at level 4 so not too bad
going moon you may be tempted to just turn into a dire wolf like every other moon druid, I like the 4 level journey to becoming a llama myself
Hmm, sounds good, and yes, llamas are mountain animals, I had to look up some base knowledge for my character. I will take that path and spells into consideration, especially since I have tinkered with a moon druid before but not land!
I don't think the llama is an official creature, so perhaps ask the DM if you can reskin a mule as a llama - which looks absolutely perfect to me. As a 1/8 creature you could access it at Land Druid level two, along with your 3 llama cantrips and llama mediation spell slot recovery. 3 cantrips and 5 lvl 1 spells per day, plus llama form, all for two levels of druid. You could use your llama form to carry heavy loads and climb dangerous mountains, also for comic effects which is a perfectly valid use. Give any spell chosen a nice llama skin and you're ready to go. I would suggest "Freezing Wind of the Llama Mountain" / Frostbite, "Wisdom of the Llama" / Guidance, and "Llama's Feet Shape the Earth" / Mold Earth.
The DM already found what seems to be a homebrew llama that's a 1/2 CR creature so if I went down this path, that's what he'd use... which is perfectly usable with a Land Druid level four. I do like the idea of renaming his cantrips/spells to fit the theme.
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked for some input, I wasn't even considering land druid but I'm liking the idea. I think once I get to level 5 I'll likely go through with this. :) I'm excited to finally try multiclassing!
The DM already found what seems to be a homebrew llama that's a 1/2 CR creature so if I went down this path, that's what he'd use... which is perfectly usable with a Land Druid level four. I do like the idea of renaming his cantrips/spells to fit the theme.
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked for some input, I wasn't even considering land druid but I'm liking the idea. I think once I get to level 5 I'll likely go through with this. :) I'm excited to finally try multiclassing!
1/2 just seems really high for a Llama is all. There is a single Llama in the homebrew section on this site which is a 1/2 creature, but that is some sort of specific psychic llama that seems related to a unique character from that person's story. A normal llama should surely sit somewhere around a mule/camel (1/8) or at most a cow/elk (1/4). 1/2 is for the larger predators, magically giant beasts and dangerous swarms - not a normal llama...
A Circle of Dreams druid sounds appropriate for a character that routinely passes out and dreams about being a llama. Balm of The Summer Court is pretty useful in a pinch, too. It’s nice because it has double the range of healing word and can be used while wild shaped. Monks also retain their unarmored defense and movement bonus while wild shaped, so you could definitely win in llama racing events. This llama would also be an exceptional mount for being able to run up walls, run across water, and slow fall while carrying a rider.
Pretty sure a llama should just be a reskin of Mule, maybe raise str and con a bit and take away sure footed, CR 1/8.
That aside, anyone else think it would be funny to take circle of shepherd druid and talk to animals? The Spirit Totem also has a lot of support usefulness. It doesn't really outshine the others in terms of strength, but has unique role play options.
The circle of land druid has a higher quantity of spells, from the extra cantrip, 2 circle spells at level 3, and natural recovery getting you an extra spell slot (or 2) once per day. At a 4 level dip, I think this offers the most.
Circle of moon gets you basically whatever wildshape you wanted from other circles in just 2 levels, and you can transform as a bonus action instead to make an attack same turn. You still have 3 level 1 slots for utility spells (druids have great utility even at low level), optionally, moon druids can burn spell slots to heal their wildshape. This is probably the best if you want to have only 2 or 3 levels druid.
My personal opinion (assuming your DM uses a llama with lower CR, unless you go moon druid), is to take only 2 or 3 levels druid so you can get the drunken master's intoxicated frenzy and 1d10 monk weapon damage (also assuming your campaign goes to level 20). This is also assuming you do not want the extra 2nd level slot or better natural recovery if you go circle of land.
Sorry that got so wordy. I had more to say the more I looked into the options. I hope its useful.
The DM already found what seems to be a homebrew llama that's a 1/2 CR creature so if I went down this path, that's what he'd use... which is perfectly usable with a Land Druid level four. I do like the idea of renaming his cantrips/spells to fit the theme.
