I am determined to actually fix the Ranger, once and for all, I'm fully (kinda) remaking them and I want them to feel fun to play and keep up in terms of power level.
So what's the actual problems with them, and what's the solutions?
People don't understand the rules of the game and/or how the game was designed and play the ranger incorrectly because of their lack of understanding and knowledge.
It is my belief that after Tasha's options the only thing that needs to be remedied is making Ranger a prepared caster instead of spells known. I was not always of this opinion, but I think that does it. For power level they keep up fine. Most of the subclasses are downright nasty and their spells start pulling their weight above 10th level.
It is my belief that after Tasha's options the only thing that needs to be remedied is making Ranger a prepared caster instead of spells known. I was not always of this opinion, but I think that does it. For power level they keep up fine. Most of the subclasses are downright nasty and their spells start pulling their weight above 10th level.
Huh, neat, would you say that they are a bit lacking at those earlier levels before their spells begin to carry?
Being able to swap spells daily would be pretty great for Rangers.
That said, I love playing my gloomstalker and I've never found it underpowered compared to other party members, not even before the subclass. We aren't even in the dark.
The thing I like about playing a prepared caster is that it lets me experiment more with different spells and also gives me more opportunities to think about ways to play the character for an upcoming situation between games. But, for people who don't like to do that, they can just pick their favorite spells and never swap them.
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
Being able to swap spells daily would be pretty great for Rangers.
That said, I love playing my gloomstalker and I've never found it underpowered compared to other party members, not even before the subclass. We aren't even in the dark.
The thing I like about playing a prepared caster is that it lets me experiment more with different spells and also gives me more opportunities to think about ways to play the character for an upcoming situation between games. But, for people who don't like to do that, they can just pick their favorite spells and never swap them.
Nice! What levels have you played your ranger through?
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
One of my players wants to play a Ranger, but isn’t super sure that it’ll keep up, and I want to make sure it’s super fun!
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
One of my players wants to play a Ranger, but isn’t super sure that it’ll keep up, and I want to make sure it’s super fun!
Keep up in which way(2)? What is their concern? Voice their concern(s) here and this collective will offer guidance on how to make sure everything goes swimmingly.
Damage has never been an issue with ranger the main problem is it appeals to lots of playstyles. Each playstyle has preferences that make certain skills/features more valuable than others. Some rangers need ambush tools others think it's a waste of power budget. Some want one pet but other want a "menagerie" of tradeable options.The list goes on but more often than not the complainers just want thier style to be the prominent one instead of building to the tools suitable for them. Scout rogue has its place so dose nature cleric or paladin.
We really were in the best place when tasha's became a mix and match tool set.
Now phb could use some wording cleanup or fixing but staying relatively the same isn't a bad mechanical set For those that plan on using it.
So, if this thread wantsactually discuss language cleanup to fix problems (and make RAI and RAW intersect) it would be more productive than "my style" requests or damage measure contests.
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
One of my players wants to play a Ranger, but isn’t super sure that it’ll keep up, and I want to make sure it’s super fun!
I think "keeping up" is a matter of what kind of encounters you have and who else is in the party. You also have the option to allow for equipment/magic items to rebalance party members somewhat if need be.
I enjoyed a smug moment when our party was traveling through a monster-infested area of difficult terrain that happened to be my Ranger's favored terrain. Turned out to be hugely beneficial. It's moments like that - where my character can do something that no one else can - that really make me feel great as a player. It's especially fun when I surprise the DM but it's also very fun when encounters happen to have elements that suit my character's skills.
With the subclasses and fighting styles, you can make some quite different Rangers, then add to that whatever racial traits you're working with.
Rangers have access to spells like Pass Without Trace that can be incredibly valuable to the party. If you want to see some fun and effective ranger builds in action, there's Vex from Critical Role, Liam from Dimension 20's A Crown of Candy, and Marcid the Typhoon in Dimension 20's Pirates of Leviathan.
I play a 12th level wood elf ranger (PHB vanilla version) and he's been fun to play and he's a capable character in the campaign. Part of it is also on the DM to provide opportunities for a character to shine. For the ranger it's about using his preferred enemies now and then, not only having dungeons and other places to explore but also wilderness encounters and adventures too. The only addition we made to the class is my ranger gets a damage bonus vs his preferred enemies, +1d6 at levels 1-4, +1d8 at levels 5-10, +1d10 at levels 11-14, and +1d12 at levels 15+. My preferred enemies are goblinoids, giants, and drow elves (elves) fyi.
