If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too.
How do you know what skill or skills line up with each tool? For example:
Each tool has an ability score associated with it (which are listed with the tool descriptions in chapter 6 of the Player's Handbook) but there are no pre-defined skills associated with each tool.
It's up to the DM to decide in the moment which skill, if any, applies to any particular ability check. Different skills might apply to the same tool depending on what exactly you're trying to do with it.
Just to add that for a Lock or a Manacle, an example of tool and skill is mentioned:
A Lock comes with a key. Without the key, a creature can use Thieves’ Tools to pick this Lock with a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.
Each set of Manacles comes with a key. Without the key, a creature can use Thieves’ Tools to pick the Manacles’ lock with a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.
Tools are associated with an ability, such as STRENGTH. So the skill used along with that tool should use the same ability.
For example, Carpentry tools is assiciated with STRENGTH so you would choose from the STRENGTH based skills. I'd probably go with Athletics for most of the strength tools.
Alchemist Tools are tied to INTELLIGENCE, so it would be used in conjunction with an Int based skill proficiency. Id probably go with Arcana if youre trying to do something with alchemy and magic like fugure out what a magical potion is without using the Identify spell, and Nature skill if youre doing something nonmagical with alchemical tools, like producing a modified version of alchemists fire.
Tools are associated with an ability, such as STRENGTH. So the skill used along with that tool should use the same ability.
For example, Carpentry tools is assiciated with STRENGTH so you would choose from the STRENGTH based skills. I'd probably go with Athletics for most of the strength tools.
Alchemist Tools are tied to INTELLIGENCE, so it would be used in conjunction with an Int based skill proficiency. Id probably go with Arcana if youre trying to do something with alchemy and magic like fugure out what a magical potion is without using the Identify spell, and Nature skill if youre doing something nonmagical with alchemical tools, like producing a modified version of alchemists fire.
And so on
It should be noted that while each skill has an ability score that it's usually associated with, there's no requirement in the rules that it always go along with that ability score, and (especially in the case of tool usage) there may often be cases where it makes more sense for it to be a different ability.
As stated in the rules, it's up to the DM to decide in each case which ability score and skill is appropriate.
While a DM always call which ability check to make in a given situation, a tool list the ability to use when making an ability check with at base.
Tools: A tool helps you make specialized ability checks, craft certain items, or both. A tool’s description includes the tool’s cost and weight, as well as the following entries:
Ability. This entry lists the ability to use when making an ability check with the tool.
Ability Checks: The DM and the rules often call for an ability check when a creature attempts something other than an attack that has a chance of meaningful failure.
Each skill proficiency is associated with an ability check. For example, the Intimidation skill is associated with Charisma. In some situations, the DM might allow you to apply your skill proficiency to a different ability check. For example, if a character tries to intimidate someone through a show of physical strength, the DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check rather than a Charisma (Intimidation) check. That character would make a Strength check and add their Proficiency Bonus if they have Intimidation proficiency.
--- This is from the 2014 PHB, which I consider still useful for DMs:
A tool helps you to do something you couldn't otherwise do, such as craft or repair an item, forge a document, or pick a lock. Your race, class, background, or feats give you proficiency with certain tools. Proficiency with a tool allows you to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check you make using that tool. Tool use is not tied to a single ability, since proficiency with a tool represents broader knowledge of its use.For example, the DM might ask you to make a Dexterity check to carve a fine detail with your woodcarver's tools, or a Strength check to make something out of particularly hard wood.
And this is from the 2014 DMG:
Having proficiency with a tool allows you to apply your proficiency bonus to an ability check you make using that tool. For example, a character proficient with carpenter’s tools can apply his or her proficiency bonus to a Dexterity check to craft a wooden flute, an Intelligence check to craft a wooden secret door, or a Strength check to build a working trebuchet. [...]
Each skill proficiency is associated with an ability check. For example, the Intimidation skill is associated with Charisma. In some situations, the DM might allow you to apply your skill proficiency to a different ability check. For example, if a character tries to intimidate someone through a show of physical strength, the DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check rather than a Charisma (Intimidation) check. That character would make a Strength check and add their Proficiency Bonus if they have Intimidation proficiency.