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked for some input, I wasn't even considering land druid but I'm liking the idea. I think once I get to level 5 I'll likely go through with this. :) I'm excited to finally try multiclassing!
1/2 just seems really high for a Llama is all. There is a single Llama in the homebrew section on this site which is a 1/2 creature, but that is some sort of specific psychic llama that seems related to a unique character from that person's story. A normal llama should surely sit somewhere around a mule/camel (1/8) or at most a cow/elk (1/4). 1/2 is for the larger predators, magically giant beasts and dangerous swarms - not a normal llama...
Yeah it does, I'll have to talk to him about that. The CR 1/2 does seem high in comparison to other animals, I'm starting to wonder if I misread it now? I don't know, I feel like I'm going crazy, because looking at the creature list... it doesn't seem correct.
A Circle of Dreams druid sounds appropriate for a character that routinely passes out and dreams about being a llama. Balm of The Summer Court is pretty useful in a pinch, too. It’s nice because it has double the range of healing word and can be used while wild shaped. Monks also retain their unarmored defense and movement bonus while wild shaped, so you could definitely win in llama racing events. This llama would also be an exceptional mount for being able to run up walls, run across water, and slow fall while carrying a rider.
Well he's never passed out and dreamed about that so idk if that fits flavor-wise, he more of looks up to them... sort of like how cows are sacred in most Hindu beliefs? I think the best comparison would be, due to his god Urcuchillay (an Incan god) has the appearance of a llama so he sees them as representing a higher state. As useful as Balm of the Summer Court is, if I go with that circle I'd be picking that for mechanics and less for the flavor.
But I do like that I should have unarmored defense and movement bonus while wild shaped. Not that I plan to fight as a llama but... hey, never know when we'll get ambushed!
Pretty sure a llama should just be a reskin of Mule, maybe raise str and con a bit and take away sure footed, CR 1/8.
That aside, anyone else think it would be funny to take circle of shepherd druid and talk to animals? The Spirit Totem also has a lot of support usefulness. It doesn't really outshine the others in terms of strength, but has unique role play options.
The circle of land druid has a higher quantity of spells, from the extra cantrip, 2 circle spells at level 3, and natural recovery getting you an extra spell slot (or 2) once per day. At a 4 level dip, I think this offers the most.
Circle of moon gets you basically whatever wildshape you wanted from other circles in just 2 levels, and you can transform as a bonus action instead to make an attack same turn. You still have 3 level 1 slots for utility spells (druids have great utility even at low level), optionally, moon druids can burn spell slots to heal their wildshape. This is probably the best if you want to have only 2 or 3 levels druid.
My personal opinion (assuming your DM uses a llama with lower CR, unless you go moon druid), is to take only 2 or 3 levels druid so you can get the drunken master's intoxicated frenzy and 1d10 monk weapon damage (also assuming your campaign goes to level 20). This is also assuming you do not want the extra 2nd level slot or better natural recovery if you go circle of land.
Sorry that got so wordy. I had more to say the more I looked into the options. I hope its useful.
I did consider Circle of Shepherd due to the character worshiping a god that literally Incan herders worshiped... but mechanically, I don't see it as super useful, as two out of three party members are fairly good at handling animals already, the group's ranger can do that anytime with a ritual, and due to plot reasons the characters can currently communicate telepathically with their mounts. Talking to animals doesn't have quite as much utility at this point... though I agree it would make sense, I just don't know how much fun or mileage I'd get out of that compared to other circles.
Moon does have a lot of usefulness but as Gigaflop said, it would be tempting to just default to something like Dire Wolf like any other Moon Druid... and it becomes a bit of overkill. Though the temptation is REALLY strong there because applying my monk abilities to a CR 1 critter sounds very useful... but I can't help but feel I'm going for strength over storytelling at that point. Especially if the llama CR ends up being 1/8 or 1/4 as it seems like it should be. He'd probably not spend most of his time wildshaped in combat anyways...
Which still leaves me leaning towards Land but I still am a bit indecisive.
