If you want explict, let's look at the Great Old One: ...unspeakable being from the Far Realm or an elder god...
You go ahead and do you as well. I think that by omission and explictly saying so for GOO, that gods are now on the menu if you want.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I believe 2014 does a better job of showing the intention of what is and is not a valid warlock patron but does have the conflict of both saying that Warlock Patrons aren't gods but having GOO say Elder Gods. So this either means that Elder Gods are considered as something different to gods or there is another caveat going and I believe that was also described well in 2014.
A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. A warlock might lead a cult dedicated to a demon prince, an archdevil, or an utterly alien entity — beings not typically served by clerics.
It makes no sense on the part of a Deity, that if they can have clerics serving them that they would also spend the time to personally deal with warlocks, instead of just making them become clerics too. An Elder God of the Far Realm likely has little to no power within the Mortal Plane or Outer Planes and thus has no clerics serving them, as such to try and extend their influence into those planes, they would have to engage with Warlocks and Cults.
Now beings that can serve as gods might also have underlings that might serve as Warlock Patrons, Hexblade is a great example of this, some of the more notable Hexblade Patrons were created by the Raven Queen, the Raven Queen isn't going to deal with Warlocks directly but could indirectly via a proxy such as a Hexblade.
Of course a DM at table can run it how they want but this is how I believe this is the most likely intention of what makes a valid Warlock Patron, and it's basically any powerful entity that does not have clerics serving them (at least in the targeted realm), looking to spread their influence.
Now, if somebody has a pact and then that god somehow manages to get enough influence or the warlock travels to a plane/realm where that god has influence, that warlock would remain a warlock as the pact in question would still remain in effect despite being somewhere that, that god has clerics.
and 2014 is gone. 2024 has arrived. Have a blessed day.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
and 2014 is gone. 2024 has arrived. Have a blessed day.
And, again, 2024 still has not given a single example of a deity as a Patron. Thus, common sense indicates that they intend the trend started in 2014 to continue in official material. If you want to do it differently that’s your prerogative, but the closest mention of deities as the term applies to 5e is “elder gods”, and I don’t recall seeing Cthulhu or Nyarlhotep or Shoggoth or any other Lovecraftian names listed in any tables of gods for a setting.
Drawing on the ancient knowledge of beings such as angels, archfey, demons, devils, hags, and alien entities of the Far Realm, Warlocks piece together arcane secrets to bolster their own power.
Gods aren't listed as a type of Patron, however Elder Gods from the Far Realm would still be valid as warlock patrons since they are entities of the Far Realm. However Elder Gods of the Far Realm would not have clerics, they are of the Far Realm, not the Prime Material Plane or Outer Realms. So it's really not invalidated anything, just 2014 describes things better than 2024 does in regards to this.
Now beings that can serve as gods might also have underlings that might serve as Warlock Patrons, Hexblade is a great example of this, some of the more notable Hexblade Patrons were created by the Raven Queen, the Raven Queen isn't going to deal with Warlocks directly but could indirectly via a proxy such as a Hexblade.
I do not know where Raven Queen has been officially listed as a Patron?
I know there was a UA for Raven Queen as a Patron but it never reached official release, most likely due to the existence of Hexblade, which shifts the Patron from The Raven Queen herself to servants acting as Patrons.
Something I already covered previously by instead suggesting Myrkul, whom as a god has Lich servants and Lich Priests/Clerics which would serve as Undead Patrons quiet nicely while allowing the character to be a devout follower of Myrkul. Which works in the same vein as the Raven Queen and Hexblade patrons that act beneath her.
Now beings that can serve as gods might also have underlings that might serve as Warlock Patrons, Hexblade is a great example of this, some of the more notable Hexblade Patrons were created by the Raven Queen, the Raven Queen isn't going to deal with Warlocks directly but could indirectly via a proxy such as a Hexblade.
I do not know where Raven Queen has been officially listed as a Patron?
I know there was a UA for Raven Queen as a Patron but it never reached official release, most likely due to the existence of Hexblade, which shifts the Patron from The Raven Queen herself to servants acting as Patrons.
Something I already covered previously by instead suggesting Myrkul, whom as a god has Lich servants and Lich Priests/Clerics which would serve as Undead Patrons quiet nicely while allowing the character to be a devout follower of Myrkul. Which works in the same vein as the Raven Queen and Hexblade patrons that act beneath her.
Because the Raven Queen is known to have forged the first of these weapons, many sages speculate that she and the force are one....
The “speculate” part is fairly operative in that quote as well. It’s one small and non-assertive blip in the trend. Again, not gonna insist everyone must not use gods as patrons, but none are listed for Celestial, none are listed for Undead when Vecna would probably be a more well known uber lich than Acererak, and Hexblade is noncommittal on the matter. It’s a clear trend in the lore.