And this is, in fact, why skill checks are specified in that parenthetical style, saying "Charisma (Intimidation) check" instead of just "Intimidation check".
One place where I've seen this used in official material is the adventure Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, in which there are a few different opportunities to gain some temporary benefit by praying to some god or other, which are all specified as being Charisma (Religion) checks, despite Religion typically being associated with Intelligence.
I fully agree, and I also think another reason is that in D&D 5e, all checks are ability checks, and "skill check" doesn't technically exist. The community uses it, though, but as you said, the published materials always use "Ability (Skill)".
It could be useful knowing which skill is the "default" skill for a particular tool. When a player is building their character and pick up some tool proficiencies, knowing the "default" skill proficiency helps them choose skills that will help their tool checks.
If you have a tool proficiency, then having the associated skill proficiency too means all tool/skill checks add pb and roll with advantage.
It could be useful knowing which skill is the "default" skill for a particular tool. When a player is building their character and pick up some tool proficiencies, knowing the "default" skill proficiency helps them choose skills that will help their tool checks.
If you have a tool proficiency, then having the associated skill proficiency too means all tool/skill checks add pb and roll with advantage.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think the point is that there isn’t a default and that seems to be very intentional.
@SunIsGettingRealLow Also, you can get some ideas from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything (Tool Descriptions, p. 78), where some skills are suggested for each tool.
It could be useful knowing which skill is the "default" skill for a particular tool. When a player is building their character and pick up some tool proficiencies, knowing the "default" skill proficiency helps them choose skills that will help their tool checks.
If you have a tool proficiency, then having the associated skill proficiency too means all tool/skill checks add pb and roll with advantage.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think the point is that there isn’t a default and that seems to be very intentional.
Eh. Each skill and each tool is tied to an ability in the rule books. Its actually in the rules.
Carpentry is tied to strength
The only skill tied to strength is Athletics.
So, the default carpentry check is going to be
Carpentry/strength/athletics
And a carpentry tool check is going to come up how often in a campaign? Once? Twice? A player spent a resource for carpentry, and their wagon wheel broke and they are being chased by bad guys, and this is the one time in the whole campaign where they get to do a cool thing with Carpentry, and the dm asks the player to make an Intelligence/Persuasion/Carpentry tool check???
Nope.
Tool proficiencies are such low return on investment for the player that the dm should at the very least make sure the skill they ask the player to use with the tool both point to the same ability.
Alchemist tools are tied to intelligence.
And any alchemist check should use a skill also tied to intelligence.
Technically thats not in the rules, but realistically, i cant see a dm deviating from that except because they dont know the rules, skills, tools associatins, or they just want to mess with the player.
The only times i deviate from these associations is if it helps the player. Like when a druid player wanted to romance an npc druid but had dumped charisma, i said they both could connect on their down to earth wisdom, so i had them make a persuasion/wisdom check. That sort of thing.
Maybe some carpentry might rely on dexterity, but if the player is a barbarian with 20 str and 8 dex, with athletics and catpentey proficiencies, im sticking with what they have. If the weak thief has carpentry, i might switch things up to help.
But at least when building a character, players ought to be able to assume that MOST of their future skill/tool/ability checks should be combinations of skills and tools both associated with the same ability.
Eh. Each skill and each tool is tied to an ability in the rule books. Its actually in the rules.
Carpentry is tied to strength
The only skill tied to strength is Athletics.
So, the default carpentry check is going to be
Carpentry/strength/athletics
A Skill isn't necessarily used with the check, it could simply be a Strength check.
Or it could be a Strength (Athletics) check. DM will tell.
While a Strength check Athletics most often applies to, it doesn't necessarily always do. Another one might even apply if it choose to.
This goes for any ability check with a tool.
Skill Profifiency: Most ability checks involve using a skill, which represents a category of things creatures try to do with an ability check...The DM has the ultimate say on whether a skill is relevant in a situation.
Skill List: The skills are shown on the Skills table, which notes example uses for each skill proficiency as well as the ability check the skill most often applies to.