As for intoxicated frenzy... I'm not super sold on it as the 5 flurry of blows attacks must all be on different targets in one turn and the DM hasn't really seemed to put me (or anyone) in scenarios where we get surrounded. I don't know how often I'd really get to use intoxicated frenzy. Of course the 1d10 martial arts damage IS something I'd care more about, but I would be sacrificing an ASI for it and would be sacrificing an AC and either a damage point or Ki saving throw DC point (depending on if I take those points from dex or wis) just to get a possible 2 points more of damage. And yeah, that all IS assuming we go to level 20 and the one thing is, we don't exactly have a long term campaign, we just do smaller mini campaignswith these characters (most are standalone stories we can do in one sitting, though the current one should be three parts) due to most of the group being unable to commit to a full campaign at this time. So whether we go to level 20 is completely unknown... but I also like to be prepared.
After I get 5 levels in monk I might do only 2 levels in druid and worry about if I want a level or two more later though. Especially if I only need 2 to get the wildshape my character wants. But once again, I'm still not 100% set on which path I take here, I'm still in the information gathering stage. And no worries about it being wordy, I am SUPER wordy, and I appreciate the thoroughness.
I did consider Circle of Shepherd due to the character worshiping a god that literally Incan herders worshiped... but mechanically, I don't see it as super useful, as two out of three party members are fairly good at handling animals already, the group's ranger can do that anytime with a ritual, and due to plot reasons the characters can currently communicate telepathically with their mounts. Talking to animals doesn't have quite as much utility at this point... though I agree it would make sense, I just don't know how much fun or mileage I'd get out of that compared to other circles.
Moon does have a lot of usefulness but as Gigaflop said, it would be tempting to just default to something like Dire Wolf like any other Moon Druid... and it becomes a bit of overkill. Though the temptation is REALLY strong there because applying my monk abilities to a CR 1 critter sounds very useful... but I can't help but feel I'm going for strength over storytelling at that point. Especially if the llama CR ends up being 1/8 or 1/4 as it seems like it should be. He'd probably not spend most of his time wildshaped in combat anyways...
Which still leaves me leaning towards Land but I still am a bit indecisive.
As for intoxicated frenzy... I'm not super sold on it as the 5 flurry of blows attacks must all be on different targets in one turn and the DM hasn't really seemed to put me (or anyone) in scenarios where we get surrounded. I don't know how often I'd really get to use intoxicated frenzy. Of course the 1d10 martial arts damage IS something I'd care more about, but I would be sacrificing an ASI for it and would be sacrificing an AC and either a damage point or Ki saving throw DC point (depending on if I take those points from dex or wis) just to get a possible 2 points more of damage. And yeah, that all IS assuming we go to level 20 and the one thing is, we don't exactly have a long term campaign, we just do smaller mini campaignswith these characters (most are standalone stories we can do in one sitting, though the current one should be three parts) due to most of the group being unable to commit to a full campaign at this time. So whether we go to level 20 is completely unknown... but I also like to be prepared.
After I get 5 levels in monk I might do only 2 levels in druid and worry about if I want a level or two more later though. Especially if I only need 2 to get the wildshape my character wants. But once again, I'm still not 100% set on which path I take here, I'm still in the information gathering stage. And no worries about it being wordy, I am SUPER wordy, and I appreciate the thoroughness.
Rangers don't have ritual casting (or arcane focus) without a feat. I looked into it recently, because one of my players is a ranger. Sorcerers, warlocks, rangers, paladins, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters don't have ritual casting. Rangers, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters can't use a focus.
Circle of land has great crowd control options at level 3. Level 4 gets you an extra 2nd level slot, brings natural recovery total spell slot level to 2, and gets you that 5th asi.
I can't help but see a circle of moon dip from monk as kung fu panda.
I did consider Circle of Shepherd due to the character worshiping a god that literally Incan herders worshiped... but mechanically, I don't see it as super useful, as two out of three party members are fairly good at handling animals already, the group's ranger can do that anytime with a ritual, and due to plot reasons the characters can currently communicate telepathically with their mounts. Talking to animals doesn't have quite as much utility at this point... though I agree it would make sense, I just don't know how much fun or mileage I'd get out of that compared to other circles.
