I am currently levelling a human variant bard, only level 2, but I intend for storytelling and thematic reasons to multiclass into a hexblade at least at level one. This leads me to wonder where go with my bard college at level 3.
I would like to play as a melee bard. I did think of taking moderately armoured feat and going into College of Swords. Then as my campaign storyline developed the option of the hexblade came up which means I didnt need to do this if I chose to multiclass into hexblade.
I am not sure how well Swords synergises with Hexblade. Is it better to go Valour with hexblade or Lore with Hexblade to try and get a bit of the best of both worlds.
I am in a small party, so I need to have some utility. Thanks for any advice...
College of Swords bard gets medium armor proficiency anyway, so the feat was never necessary. You gotta admit - College of Swords Hexblade has a consistent theme.
Lore Bards don't get Extra Attack so aren't great unless you're planning to get at least 5 levels of Hexblade.
The college of Whispers is pretty offensive in melee, by letting you do +2d6 psychic on a hit by burning a bardic inspiration. On top of that, their Words of Terror creepo ability seems like it kind of fits with being a spooky Hexblade. At higher levels of each, stealing someone's shadow when they die near to you (Bard 6) and being able to raise their soul as an undead thrall (warlock 6) also feel like they go hand in hand thematically.
Valor and Swords are also decent, but like you said, it's redundant with Hexblade. Lore is honestly a pretty strong Bard subclass too since it gets you Magical Secrets so much earlier, to allow you to do things like learn Find Steed or something else fun that you wouldn't normally have. Synergies don't always mean piling up everything that keys off of melee onto one character, sometimes it means "okay, 1 level of Hexblade already made me great at melee, which frees me up to diversify more with my Bard features without worry about that."
I'm a low level (3rd) Bard so I just made the same choice. This is my first 5e character so I didn't know what I was going to do, but I was going to play this fellow as solely a Bard.
I chose College of Lore after a long think. It was hard for me to find a way to make the bard effective enough as a warrior without totally giving into feats and no attribute boosts. But not going with medium armor seemed like I was never going to be comfortable when the shiny pointy things started flying. But going Lore gives me the extra magic boost at level 6 where I can get any two spells I want from the first three (spell) levels of all classes. I plan to take Counterspell and probably Fireball, because it is iconic. I think that with fireball I can wipe out a mess of minions and let the party charge the boss quicker.
I'm playing a Bard for the RP reasons. If you're not into RP, then you probably will find your niche in C-O-Swords, C-O-Whispers or C-O-Valor.
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Hmmm, I see your point. I sort of feel I want to go Lore bard, but keep up a strong melee option...
Just a few levels (2 preferably) of fighter, paladin, or hexblade can fully establish your needed melee prowess (except extra attack). Then you can go whatever bard college you like and be able to hold your own as a gish build. College of swords gets extra attack and blade flourishes to really lean into melee build and whispers has a pseudo smite that stacks with divine smite (probably makes up for no extra attack). Lore leans more toward caster than melee, but at least you will have armor and shield.
Keep in mind that as long as you pick up that Eldritch Blast cantrip, once you hit 5 levels total, you can now hit two separate targets with it. Might be close enough to extra attack to make up for it for some.
Keep in mind that as long as you pick up that Eldritch Blast cantrip, once you hit 5 levels total, you can now hit two separate targets with it. Might be close enough to extra attack to make up for it for some.
True that. And for a melee build, booming blade and/or green flame-blade are also good cantrips that scale with level and use weapon damage.
I went 2 levels of Hexblade with my Lore Bard and love it. You really won't want to go more than 2 levels in Warlock. I don't know how the melee part will work for you though as I got agonizing blast for ranged and mask of many faces for RP. I doubt you will be able to do as much melee damage as a ranged caster using EB and agonizing blast, but if that's not what you like to play then it really doesn't matter. The extra AC for medium armor and a shield is great along with getting shield for free and a couple pact slots for a short rest. All in all, my favorite character to play.
College of Swords bard gets medium armor proficiency anyway, so the feat was never necessary. You gotta admit - College of Swords Hexblade has a consistent theme.
I agree - it works well from a RP/storytelling standpoint. If it was me, I'd go sword bard up to level 4 to get the ASI. Then, your feats of blade performance attract the notice of a patron and you take a level of Hexblade. I'd want to get three levels of that at some point to get pact of the blade, but taking any more than that would job you out of 9th level spells, which you probably don't want to do.
