I’m actually pretty happy with the updates to the martials, it finally feels like they are getting somewhere (aside from the monk). The casters, though, I feel like definitely need some work, I was really disappointed that necromancer was not chosen as a wizard subclass, after evocation, that was the most logical one to go with. I feel like the way they could’ve done wizard was you have your classical wizard (blasting spells, shields, that kind of thing) then necromancer or summoner (obviously for summoning things) then mind mage because we definitely should have one (for controlling things and illusions) then, finally, a transfigurations expert for turning things into other things.
I feel like these choices would make more sense than what we got because they all feel more independent.
Yeah, I feel like sticking with the schools of magic and only doing half of them isn't the best way to go about things. I'd like to see each subclass be a combination of two, or maybe a more unique change to the base class a la Bladesinger with each specialty being represented by a Divine Order/Pact Boon-esque decision. If each subclass is a combination of two, then I'd imagine:
War Mage (Evocation/Abjuration)
Fate Weaver (Divination/Necromancy)
Illusionist (Illusion/Enchantment)
Alterer (Transmutation/Conjuration)
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Yeah, I feel like sticking with the schools of magic and only doing half of them isn't the best way to go about things. I'd like to see each subclass be a combination of two, or maybe a more unique change to the base class a la Bladesinger with each specialty being represented by a Divine Order/Pact Boon-esque decision. If each subclass is a combination of two, then I'd imagine:
War Mage (Evocation/Abjuration)
Fate Weaver (Divination/Necromancy)
Illusionist (Illusion/Enchantment)
Alterer (Transmutation/Conjuration)
That’s exactly what I was trying to say. You worded it much better.
Yeah, I feel like sticking with the schools of magic and only doing half of them isn't the best way to go about things. I'd like to see each subclass be a combination of two, or maybe a more unique change to the base class a la Bladesinger with each specialty being represented by a Divine Order/Pact Boon-esque decision. If each subclass is a combination of two, then I'd imagine:
War Mage (Evocation/Abjuration)
Fate Weaver (Divination/Necromancy)
Illusionist (Illusion/Enchantment)
Alterer (Transmutation/Conjuration)
Gives me mtg vibes. Not in a bad way... spells that hold up on their own, spells that blur classes, or, more interesting spells that can combine with spells.
I'd want it to be sorcerer specific as they manipulate magic, but a special class of cantrips that you can combine 2 (or eventually 3) of to get new effects or combos with. At the cost of a spell slot. Booming blade with fire bolt to get a spell that works like fire bolt but for each enemy it hits it splits to hit 2 more in a 10 ft radius at half the spells initial damage.
Combine cure wounds with a different buff to get a unique spell. Like healing word plus faerie fire creates an aura of healing that heals 1d4 per round for 3 rounds.
It would take some massive charts, but it would be unique as hell.
Edit: expanding on this, actually you could have something of a random spell table for effect based on school similar to the mixing potions tables and toss it towards the wild magic sorcerer as well.
I wonder if the whole "4 subclasses per class" thing is a red herring. The last time they said 4 subclasses per, was way back when they were still grouping the classes into Warrior, Expert, etc. Maybe they are getting a feel for a "template" for the school subclasses (since Wizard class & subclass features are kinda sparse compared to other classes anyway). And once they have that school subclass template, they'll publish the rest of the schools? I dunno- just spit-ballin here. Cuz, yeah- it doesn't make much sense to only include some schools & not others.
I had similar thoughts about Cleric Domains, but since those aren't directly linked to spells by an actual school name, I gave them a bit of a pass.
Yeah, I feel like sticking with the schools of magic and only doing half of them isn't the best way to go about things. I'd like to see each subclass be a combination of two, or maybe a more unique change to the base class a la Bladesinger with each specialty being represented by a Divine Order/Pact Boon-esque decision. If each subclass is a combination of two, then I'd imagine:
War Mage (Evocation/Abjuration)
Fate Weaver (Divination/Necromancy)
Illusionist (Illusion/Enchantment)
Alterer (Transmutation/Conjuration)
I've always thought the college specialization thing should just be a baseline class feature similar to Orders for clerics and now druids. They would all give a similar baseline bonus (easier to memorize a spell of that school from a scroll or book) along with one or two other features that make you better at casting spells of that school.