I play a 12th level wood elf ranger (PHB vanilla version) and he's been fun to play and he's a capable character in the campaign. Part of it is also on the DM to provide opportunities for a character to shine. For the ranger it's about using his preferred enemies now and then, not only having dungeons and other places to explore but also wilderness encounters and adventures too. The only addition we made to the class is my ranger gets a damage bonus vs his preferred enemies, +1d6 at levels 1-4, +1d8 at levels 5-10, +1d10 at levels 11-14, and +1d12 at levels 15+. My preferred enemies are goblinoids, giants, and drow elves (elves) fyi.
I also have a wood elf ranger with favored enemy drow, it is very funny thematical. what is your subclass
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
One of my players wants to play a Ranger, but isn’t super sure that it’ll keep up, and I want to make sure it’s super fun!
My lvel 10 ranger Gloomstalker, 2nd lvl fighter dip is easly the most diverse and powerful player in our party. He is a Drow Crossbow expert with Sharp shooter. He tends to always have the highest inative in a battle and is know by our party as Mage Slayer. 1st round is so nova that I tend to take out the ememy casters or leaders before they realize were in combat. Plus so many skills for travel and stealthy events. Possibly overpowered honestly.
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
One of my players wants to play a Ranger, but isn’t super sure that it’ll keep up, and I want to make sure it’s super fun!
My lvel 10 ranger Gloomstalker, 2nd lvl fighter dip is easly the most diverse and powerful player in our party. He is a Drow Crossbow expert with Sharp shooter. He tends to always have the highest inative in a battle and is know by our party as Mage Slayer. 1st round is so nova that I tend to take out the ememy casters or leaders before they realize were in combat. Plus so many skills for travel and stealthy events. Possibly overpowered honestly.
Very good to know! Thank you, I think most of my concerns have been resolved(wrong word but that’s fine), thank you all for your help!
Though, I wouldn't mind if Ranger got a few maneuvers, with d4 dice, limited to something like pick 1of: Ambush, Bait and Switch, Distracting Strike, Evasive Footwork, Maneuvering Attack, Parry, Precision Attack, Riposte, Quick Toss, and Trip Attack. Then a few levels later get a second choice, and a 3rd choice at capstone.
Level 6 1d4, Level 11 2d4, level 17, 4d4, refresh only on long rest.
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Hey all!
I am determined to actually fix the Ranger, once and for all, I'm fully (kinda) remaking them and I want them to feel fun to play and keep up in terms of power level.
So what's the actual problems with them, and what's the solutions?
People don't understand the rules of the game and/or how the game was designed and play the ranger incorrectly because of their lack of understanding and knowledge.
It is my belief that after Tasha's options the only thing that needs to be remedied is making Ranger a prepared caster instead of spells known. I was not always of this opinion, but I think that does it. For power level they keep up fine. Most of the subclasses are downright nasty and their spells start pulling their weight above 10th level.
Huh, neat, would you say that they are a bit lacking at those earlier levels before their spells begin to carry?
Being able to swap spells daily would be pretty great for Rangers.
That said, I love playing my gloomstalker and I've never found it underpowered compared to other party members, not even before the subclass. We aren't even in the dark.
The thing I like about playing a prepared caster is that it lets me experiment more with different spells and also gives me more opportunities to think about ways to play the character for an upcoming situation between games. But, for people who don't like to do that, they can just pick their favorite spells and never swap them.
If you compare them to a fighter they have all the same martial capability with the exception of the 6th level feat. At best before 9th level they are attacking at 1 lower to hit and damage. Instead they have 1st and 2nd level spells. If they cast magic weapon they are now equal to the fighter and I would consider that a bad spell.
Compared to paladin I would prefer Ranger with the exception of the Paladin Aura. In general I think they do just fine for power compared to the other martials. There are individual levels where others pull ahead, but the Ranger is keeping up fine. If we want to compare them to casters its a different story, but the martial caster divide is just part of the system.
Nice! What levels have you played your ranger through?