EDIT: Actually, pact of the blade doesn't do much for you - the main reason to get that would be for improved pact weapon, but sword bards can already use a weapon as a spell focus. So, the real reason to go to level 3 would be to bump your pact slots to 2nd level. If you don't care about that, then the question becomes whether you'd rather take a 2nd level of hexblade to get the invocations or whether you'd rather swap those for the level 19 ASI in bard.
College of Swords bard gets medium armor proficiency anyway, so the feat was never necessary. You gotta admit - College of Swords Hexblade has a consistent theme.
I agree - it works well from a RP/storytelling standpoint. If it was me, I'd go sword bard up to level 4 to get the ASI. Then, your feats of blade performance attract the notice of a patron and you take a level of Hexblade. I'd want to get three levels of that at some point to get pact of the blade, but taking any more than that would job you out of 9th level spells, which you probably don't want to do.
EDIT: Actually, pact of the blade doesn't do much for you - the main reason to get that would be for improved pact weapon, but sword bards can already use a weapon as a spell focus. So, the real reason to go to level 3 would be to bump your pact slots to 2nd level. If you don't care about that, then the question becomes whether you'd rather take a 2nd level of hexblade to get the invocations or whether you'd rather swap those for the level 19 ASI in bard.
Pact of the Blade also lets you summon/banish the weapon, and lets you use CHA for your melee attacks. Using CHA is a nice way to be able to focus on just one ability score. The other part of the Pact is great for getting around those "you're imprisoned and all your equipment has been taken away" situations.
College of Swords bard gets medium armor proficiency anyway, so the feat was never necessary. You gotta admit - College of Swords Hexblade has a consistent theme.
I agree - it works well from a RP/storytelling standpoint. If it was me, I'd go sword bard up to level 4 to get the ASI. Then, your feats of blade performance attract the notice of a patron and you take a level of Hexblade. I'd want to get three levels of that at some point to get pact of the blade, but taking any more than that would job you out of 9th level spells, which you probably don't want to do.
EDIT: Actually, pact of the blade doesn't do much for you - the main reason to get that would be for improved pact weapon, but sword bards can already use a weapon as a spell focus. So, the real reason to go to level 3 would be to bump your pact slots to 2nd level. If you don't care about that, then the question becomes whether you'd rather take a 2nd level of hexblade to get the invocations or whether you'd rather swap those for the level 19 ASI in bard.
Pact of the Blade also lets you summon/banish the weapon, and lets you use CHA for your melee attacks. Using CHA is a nice way to be able to focus on just one ability score. The other part of the Pact is great for getting around those "you're imprisoned and all your equipment has been taken away" situations.
Hexblades can already use CHA for the attack through their Hex Warrior ability. That's why a 1-level dip in Hexblade is awesome for pretty much any CHA-based caster class. The "you're never unarmed" part is good, though.
Another reason to splash 3 warlock (pact of the blade) instead of stopping at Hexblade 2 for invocations or 1 for just the ability to attack with CHA, is if you want to be using a two-handed weapon. Pact of the Blade opens up a two handed weapons, while Hexblade 1 just leaves you with one-handed melee.
Another reason to splash 3 warlock (pact of the blade) instead of stopping at Hexblade 2 for invocations or 1 for just the ability to attack with CHA, is if you want to be using a two-handed weapon. Pact of the Blade opens up a two handed weapons, while Hexblade 1 just leaves you with one-handed melee.
And, there's also the fact that it just makes thematic sense for a sword bard to take the pact of the blade. Mechanically, though, I'd probably just go to level 2. Taking Mask of Many Faces and Agonizing Blast is worth the loss of the level 19 ASI. And having first level pact magic slots is fine - you can reserve them for casting Hex or Shield.
EDIT: I note that it's unlikely you'd want to use a 2H weapon with this build - the Sword Bard only gets dueling and 2WF as fighting styles, so you'd likely stick with one of those.
So the next question is mostly how much warlock are you willing to take, and when do you want to take them. If we look at potential end game (longshot to plan that far) you are looking at losing your Superior Inspiration, additional ASI, and the last Magical Secrets, for 1, 2, or 3 level multiclass. The exchange for them are (in level order) the armor, shield, weapon proficiencies and charisma for attacks and eldritch blast. Extra spell slot for short rest, and eldritch invocations, lastly higher spell slot level and you pact boon (assuming probably blade but you could take something else if you felt like it).