The subclasses should be more about how you use those spells than what spells you're using. Spellsword for a melee caster. Maybe Enchanter for a support caster. Summoner for a minion build.
Then you can apply your school on the subclass. You could be a Spellsword with evocations that focus on raw damage or an illusionist who fades in and out of sight while cutting enemies down with a sword. Or you can be a transmuter Summoner who morphs their conjured minions into new things or a necromancer summoner focusing on the undead.
I wonder if the whole "4 subclasses per class" thing is a red herring. The last time they said 4 subclasses per, was way back when they were still grouping the classes into Warrior, Expert, etc. Maybe they are getting a feel for a "template" for the school subclasses (since Wizard class & subclass features are kinda sparse compared to other classes anyway). And once they have that school subclass template, they'll publish the rest of the schools? I dunno- just spit-ballin here. Cuz, yeah- it doesn't make much sense to only include some schools & not others.
I had similar thoughts about Cleric Domains, but since those aren't directly linked to spells by an actual school name, I gave them a bit of a pass.
4 per class for the handbook so they can sell you additional classes later on...
I feel as though the subclasses that weren’t covered were the ones that need the most adjustments when it comes to mechanics.
Necromancy was a subclass that was significantly geared towards building undead minions…but the type of minions were heavily limited; and the management of those minions were a source of contention (they “slow down” gameplay, etc…).
Plus, there’s more to Necromancy than just skeletons and zombies…incorporeal undead being a whole other bag of chips. Manipulating spirit energy or turning transparent, things like that.
I suspect that they are going to expand on this subclass substantially; which is why it is among the delayed subclasses.
Similarly, Transmutation is often regarded as the wizard subclass that was almost the most bland (perhaps with Abjuration; but Abjuration at least had undeniably solid features).
While Transmutation SPELLS are some of the best in the game; the subclass for wizards was very niche and disappointing…a transmuters stone that provided very small boosts at early levels…a Polymorph use that was also limited…and the very situational ability to turn small amounts of materials into other things.
The capstone for Transmutation was pretty solid; but taken as a whole, the subclass needs a lot of work.
…so I am very excited to see what WotC will do with it. Again, I think it wasn’t included with this playtest because it needs the most adjusting.
If they were to, say, delve into the biological morphing side of Transmutation…even doing something cool with mutations…that would be pretty sweet.
Anyway, I think the other wizard subclasses will be forthcoming.
I feel as though the subclasses that weren’t covered were the ones that need the most adjustments when it comes to mechanics.
Necromancy was a subclass that was significantly geared towards building undead minions…but the type of minions were heavily limited; and the management of those minions were a source of contention (they “slow down” gameplay, etc…).
Plus, there’s more to Necromancy than just skeletons and zombies…incorporeal undead being a whole other bag of chips. Manipulating spirit energy or turning transparent, things like that.
I suspect that they are going to expand on this subclass substantially; which is why it is among the delayed subclasses.
Similarly, Transmutation is often regarded as the wizard subclass that was almost the most bland (perhaps with Abjuration; but Abjuration at least had undeniably solid features).
While Transmutation SPELLS are some of the best in the game; the subclass for wizards was very niche and disappointing…a transmuters stone that provided very small boosts at early levels…a Polymorph use that was also limited…and the very situational ability to turn small amounts of materials into other things.
The capstone for Transmutation was pretty solid; but taken as a whole, the subclass needs a lot of work.
…so I am very excited to see what WotC will do with it. Again, I think it wasn’t included with this playtest because it needs the most adjusting.
If they were to, say, delve into the biological morphing side of Transmutation…even doing something cool with mutations…that would be pretty sweet.
Anyway, I think the other wizard subclasses will be forthcoming.
The Necromancer is really a cool concept, but as you said, for D&D it must not hurt the pace of the game. The approach should be:
1) More Necromancy spells options for damage at lower levels.
2) Redesign of Toll of the Dead.(Merge with Chill Touch would be cool)
3) Not a army of undead ( Pace and management problems), but a strong summon would be an option.