I was worried about the martial caster divide, and perhaps that’s why Ranger doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe should. Thank you for your notes!
Have you already "fixed"the fighter, paladin, monk, rogue, and barbarian? If so, how did that go? If not, why start with the ranger?
ranger is fine RAW, it just requires you to use it smart, which if you think about it is quite thematically fitting.
One of my players wants to play a Ranger, but isn’t super sure that it’ll keep up, and I want to make sure it’s super fun!
Keep up in which way(2)? What is their concern? Voice their concern(s) here and this collective will offer guidance on how to make sure everything goes swimmingly.
If you want to keep up for damage, then take sharpshooter, play Drakewarden and call me in the morning.
If you want to keep up for spells and neat tricks take Swarm Keeper or Fey Wanderer. That should be good.
If you want to keep up for skills you are a Ranger and fine.
Damage has never been an issue with ranger the main problem is it appeals to lots of playstyles. Each playstyle has preferences that make certain skills/features more valuable than others. Some rangers need ambush tools others think it's a waste of power budget. Some want one pet but other want a "menagerie" of tradeable options.The list goes on but more often than not the complainers just want thier style to be the prominent one instead of building to the tools suitable for them. Scout rogue has its place so dose nature cleric or paladin.
We really were in the best place when tasha's became a mix and match tool set.
Now phb could use some wording cleanup or fixing but staying relatively the same isn't a bad mechanical set For those that plan on using it.
So, if this thread wantsactually discuss language cleanup to fix problems (and make RAI and RAW intersect) it would be more productive than "my style" requests or damage measure contests.
I think "keeping up" is a matter of what kind of encounters you have and who else is in the party. You also have the option to allow for equipment/magic items to rebalance party members somewhat if need be.
I enjoyed a smug moment when our party was traveling through a monster-infested area of difficult terrain that happened to be my Ranger's favored terrain. Turned out to be hugely beneficial. It's moments like that - where my character can do something that no one else can - that really make me feel great as a player. It's especially fun when I surprise the DM but it's also very fun when encounters happen to have elements that suit my character's skills.
With the subclasses and fighting styles, you can make some quite different Rangers, then add to that whatever racial traits you're working with.
Rangers have access to spells like Pass Without Trace that can be incredibly valuable to the party. If you want to see some fun and effective ranger builds in action, there's Vex from Critical Role, Liam from Dimension 20's A Crown of Candy, and Marcid the Typhoon in Dimension 20's Pirates of Leviathan.
I play a 12th level wood elf ranger (PHB vanilla version) and he's been fun to play and he's a capable character in the campaign. Part of it is also on the DM to provide opportunities for a character to shine. For the ranger it's about using his preferred enemies now and then, not only having dungeons and other places to explore but also wilderness encounters and adventures too. The only addition we made to the class is my ranger gets a damage bonus vs his preferred enemies, +1d6 at levels 1-4, +1d8 at levels 5-10, +1d10 at levels 11-14, and +1d12 at levels 15+. My preferred enemies are goblinoids, giants, and drow elves (elves) fyi.
Belegir, Wood Elf Ranger
I also have a wood elf ranger with favored enemy drow, it is very funny thematical. what is your subclass
My lvel 10 ranger Gloomstalker, 2nd lvl fighter dip is easly the most diverse and powerful player in our party. He is a Drow Crossbow expert with Sharp shooter. He tends to always have the highest inative in a battle and is know by our party as Mage Slayer. 1st round is so nova that I tend to take out the ememy casters or leaders before they realize were in combat. Plus so many skills for travel and stealthy events. Possibly overpowered honestly.
Very good to know! Thank you, I think most of my concerns have been resolved(wrong word but that’s fine), thank you all for your help!
How to fix Ranger:
Step 1: Play Gloomstalker
Congrats, you have fixed ranger.
-------------------
Though, I wouldn't mind if Ranger got a few maneuvers, with d4 dice, limited to something like pick 1of: Ambush, Bait and Switch, Distracting Strike, Evasive Footwork, Maneuvering Attack, Parry, Precision Attack, Riposte, Quick Toss, and Trip Attack. Then a few levels later get a second choice, and a 3rd choice at capstone.
Level 6 1d4, Level 11 2d4, level 17, 4d4, refresh only on long rest.