Moon does have a lot of usefulness but as Gigaflop said, it would be tempting to just default to something like Dire Wolf like any other Moon Druid... and it becomes a bit of overkill. Though the temptation is REALLY strong there because applying my monk abilities to a CR 1 critter sounds very useful... but I can't help but feel I'm going for strength over storytelling at that point. Especially if the llama CR ends up being 1/8 or 1/4 as it seems like it should be. He'd probably not spend most of his time wildshaped in combat anyways...
Which still leaves me leaning towards Land but I still am a bit indecisive.
As for intoxicated frenzy... I'm not super sold on it as the 5 flurry of blows attacks must all be on different targets in one turn and the DM hasn't really seemed to put me (or anyone) in scenarios where we get surrounded. I don't know how often I'd really get to use intoxicated frenzy. Of course the 1d10 martial arts damage IS something I'd care more about, but I would be sacrificing an ASI for it and would be sacrificing an AC and either a damage point or Ki saving throw DC point (depending on if I take those points from dex or wis) just to get a possible 2 points more of damage. And yeah, that all IS assuming we go to level 20 and the one thing is, we don't exactly have a long term campaign, we just do smaller mini campaignswith these characters (most are standalone stories we can do in one sitting, though the current one should be three parts) due to most of the group being unable to commit to a full campaign at this time. So whether we go to level 20 is completely unknown... but I also like to be prepared.
After I get 5 levels in monk I might do only 2 levels in druid and worry about if I want a level or two more later though. Especially if I only need 2 to get the wildshape my character wants. But once again, I'm still not 100% set on which path I take here, I'm still in the information gathering stage. And no worries about it being wordy, I am SUPER wordy, and I appreciate the thoroughness.
Rangers don't have ritual casting (or arcane focus) without a feat. I looked into it recently, because one of my players is a ranger. Sorcerers, warlocks, rangers, paladins, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters don't have ritual casting. Rangers, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters can't use a focus.
Circle of land has great crowd control options at level 3. Level 4 gets you an extra 2nd level slot, brings natural recovery total spell slot level to 2, and gets you that 5th asi.
I can't help but see a circle of moon dip from monk as kung fu panda.
Well, since the Ranger spell list includes Speak to Animals, our DM is letting the Ranger use that spell. So it doesn't change my point that my access to that ability wouldn't have as much utility given one party member already can do that and we currently have telepathic links to our mounts.
Yeah I'm still leaning towards Land.
I suppose Monk with Moon dip IS Kung Fu Panda... huh... is there a panda on the official character list or would that be homebrew? Just curious, haha
First time I've posted here, hope this is the appropriate place to ask:
So I am currently playing a campaign as a monk of the drunken master variety. He's sorta comic relief at this point (probably stereotypical for drunken master but maybe not, I've never played in a campaign with a monk of any kind before let alone drunken master, and he was like that before I even picked to go with that path) and he has a large affinity for a specific exotic animal. To the point where the DM (half-jokingly) suggested I multiclass into a druid so I can shapeshift into it - it's not a particularly good animal for combat (or any other useful reason to shapeshift into) but I ended up realizing... this character's story arc is realistically heading that way. I've never actually multiclassed before though and I don't wanna make poor choices that leave me useless in combat scenarios as we are a three person party. I have been looking up the basics of multiclassing, finding tips like to wait until I'm level 5 (so I get my extra attack ASAP), be mindful of ASIs and feats, etc etc... but given the specifics of my scenario, I haven't found any direct examples of this hypothetical multiclass: drunken master monk with some druid added in. He'd still have more levels as a monk, I think...
Additional info: I think it'd work in that I'm not too attached to the final monk abilities. This sounds as good a time as any for me to try my hand at multiclassing for the first time, and I assume some of it is trial and error and that enjoying my character is more important than maximizing battle efficiency. But to some degree, I don't want to fall behind the other party members either in usefulness, as my only real skill the character has consistently shown out of battle (outside of adding levity to the game) has been a godly level of performance (singing in celestial while playing the lyre, keep nailing the dice rolls in those moments). I want to remain at least fairly useful during the battles. I saw monk/barbarian or even monk/fighter as possibilities with drunken master, but those don't make much sense with his lore.
1) Would this be a realistically effective combination?