I feel as though the subclasses that weren’t covered were the ones that need the most adjustments when it comes to mechanics.
Necromancy was a subclass that was significantly geared towards building undead minions…but the type of minions were heavily limited; and the management of those minions were a source of contention (they “slow down” gameplay, etc…).
Plus, there’s more to Necromancy than just skeletons and zombies…incorporeal undead being a whole other bag of chips. Manipulating spirit energy or turning transparent, things like that.
I suspect that they are going to expand on this subclass substantially; which is why it is among the delayed subclasses.
Similarly, Transmutation is often regarded as the wizard subclass that was almost the most bland (perhaps with Abjuration; but Abjuration at least had undeniably solid features).
While Transmutation SPELLS are some of the best in the game; the subclass for wizards was very niche and disappointing…a transmuters stone that provided very small boosts at early levels…a Polymorph use that was also limited…and the very situational ability to turn small amounts of materials into other things.
The capstone for Transmutation was pretty solid; but taken as a whole, the subclass needs a lot of work.
…so I am very excited to see what WotC will do with it. Again, I think it wasn’t included with this playtest because it needs the most adjusting.
If they were to, say, delve into the biological morphing side of Transmutation…even doing something cool with mutations…that would be pretty sweet.
Anyway, I think the other wizard subclasses will be forthcoming.
The Necromancer is really a cool concept, but as you said, for D&D it must not hurt the pace of the game. The approach should be:
1) More Necromancy spells options for damage at lower levels.
2) Redesign of Toll of the Dead.(Merge with Chill Touch would be cool)
3) Not a army of undead ( Pace and management problems), but a strong summon would be an option.
Funnily enough, this was why I was glad when the “Summon Undead Spirit” came out with TCoE; and became a Necromancy spell.
It paired REALLY well with the Necromancy Wizard; creating a beefed-up undead bodyguard that could be a skeleton, zombie or ghost, and was easy to manage.
Necromancy wouldn't be that hard to fix. There are all sorts of summons in the game, lots of casters have them. So having minions isn't the issue.
Just make the undead more powerful and less numerous. You don't need 15 wimpy skeletons that fall apart in a stiff breeze, but suck up all the game time. Let necros make fewer but more powerful minions. That fixes the entire complaint people have with necromancy.
Moreso overall, wizards are so dang bland. Sure you specialize in a school, but every wizard can still cast every wizard spell. No other class suffers from the fact that you cannot tell them apart. All wizards are pretty much the same. Its soo boring.
I’m actually pretty happy with the updates to the martials, it finally feels like they are getting somewhere (aside from the monk). The casters, though, I feel like definitely need some work, I was really disappointed that necromancer was not chosen as a wizard subclass, after evocation, that was the most logical one to go with. I feel like the way they could’ve done wizard was you have your classical wizard (blasting spells, shields, that kind of thing) then necromancer or summoner (obviously for summoning things) then mind mage because we definitely should have one (for controlling things and illusions) then, finally, a transfigurations expert for turning things into other things.
I feel like these choices would make more sense than what we got because they all feel more independent.
Yeah, I feel like sticking with the schools of magic and only doing half of them isn't the best way to go about things. I'd like to see each subclass be a combination of two, or maybe a more unique change to the base class a la Bladesinger with each specialty being represented by a Divine Order/Pact Boon-esque decision. If each subclass is a combination of two, then I'd imagine:
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
That’s exactly what I was trying to say. You worded it much better.
Gives me mtg vibes. Not in a bad way... spells that hold up on their own, spells that blur classes, or, more interesting spells that can combine with spells.
I'd want it to be sorcerer specific as they manipulate magic, but a special class of cantrips that you can combine 2 (or eventually 3) of to get new effects or combos with. At the cost of a spell slot. Booming blade with fire bolt to get a spell that works like fire bolt but for each enemy it hits it splits to hit 2 more in a 10 ft radius at half the spells initial damage.
Combine cure wounds with a different buff to get a unique spell. Like healing word plus faerie fire creates an aura of healing that heals 1d4 per round for 3 rounds.