Pretty much all three of those levels are very useful ability boosts. You also have to consider how much you are willing to ****** your bardic progression. The first warlock level is great at anytime for the proficiencies alone to make you a more competent combatant. The second level is more of a utility one (extra spell slot, invocations) and I would place it somewhat further down the line unless you have an invocation you are just in love with. The third level gets the extra oomph out of your short rest but I would certainly put it after probably 6 in bard so you can get your secrets for some spell diversity.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
So the next question is mostly how much warlock are you willing to take, and when do you want to take them. If we look at potential end game (longshot to plan that far) you are looking at losing your Superior Inspiration, additional ASI, and the last Magical Secrets, for 1, 2, or 3 level multiclass. The exchange for them are (in level order) the armor, shield, weapon proficiencies and charisma for attacks and eldritch blast. Extra spell slot for short rest, and eldritch invocations, lastly higher spell slot level and you pact boon (assuming probably blade but you could take something else if you felt like it).
Pretty much all three of those levels are very useful ability boosts. You also have to consider how much you are willing to ****** your bardic progression. The first warlock level is great at anytime for the proficiencies alone to make you a more competent combatant. The second level is more of a utility one (extra spell slot, invocations) and I would place it somewhat further down the line unless you have an invocation you are just in love with. The third level gets the extra oomph out of your short rest but I would certainly put it after probably 6 in bard so you can get your secrets for some spell diversity.
Yeah. To me, a third level in Warlock for pact of the blade and 2nd level pact slots isn't worth losing magical secrets, but a 2nd level for the invocations and one more spell slot is worth the loss of the ASI. The invocations also have more utility earlier on, so I'd probably go Bard 1-4, Warlock 1-2, Bard 5-18.
Also, I'd point out that you're kinda-sorta getting "Magical Secrets" by taking a level of Warlock - you're getting to pick two spells from outside the Bard spell list.
Hi guys.
I am currently levelling a human variant bard, only level 2, but I intend for storytelling and thematic reasons to multiclass into a hexblade at least at level one. This leads me to wonder where go with my bard college at level 3.
I would like to play as a melee bard. I did think of taking moderately armoured feat and going into College of Swords. Then as my campaign storyline developed the option of the hexblade came up which means I didnt need to do this if I chose to multiclass into hexblade.
I am not sure how well Swords synergises with Hexblade. Is it better to go Valour with hexblade or Lore with Hexblade to try and get a bit of the best of both worlds.
I am in a small party, so I need to have some utility. Thanks for any advice...
College of Swords bard gets medium armor proficiency anyway, so the feat was never necessary. You gotta admit - College of Swords Hexblade has a consistent theme.
Lore Bards don't get Extra Attack so aren't great unless you're planning to get at least 5 levels of Hexblade.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Oh yeah, so they do, my mistake, but they don't get shield proficiency.
The college of Whispers is pretty offensive in melee, by letting you do +2d6 psychic on a hit by burning a bardic inspiration. On top of that, their Words of Terror creepo ability seems like it kind of fits with being a spooky Hexblade. At higher levels of each, stealing someone's shadow when they die near to you (Bard 6) and being able to raise their soul as an undead thrall (warlock 6) also feel like they go hand in hand thematically.
Valor and Swords are also decent, but like you said, it's redundant with Hexblade. Lore is honestly a pretty strong Bard subclass too since it gets you Magical Secrets so much earlier, to allow you to do things like learn Find Steed or something else fun that you wouldn't normally have. Synergies don't always mean piling up everything that keys off of melee onto one character, sometimes it means "okay, 1 level of Hexblade already made me great at melee, which frees me up to diversify more with my Bard features without worry about that."
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I would do college of swords. The blade flourishes go well with hex warrior.
Hmmm, I see your point. I sort of feel I want to go Lore bard, but keep up a strong melee option...
I'm a low level (3rd) Bard so I just made the same choice. This is my first 5e character so I didn't know what I was going to do, but I was going to play this fellow as solely a Bard.
I chose College of Lore after a long think. It was hard for me to find a way to make the bard effective enough as a warrior without totally giving into feats and no attribute boosts. But not going with medium armor seemed like I was never going to be comfortable when the shiny pointy things started flying. But going Lore gives me the extra magic boost at level 6 where I can get any two spells I want from the first three (spell) levels of all classes. I plan to take Counterspell and probably Fireball, because it is iconic. I think that with fireball I can wipe out a mess of minions and let the party charge the boss quicker.
I'm playing a Bard for the RP reasons. If you're not into RP, then you probably will find your niche in C-O-Swords, C-O-Whispers or C-O-Valor.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Just a few levels (2 preferably) of fighter, paladin, or hexblade can fully establish your needed melee prowess (except extra attack). Then you can go whatever bard college you like and be able to hold your own as a gish build. College of swords gets extra attack and blade flourishes to really lean into melee build and whispers has a pseudo smite that stacks with divine smite (probably makes up for no extra attack). Lore leans more toward caster than melee, but at least you will have armor and shield.