2) What level should I dip into druid and when do I pull out?
Any other advice would be appreciated, I don't really have experience with this. And I don't know what level we're going to either (we do a lot of short adventures, sorta episodic, not a lot of overarching plot, it's stop and go) so I think it wouldn't make sense to wait until a high level to do this... unless it's the only way to remain viable.
A Druid dip seems kinda weird from my perspective, mechanics-wise. You’d have to go far into Druid to get any real benefits out of wild shape, because as a Monk you’re already decent in melee combat range as well as flexible off the battlefield. If you wanted to go Druid for the story factor, one or two levels is all you should go (in my opinion anyway). But that’s from someone who doesn’t know all the details or how you play the character. Gaining spells would certainly round out a character’s flaws, especially if you were interested in taking spells that would help more outside of combat.
Any caster relies heavily upon their level progression in order to get stronger, as that’s what determines how many spells they have. In a similar fashion, Monks depend heavily (more so than other martial classes, I’d say) on their levels, since so many of their abilities (and their Ki) rely on class levels.
In short, it’s a weird combination, but it’s not the *worst* thing you can do. And if you enjoy playing that kind of character concept, then go for it! But be warned that you most likely will fall off in some capacity during combat from the others who are not multiclassing.
EDIT: I’ve just realized I have personal experience in something similar. I once played a Sorcerer who multiclassed into Monk for story reasons. Although I had an absolute blast playing it, I definitely did notice that my combat prowess was not up to par with the rest of the party.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
it sounds great!
druid seems to gel with this character story and I think you would have fun.
as for how big a dip, that totally depends on what you are after, if you only want basic wildshape you only need level 2, if you are trying for a flying shape well that is a much bigger committment.
you will have to pick a circle too, I am not sure if really need moon if you are just trying for basic wildshape. circle of the land could really be fun depending on what you pick.
my main concern would be, martial arts in wild shape. I imagine they do not line up but it will be tempting to ask for it and possibly break the game
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Thank you for the response!
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502248-Ultimate-Optimizer-s-Multiclassing-Guide
This is actually one of the places I found briefly touching on Druid/Monk, it implied it would be alright but was fairly vague and didn't mention subclasses so I wasn't sure if drunken master still meshes. I could take whatever few spells I get for utility outside of fights but I likely would stick to fighting up close, given the other classes are a gloom stalker ranger and death domain cleric, I've been the one trying to get in between them and the foes in most fights (between decent AC, ki dodging, and healing from cleric, I've been more or less effective thus far). I realize it would not be exactly maximizing my potential though, just wanted to make sure I wouldn't become entirely useless - I talked briefly with the DM to feel out the idea and he basically said that, should he notice any shift in combat prowess, he'd take that into account as he's more interested in story telling than seeing us go for as much power as possible (unless that is the character's goal). In terms of what I'd lose as a monk, the main concern of mine comes down to ki points (as those are fairly limited in early levels). I was guessing maybe doing 4 levels so I don't miss on any ASIs (or possibly feats), and was debating whether to do it after I hit level 5 (I want the extra attack before anything else) or wait until after level 8 (so I can get one more ASI or feat first). It's mostly planning ahead at this point as we are about to hit level 4. But hey, I love putting thought into my options ahead of time.
Thanks! I've mostly had fun with this character, it's not my deepest character but it's an interesting change of pace to play someone who's much more... impulsive.
I was thinking possibly 4 levels so I don't lose a potential ASI or feat, though if it's not that big a deal I could just do 2. The creature in particular that he's fixated on are llamas (for religious reasons) which I've found listed as 1/2 CR (wasn't sure if it was official or homebrew, the DM showed me the stats when he first brought up the druid joke). So basically, for story purposes he either needs to have 2 levels in Circle of the Moon or 4 levels in any other circle. Is there a particular reason you think Land could be better? I'm still exploring the options there. As for martial arts... when I went back to the DM to hear his serious thoughts on the matter, he ruled I'd get to keep those abilities when wild shaped, which could mitigate my worries of losing too much combat prowess - I doubt even this character would charge into battle as a llama (which are laughably weak) but some of the stronger wildshapes could be pretty dang powerful. And wildshape isn't entirely out of character anyways for him because he DOES worship a god of animals and has an affinity for nature. But like, I would still like to hear what you think the biggest benefits of the land circle would be because the added utility is admittedly tempting.
mainly the additional cantrip from land; and cantrips do scale with character level so this becomes a great ranged option well into your future.