It would take some massive charts, but it would be unique as hell.
Edit: expanding on this, actually you could have something of a random spell table for effect based on school similar to the mixing potions tables and toss it towards the wild magic sorcerer as well.
Just food for thought.
I wonder if the whole "4 subclasses per class" thing is a red herring. The last time they said 4 subclasses per, was way back when they were still grouping the classes into Warrior, Expert, etc. Maybe they are getting a feel for a "template" for the school subclasses (since Wizard class & subclass features are kinda sparse compared to other classes anyway). And once they have that school subclass template, they'll publish the rest of the schools? I dunno- just spit-ballin here. Cuz, yeah- it doesn't make much sense to only include some schools & not others.
I had similar thoughts about Cleric Domains, but since those aren't directly linked to spells by an actual school name, I gave them a bit of a pass.
Schools of Magic, at first looks super cool, but in fact is super restrictive.
If the concept of Wizard is flexibility, this sounds much better:
I've always thought the college specialization thing should just be a baseline class feature similar to Orders for clerics and now druids. They would all give a similar baseline bonus (easier to memorize a spell of that school from a scroll or book) along with one or two other features that make you better at casting spells of that school.
The subclasses should be more about how you use those spells than what spells you're using. Spellsword for a melee caster. Maybe Enchanter for a support caster. Summoner for a minion build.
Then you can apply your school on the subclass. You could be a Spellsword with evocations that focus on raw damage or an illusionist who fades in and out of sight while cutting enemies down with a sword. Or you can be a transmuter Summoner who morphs their conjured minions into new things or a necromancer summoner focusing on the undead.
4 per class for the handbook so they can sell you additional classes later on...
I feel as though the subclasses that weren’t covered were the ones that need the most adjustments when it comes to mechanics.
Necromancy was a subclass that was significantly geared towards building undead minions…but the type of minions were heavily limited; and the management of those minions were a source of contention (they “slow down” gameplay, etc…).
Plus, there’s more to Necromancy than just skeletons and zombies…incorporeal undead being a whole other bag of chips. Manipulating spirit energy or turning transparent, things like that.
I suspect that they are going to expand on this subclass substantially; which is why it is among the delayed subclasses.
Similarly, Transmutation is often regarded as the wizard subclass that was almost the most bland (perhaps with Abjuration; but Abjuration at least had undeniably solid features).
While Transmutation SPELLS are some of the best in the game; the subclass for wizards was very niche and disappointing…a transmuters stone that provided very small boosts at early levels…a Polymorph use that was also limited…and the very situational ability to turn small amounts of materials into other things.
The capstone for Transmutation was pretty solid; but taken as a whole, the subclass needs a lot of work.
…so I am very excited to see what WotC will do with it. Again, I think it wasn’t included with this playtest because it needs the most adjusting.
If they were to, say, delve into the biological morphing side of Transmutation…even doing something cool with mutations…that would be pretty sweet.
Anyway, I think the other wizard subclasses will be forthcoming.
The Necromancer is really a cool concept, but as you said, for D&D it must not hurt the pace of the game. The approach should be:
1) More Necromancy spells options for damage at lower levels.
2) Redesign of Toll of the Dead.(Merge with Chill Touch would be cool)
3) Not a army of undead ( Pace and management problems), but a strong summon would be an option.
Funnily enough, this was why I was glad when the “Summon Undead Spirit” came out with TCoE; and became a Necromancy spell.
It paired REALLY well with the Necromancy Wizard; creating a beefed-up undead bodyguard that could be a skeleton, zombie or ghost, and was easy to manage.
Necromancy wouldn't be that hard to fix. There are all sorts of summons in the game, lots of casters have them. So having minions isn't the issue.
Just make the undead more powerful and less numerous. You don't need 15 wimpy skeletons that fall apart in a stiff breeze, but suck up all the game time. Let necros make fewer but more powerful minions. That fixes the entire complaint people have with necromancy.
Moreso overall, wizards are so dang bland. Sure you specialize in a school, but every wizard can still cast every wizard spell. No other class suffers from the fact that you cannot tell them apart. All wizards are pretty much the same. Its soo boring.