Well, hexblade at 5 can get you an extra attack.
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So can fighter and paladin, but then you miss out on wish, and I never recommend a build that is only a few levels off from getting wish.
Keep in mind that as long as you pick up that Eldritch Blast cantrip, once you hit 5 levels total, you can now hit two separate targets with it. Might be close enough to extra attack to make up for it for some.
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True that. And for a melee build, booming blade and/or green flame-blade are also good cantrips that scale with level and use weapon damage.
I went 2 levels of Hexblade with my Lore Bard and love it. You really won't want to go more than 2 levels in Warlock. I don't know how the melee part will work for you though as I got agonizing blast for ranged and mask of many faces for RP. I doubt you will be able to do as much melee damage as a ranged caster using EB and agonizing blast, but if that's not what you like to play then it really doesn't matter. The extra AC for medium armor and a shield is great along with getting shield for free and a couple pact slots for a short rest. All in all, my favorite character to play.
I agree - it works well from a RP/storytelling standpoint. If it was me, I'd go sword bard up to level 4 to get the ASI. Then, your feats of blade performance attract the notice of a patron and you take a level of Hexblade. I'd want to get three levels of that at some point to get pact of the blade, but taking any more than that would job you out of 9th level spells, which you probably don't want to do.
EDIT: Actually, pact of the blade doesn't do much for you - the main reason to get that would be for improved pact weapon, but sword bards can already use a weapon as a spell focus. So, the real reason to go to level 3 would be to bump your pact slots to 2nd level. If you don't care about that, then the question becomes whether you'd rather take a 2nd level of hexblade to get the invocations or whether you'd rather swap those for the level 19 ASI in bard.
Pact of the Blade also lets you summon/banish the weapon, and lets you use CHA for your melee attacks. Using CHA is a nice way to be able to focus on just one ability score. The other part of the Pact is great for getting around those "you're imprisoned and all your equipment has been taken away" situations.
Hexblades can already use CHA for the attack through their Hex Warrior ability. That's why a 1-level dip in Hexblade is awesome for pretty much any CHA-based caster class. The "you're never unarmed" part is good, though.
Another reason to splash 3 warlock (pact of the blade) instead of stopping at Hexblade 2 for invocations or 1 for just the ability to attack with CHA, is if you want to be using a two-handed weapon. Pact of the Blade opens up a two handed weapons, while Hexblade 1 just leaves you with one-handed melee.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
And, there's also the fact that it just makes thematic sense for a sword bard to take the pact of the blade. Mechanically, though, I'd probably just go to level 2. Taking Mask of Many Faces and Agonizing Blast is worth the loss of the level 19 ASI. And having first level pact magic slots is fine - you can reserve them for casting Hex or Shield.
EDIT: I note that it's unlikely you'd want to use a 2H weapon with this build - the Sword Bard only gets dueling and 2WF as fighting styles, so you'd likely stick with one of those.
So the next question is mostly how much warlock are you willing to take, and when do you want to take them. If we look at potential end game (longshot to plan that far) you are looking at losing your Superior Inspiration, additional ASI, and the last Magical Secrets, for 1, 2, or 3 level multiclass. The exchange for them are (in level order) the armor, shield, weapon proficiencies and charisma for attacks and eldritch blast. Extra spell slot for short rest, and eldritch invocations, lastly higher spell slot level and you pact boon (assuming probably blade but you could take something else if you felt like it).
Pretty much all three of those levels are very useful ability boosts. You also have to consider how much you are willing to ****** your bardic progression. The first warlock level is great at anytime for the proficiencies alone to make you a more competent combatant. The second level is more of a utility one (extra spell slot, invocations) and I would place it somewhat further down the line unless you have an invocation you are just in love with. The third level gets the extra oomph out of your short rest but I would certainly put it after probably 6 in bard so you can get your secrets for some spell diversity.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Yeah. To me, a third level in Warlock for pact of the blade and 2nd level pact slots isn't worth losing magical secrets, but a 2nd level for the invocations and one more spell slot is worth the loss of the ASI. The invocations also have more utility earlier on, so I'd probably go Bard 1-4, Warlock 1-2, Bard 5-18.
Also, I'd point out that you're kinda-sorta getting "Magical Secrets" by taking a level of Warlock - you're getting to pick two spells from outside the Bard spell list.