I recommend, assuming level 4 druid of the land (mountain), picking, thorn whip, guidance, mold earth, and frostbite. all seem utility and/or mountain theme. thorn whip can move a guy towards you, since you are melee I thought that would be a nice fit.
land also gives you natural recovery at level 2 which is pretty righteous!
I picked mountain because I think llamas are mountain animals
moon gets 2 cantrips at level 1 and total 3 at level 4 so not too bad
going moon you may be tempted to just turn into a dire wolf like every other moon druid, I like the 4 level journey to becoming a llama myself
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I don't think the llama is an official creature, so perhaps ask the DM if you can reskin a mule as a llama - which looks absolutely perfect to me. As a 1/8 creature you could access it at Land Druid level two, along with your 3 llama cantrips and llama mediation spell slot recovery. 3 cantrips and 5 lvl 1 spells per day, plus llama form, all for two levels of druid. You could use your llama form to carry heavy loads and climb dangerous mountains, also for comic effects which is a perfectly valid use. Give any spell chosen a nice llama skin and you're ready to go. I would suggest "Freezing Wind of the Llama Mountain" / Frostbite, "Wisdom of the Llama" / Guidance, and "Llama's Feet Shape the Earth" / Mold Earth.
there ya go! llama power!!!
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Hmm, sounds good, and yes, llamas are mountain animals, I had to look up some base knowledge for my character. I will take that path and spells into consideration, especially since I have tinkered with a moon druid before but not land!
The DM already found what seems to be a homebrew llama that's a 1/2 CR creature so if I went down this path, that's what he'd use... which is perfectly usable with a Land Druid level four. I do like the idea of renaming his cantrips/spells to fit the theme.
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked for some input, I wasn't even considering land druid but I'm liking the idea. I think once I get to level 5 I'll likely go through with this. :) I'm excited to finally try multiclassing!
1/2 just seems really high for a Llama is all. There is a single Llama in the homebrew section on this site which is a 1/2 creature, but that is some sort of specific psychic llama that seems related to a unique character from that person's story. A normal llama should surely sit somewhere around a mule/camel (1/8) or at most a cow/elk (1/4). 1/2 is for the larger predators, magically giant beasts and dangerous swarms - not a normal llama...
pffft!!! you obviously don't know anything about llamas and their greatness. Recent studies show they are up to 4 times greater than camels or mules!
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
A Circle of Dreams druid sounds appropriate for a character that routinely passes out and dreams about being a llama. Balm of The Summer Court is pretty useful in a pinch, too. It’s nice because it has double the range of healing word and can be used while wild shaped. Monks also retain their unarmored defense and movement bonus while wild shaped, so you could definitely win in llama racing events. This llama would also be an exceptional mount for being able to run up walls, run across water, and slow fall while carrying a rider.
Pretty sure a llama should just be a reskin of Mule, maybe raise str and con a bit and take away sure footed, CR 1/8.
That aside, anyone else think it would be funny to take circle of shepherd druid and talk to animals? The Spirit Totem also has a lot of support usefulness. It doesn't really outshine the others in terms of strength, but has unique role play options.
The circle of land druid has a higher quantity of spells, from the extra cantrip, 2 circle spells at level 3, and natural recovery getting you an extra spell slot (or 2) once per day. At a 4 level dip, I think this offers the most.
Circle of moon gets you basically whatever wildshape you wanted from other circles in just 2 levels, and you can transform as a bonus action instead to make an attack same turn. You still have 3 level 1 slots for utility spells (druids have great utility even at low level), optionally, moon druids can burn spell slots to heal their wildshape. This is probably the best if you want to have only 2 or 3 levels druid.
My personal opinion (assuming your DM uses a llama with lower CR, unless you go moon druid), is to take only 2 or 3 levels druid so you can get the drunken master's intoxicated frenzy and 1d10 monk weapon damage (also assuming your campaign goes to level 20). This is also assuming you do not want the extra 2nd level slot or better natural recovery if you go circle of land.
