Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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im making a character that is an aasimar and i wanna do warlock but my favorite is undead warlock. I was going to do Leira as a her patron but im wondering if people would think that works or if its too much of a stretch? Im thinking it works because its believed the Leira is dead but shes not. let me know your thoughts. I just dont like celestial warlock..
Patrons are often gods. I don't see the problem.
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Eh... really the general theme for Warlocks as presented is it's a different paradigm from the Cleric mortal/deity one, with something besides gods on the patron side of the equation. The 2014 PHB very explicitly says that Warlock patrons aren't gods in the D&D sense, and even "do whatever" 2024 conspicuously doesn't include gods themselves in the list of example patrons, either in general or for the Celestial Warlock in particular. Not familiar with Leira as a character/figure in any of the lore, so I can't speak to that directly, but if she's a full deity she's outside the indicated pool of patrons, and if she's not actually dead/undead or anything it's rather a stretch to try and make a character who is associated with her and gets undeath related powers from it.
I suppose one option if you absolutely must have both those points could be that your pact is with the ghost of a saint or something associated with the deity who has somehow come into play. Provides correlation to both the powers and the ultimate figure.
Player & DM should choose patron, but in the end the Warlock can make a pact who just about anything, even another entity than it think. Leira, being the Goddess of Deception & Illusion believed to be dead could play on this aspect. Undead essentially say you've made a pact with a deathless being, a creature that defies the cycle and life and death afterall. By the late 15th century DR, it became known that Leira was in fact alive and delighted in the confusion created by rumors of her demise and return....
I would allow an Aasimar Undead Warlock of Leira without problem if one my player wanted to play that.
If interested in additional lore, one of Leira alias is Mistshadow, and her manifestion typically include:
I would think Myrkul is a better choice for a Paladin that also makes a warlock contract with undead as liches have served Myrkul before, so Myrkul as a Cleric Patron and one of Myrkul's Cleric-Liches as a Warlock Patron would work. That said I am not familiar enough with Leira to know if Leira had Lich followers or not.
Imo, as a DM, my workaround would be coordinating with my player to create an NPC that serves the god.
Let’s say there was a lich or vampire that swore allegiance to the god before they were transformed into an undead. They strayed from their oath and violated themselves into becoming a monster. The god, pitying their vassal but also wanting to teach them a lesson, keeps them in their current form but calls on them to fulfill their oath and serve the god as a herald or representative.
Warlock makes pact with said creature, serving the god through said pact. Profit.
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In the Forgotten Realm lore, Leira is the Deity of Illusion, while Mask is the Deity of Thievery and Deceit. Choosing either of them as warlock Patrons is probably ill-advised. Undead Patrons are probably grouped under either the Fiend category or the Great Old One category. The High Court of the Fey probably will refuse to have anything to do with Undead beings and Celestial Patrons will also bar Undead Patrons from their company as well.
Given that she is the FR deity of lies and illusions and may (or may not) have been dead for much of the 4e time period it’s not a complete stretch to have her acting like a patron to help confuse the issue of whether she is alive or dead.
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Depends on how you interpret the baseline mechanics of Patrons- as I said, 2014 was explicit about the patrons not being gods, and notably Vecna- the lich who became a god of necromancy- is not listed as one of the example patrons for the Undead subclass. End of the day your table, your setting, your call for all that, but lore-wise it’s indicated that deities don’t operate on the right wavelength to directly sponsor Warlocks.
Ah, I had not known about the Ravenloft setting, partly because my DM is not interested in dealing with that setting.
In the case of Celestial Patrons, I had always assumed that the Patron was either a Deva, a Planetar or a Solar that was sponsoring warlock clients in accordance with an overarching strategy by a deity. Similarly, the NPC cambion named Lorcan might sponsor warlock clients in obedience to a strategy that is administered by Asmodeus.
I don't know of any reason why a God could not make a deal. I can think of reasons why many might not want to, but no rule to say that they cannot do so. I can also see reasons why a God would WANT to.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Depending on which edition of D&D you are using and depending on which campaign setting you are using, deities may prefer to NOT deal directly with mortals. In the Forgotten Realms setting, as a result of the Avatar event (aka 'The Time of Troubles') and the Spell plague event, deities keep a certain distance between themselves and mortals, preferring to use intermediaries to convey messages to mortals.
The easiest answer- and the one implicit per the 2014 description- is that the magic doesn’t work that way. When a god bestows spellcasting power, you get a Cleric or Paladin. Divine magic functions as X, but Warlocks function under Y. Again, not an absolute immovable pillar of the game, but they’ve been very consistent in the lore about not listing deities as patrons.
implicit in 2014 and now deleted. I view that pillar as moved because it was dumb.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If you're looking for a "canon" entity that is both deity and warlock patron, The Raven Queen qualifies. Bonus points since she's a deity of death, so wouldn't need to be dead herself.
Which is why they started listing deities as patrons in the 2024 PHB, especially for the Celestial subclass. Oh, wait...
As I've said, you do you, but it remains pretty implicit in their 2024 and beyond stuff.
implict does not mean explicit.
If you want explict, let's look at the Great Old One: ...unspeakable being from the Far Realm or an elder god...
You go ahead and do you as well. I think that by omission and explictly saying so for GOO, that gods are now on the menu if you want.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I believe 2014 does a better job of showing the intention of what is and is not a valid warlock patron but does have the conflict of both saying that Warlock Patrons aren't gods but having GOO say Elder Gods. So this either means that Elder Gods are considered as something different to gods or there is another caveat going and I believe that was also described well in 2014.
It makes no sense on the part of a Deity, that if they can have clerics serving them that they would also spend the time to personally deal with warlocks, instead of just making them become clerics too. An Elder God of the Far Realm likely has little to no power within the Mortal Plane or Outer Planes and thus has no clerics serving them, as such to try and extend their influence into those planes, they would have to engage with Warlocks and Cults.
Now beings that can serve as gods might also have underlings that might serve as Warlock Patrons, Hexblade is a great example of this, some of the more notable Hexblade Patrons were created by the Raven Queen, the Raven Queen isn't going to deal with Warlocks directly but could indirectly via a proxy such as a Hexblade.
Of course a DM at table can run it how they want but this is how I believe this is the most likely intention of what makes a valid Warlock Patron, and it's basically any powerful entity that does not have clerics serving them (at least in the targeted realm), looking to spread their influence.
Now, if somebody has a pact and then that god somehow manages to get enough influence or the warlock travels to a plane/realm where that god has influence, that warlock would remain a warlock as the pact in question would still remain in effect despite being somewhere that, that god has clerics.