Although probably a moot point given the age of the thread, I'll dip into earlier editions for inspiration should anyone want it:
Hoar aka: The Doombringer, The Poet of Justice, Lord of Three Thunders and Hurler of Thunder. Portfolio of powers: Revenge, Poetic Justice and Retribution. Alignment (if you use it): Lawful Neutral but worshippers alignments ran: LG, LN, LE, NG, NN, NE. In the old hierarchies of godly power Hoar was a Demi-power and dwelt on Mechanus and back in ad&d days he had a priesthood that could cast a spell to create a Revenenant. So you could port Hoar over to 5e and he could be the power behind a warlock, wherein you use the warlock class and possibly reborn race as a version of a revenant character. This might be some sort of punishment or maybe some quest Hoar has bestowed upon the PC for past mis-deeds.
Jergal aka: Lord of the End of Everything, Scribe of the Doomed, The Forgotten One, The Seneschal of the Crystal Spire, The Pitiless One. Portfolio of powers: Fatalism, Order in Death, Proper Burial, Guardian of Tombs, Protector of the Names of the Dead. Alignment (if you use it): Lawful Neutral but worshippers alignments ran: LG, LN, LE, NG, NN, NE. In the old hierarchies of godly power Jergal was a Demi-power and dwelt in the Gray Wastes. He worked with Kelemvor (the actual god of the dead) and Jergal could assume the form of any undead and gain all their respective abilities. To quote form the ad&d dogma for his religion: "Undeath is not an escape or a reward, it is simply a duty of the chosen few who worship the Lord of the End of Everything", so in this regard an undead or undying warlock may arise with Jergal as a patron and be task with collecting the names of the dead which might be rather fitting for a pact of tome warlock, interestingly in the blurb for Jergal it says when he appeared in avatar form he wouldn't wield a weapon so pact of blade warlocks would be rather rare.
Velshroon aka: The Vaunted, The Archmage of Necromancy, the Necromancer, The Lord of the Forsaken Crypt, Lord of the Forgotten Crypt, the Lich-Lord, Patron of Evil Liches. POrtfolio of powers; Necromancy, Necromancers, Lichdom, Evil Liches, Undeath. Alignment (if you use it): Neutral Evil but worshippers alignments ran: LN, LE, NN, NE, CN, CE. In the old hierarchies of godly power Velshroon was a Demi-power and dwelt on Gehenna. He's a god of necromancy...safe to say if he wants you to be an undead warlock he could do it whether your PC was willing or not.
These are the three I can be bothered to delve into at present, I'll fiinsh by saying the Gods were fleshed out to a much greater degree in ad&d and each had a type of cleric called a "speciality priest" affiliated with them, they came with all manner of special abilities and powers, so you could port the notion of a speciality priest over to 5e and use warlock to represent it.
implict does not mean explicit.
If you want explict, let's look at the Great Old One: ...unspeakable being from the Far Realm or an elder god...
You go ahead and do you as well. I think that by omission and explictly saying so for GOO, that gods are now on the menu if you want.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I believe 2014 does a better job of showing the intention of what is and is not a valid warlock patron but does have the conflict of both saying that Warlock Patrons aren't gods but having GOO say Elder Gods. So this either means that Elder Gods are considered as something different to gods or there is another caveat going and I believe that was also described well in 2014.
It makes no sense on the part of a Deity, that if they can have clerics serving them that they would also spend the time to personally deal with warlocks, instead of just making them become clerics too. An Elder God of the Far Realm likely has little to no power within the Mortal Plane or Outer Planes and thus has no clerics serving them, as such to try and extend their influence into those planes, they would have to engage with Warlocks and Cults.
Now beings that can serve as gods might also have underlings that might serve as Warlock Patrons, Hexblade is a great example of this, some of the more notable Hexblade Patrons were created by the Raven Queen, the Raven Queen isn't going to deal with Warlocks directly but could indirectly via a proxy such as a Hexblade.
Of course a DM at table can run it how they want but this is how I believe this is the most likely intention of what makes a valid Warlock Patron, and it's basically any powerful entity that does not have clerics serving them (at least in the targeted realm), looking to spread their influence.
Now, if somebody has a pact and then that god somehow manages to get enough influence or the warlock travels to a plane/realm where that god has influence, that warlock would remain a warlock as the pact in question would still remain in effect despite being somewhere that, that god has clerics.
and 2014 is gone. 2024 has arrived. Have a blessed day.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
And, again, 2024 still has not given a single example of a deity as a Patron. Thus, common sense indicates that they intend the trend started in 2014 to continue in official material. If you want to do it differently that’s your prerogative, but the closest mention of deities as the term applies to 5e is “elder gods”, and I don’t recall seeing Cthulhu or Nyarlhotep or Shoggoth or any other Lovecraftian names listed in any tables of gods for a setting.