Sorry that got so wordy. I had more to say the more I looked into the options. I hope its useful.
Oh geez, I'm getting so many options here!
Yeah it does, I'll have to talk to him about that. The CR 1/2 does seem high in comparison to other animals, I'm starting to wonder if I misread it now? I don't know, I feel like I'm going crazy, because looking at the creature list... it doesn't seem correct.
Well he's never passed out and dreamed about that so idk if that fits flavor-wise, he more of looks up to them... sort of like how cows are sacred in most Hindu beliefs? I think the best comparison would be, due to his god Urcuchillay (an Incan god) has the appearance of a llama so he sees them as representing a higher state. As useful as Balm of the Summer Court is, if I go with that circle I'd be picking that for mechanics and less for the flavor.
But I do like that I should have unarmored defense and movement bonus while wild shaped. Not that I plan to fight as a llama but... hey, never know when we'll get ambushed!
I did consider Circle of Shepherd due to the character worshiping a god that literally Incan herders worshiped... but mechanically, I don't see it as super useful, as two out of three party members are fairly good at handling animals already, the group's ranger can do that anytime with a ritual, and due to plot reasons the characters can currently communicate telepathically with their mounts. Talking to animals doesn't have quite as much utility at this point... though I agree it would make sense, I just don't know how much fun or mileage I'd get out of that compared to other circles.
Moon does have a lot of usefulness but as Gigaflop said, it would be tempting to just default to something like Dire Wolf like any other Moon Druid... and it becomes a bit of overkill. Though the temptation is REALLY strong there because applying my monk abilities to a CR 1 critter sounds very useful... but I can't help but feel I'm going for strength over storytelling at that point. Especially if the llama CR ends up being 1/8 or 1/4 as it seems like it should be. He'd probably not spend most of his time wildshaped in combat anyways...
Which still leaves me leaning towards Land but I still am a bit indecisive.
As for intoxicated frenzy... I'm not super sold on it as the 5 flurry of blows attacks must all be on different targets in one turn and the DM hasn't really seemed to put me (or anyone) in scenarios where we get surrounded. I don't know how often I'd really get to use intoxicated frenzy. Of course the 1d10 martial arts damage IS something I'd care more about, but I would be sacrificing an ASI for it and would be sacrificing an AC and either a damage point or Ki saving throw DC point (depending on if I take those points from dex or wis) just to get a possible 2 points more of damage. And yeah, that all IS assuming we go to level 20 and the one thing is, we don't exactly have a long term campaign, we just do smaller mini campaignswith these characters (most are standalone stories we can do in one sitting, though the current one should be three parts) due to most of the group being unable to commit to a full campaign at this time. So whether we go to level 20 is completely unknown... but I also like to be prepared.
After I get 5 levels in monk I might do only 2 levels in druid and worry about if I want a level or two more later though. Especially if I only need 2 to get the wildshape my character wants. But once again, I'm still not 100% set on which path I take here, I'm still in the information gathering stage. And no worries about it being wordy, I am SUPER wordy, and I appreciate the thoroughness.
Rangers don't have ritual casting (or arcane focus) without a feat. I looked into it recently, because one of my players is a ranger. Sorcerers, warlocks, rangers, paladins, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters don't have ritual casting. Rangers, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters can't use a focus.
Circle of land has great crowd control options at level 3. Level 4 gets you an extra 2nd level slot, brings natural recovery total spell slot level to 2, and gets you that 5th asi.
I can't help but see a circle of moon dip from monk as kung fu panda.
Well, since the Ranger spell list includes Speak to Animals, our DM is letting the Ranger use that spell. So it doesn't change my point that my access to that ability wouldn't have as much utility given one party member already can do that and we currently have telepathic links to our mounts.
Yeah I'm still leaning towards Land.
I suppose Monk with Moon dip IS Kung Fu Panda... huh... is there a panda on the official character list or would that be homebrew? Just curious, haha
Nope. Just reskin the smaller bear, CR 1/2 Black Bear, or maybe a CR 1/4 Giant Badger.