That doesn't really change anything to my response tho, nothing I said is actually invalidated by changes to 2024.
Further to this, Warlock in 2024 does state this
Gods aren't listed as a type of Patron, however Elder Gods from the Far Realm would still be valid as warlock patrons since they are entities of the Far Realm. However Elder Gods of the Far Realm would not have clerics, they are of the Far Realm, not the Prime Material Plane or Outer Realms. So it's really not invalidated anything, just 2014 describes things better than 2024 does in regards to this.
I like how everyone just ignores the Raven Queen who has been listed as officially both a god and patron
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I do not know where Raven Queen has been officially listed as a Patron?
I know there was a UA for Raven Queen as a Patron but it never reached official release, most likely due to the existence of Hexblade, which shifts the Patron from The Raven Queen herself to servants acting as Patrons.
Something I already covered previously by instead suggesting Myrkul, whom as a god has Lich servants and Lich Priests/Clerics which would serve as Undead Patrons quiet nicely while allowing the character to be a devout follower of Myrkul. Which works in the same vein as the Raven Queen and Hexblade patrons that act beneath her.
From Hexblade
Edit: WotC left that door open.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
That's still not enough to say she is listed as an official patron, yes they left the door open but it was never confirmed.
The “speculate” part is fairly operative in that quote as well. It’s one small and non-assertive blip in the trend. Again, not gonna insist everyone must not use gods as patrons, but none are listed for Celestial, none are listed for Undead when Vecna would probably be a more well known uber lich than Acererak, and Hexblade is noncommittal on the matter. It’s a clear trend in the lore.
Although probably a moot point given the age of the thread, I'll dip into earlier editions for inspiration should anyone want it:
Hoar aka: The Doombringer, The Poet of Justice, Lord of Three Thunders and Hurler of Thunder. Portfolio of powers: Revenge, Poetic Justice and Retribution. Alignment (if you use it): Lawful Neutral but worshippers alignments ran: LG, LN, LE, NG, NN, NE. In the old hierarchies of godly power Hoar was a Demi-power and dwelt on Mechanus and back in ad&d days he had a priesthood that could cast a spell to create a Revenenant. So you could port Hoar over to 5e and he could be the power behind a warlock, wherein you use the warlock class and possibly reborn race as a version of a revenant character. This might be some sort of punishment or maybe some quest Hoar has bestowed upon the PC for past mis-deeds.
Jergal aka: Lord of the End of Everything, Scribe of the Doomed, The Forgotten One, The Seneschal of the Crystal Spire, The Pitiless One. Portfolio of powers: Fatalism, Order in Death, Proper Burial, Guardian of Tombs, Protector of the Names of the Dead. Alignment (if you use it): Lawful Neutral but worshippers alignments ran: LG, LN, LE, NG, NN, NE. In the old hierarchies of godly power Jergal was a Demi-power and dwelt in the Gray Wastes. He worked with Kelemvor (the actual god of the dead) and Jergal could assume the form of any undead and gain all their respective abilities. To quote form the ad&d dogma for his religion: "Undeath is not an escape or a reward, it is simply a duty of the chosen few who worship the Lord of the End of Everything", so in this regard an undead or undying warlock may arise with Jergal as a patron and be task with collecting the names of the dead which might be rather fitting for a pact of tome warlock, interestingly in the blurb for Jergal it says when he appeared in avatar form he wouldn't wield a weapon so pact of blade warlocks would be rather rare.
Velshroon aka: The Vaunted, The Archmage of Necromancy, the Necromancer, The Lord of the Forsaken Crypt, Lord of the Forgotten Crypt, the Lich-Lord, Patron of Evil Liches. POrtfolio of powers; Necromancy, Necromancers, Lichdom, Evil Liches, Undeath. Alignment (if you use it): Neutral Evil but worshippers alignments ran: LN, LE, NN, NE, CN, CE. In the old hierarchies of godly power Velshroon was a Demi-power and dwelt on Gehenna. He's a god of necromancy...safe to say if he wants you to be an undead warlock he could do it whether your PC was willing or not.
These are the three I can be bothered to delve into at present, I'll fiinsh by saying the Gods were fleshed out to a much greater degree in ad&d and each had a type of cleric called a "speciality priest" affiliated with them, they came with all manner of special abilities and powers, so you could port the notion of a speciality priest over to 5e and use warlock to represent it.