I personally think the better question might be what tools go best with what class.
For example, a woodcarving kit would go great with one who specializes in archery like a fighter or ranger might. There are of course exceptions, since different builds use different things, but I think you get my point. I have found different results online in searching that while trying to come up with my custom background builds for class theory-craft, so I do speak from some experience.
Eh. Each skill and each tool is tied to an ability in the rule books. Its actually in the rules.
Carpentry is tied to strength
The only skill tied to strength is Athletics.
So, the default carpentry check is going to be
Carpentry/strength/athletics
A Skill isn't necessarily used with the check, it could simply be a Strength check.
Or it could be a Strength (Athletics) check. DM will tell.
While a Strength check Athletics most often applies to, it doesn't necessarily always do. Another one might even apply if it choose to.
This goes for any ability check with a tool.
Skill Profifiency: Most ability checks involve using a skill, which represents a category of things creatures try to do with an ability check...The DM has the ultimate say on whether a skill is relevant in a situation.
Skill List: The skills are shown on the Skills table, which notes example uses for each skill proficiency as well as the ability check the skill most often applies to.
I think we were talking specifically about tool checks
And a tool check bonus is affected by
Ability modifier
Skill proficiency
Tool proficiency
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How do you know what skill or skills line up with each tool? For example:
Alchemist's Supplies
Carpenter's Tools,
Navigator's Tools
Each tool has an ability score associated with it (which are listed with the tool descriptions in chapter 6 of the Player's Handbook) but there are no pre-defined skills associated with each tool.
It's up to the DM to decide in the moment which skill, if any, applies to any particular ability check. Different skills might apply to the same tool depending on what exactly you're trying to do with it.
pronouns: he/she/they
When it comes to Skill, The DM has the ultimate say on whether a skill is relevant in a situation. For example;
With Alchemist's Supplies., you could Identify a substance or start a fire with an Intelligence (Nature) check
With Carpenter's Tools, you could seal or pry open a door or container with a Strength (Athletics) check
With Navigator's Tools, you could plot a course or determine position by stargazing with a Wisdom (Survival) check.
Just to add that for a Lock or a Manacle, an example of tool and skill is mentioned:
Tools are associated with an ability, such as STRENGTH. So the skill used along with that tool should use the same ability.
For example, Carpentry tools is assiciated with STRENGTH so you would choose from the STRENGTH based skills. I'd probably go with Athletics for most of the strength tools.
Alchemist Tools are tied to INTELLIGENCE, so it would be used in conjunction with an Int based skill proficiency. Id probably go with Arcana if youre trying to do something with alchemy and magic like fugure out what a magical potion is without using the Identify spell, and Nature skill if youre doing something nonmagical with alchemical tools, like producing a modified version of alchemists fire.
And so on
It should be noted that while each skill has an ability score that it's usually associated with, there's no requirement in the rules that it always go along with that ability score, and (especially in the case of tool usage) there may often be cases where it makes more sense for it to be a different ability.
As stated in the rules, it's up to the DM to decide in each case which ability score and skill is appropriate.
pronouns: he/she/they
While a DM always call which ability check to make in a given situation, a tool list the ability to use when making an ability check with at base.
Also:
---
This is from the 2014 PHB, which I consider still useful for DMs:
And this is from the 2014 DMG:
And this is, in fact, why skill checks are specified in that parenthetical style, saying "Charisma (Intimidation) check" instead of just "Intimidation check".
One place where I've seen this used in official material is the adventure Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, in which there are a few different opportunities to gain some temporary benefit by praying to some god or other, which are all specified as being Charisma (Religion) checks, despite Religion typically being associated with Intelligence.
pronouns: he/she/they
I fully agree, and I also think another reason is that in D&D 5e, all checks are ability checks, and "skill check" doesn't technically exist. The community uses it, though, but as you said, the published materials always use "Ability (Skill)".
It could be useful knowing which skill is the "default" skill for a particular tool. When a player is building their character and pick up some tool proficiencies, knowing the "default" skill proficiency helps them choose skills that will help their tool checks.
If you have a tool proficiency, then having the associated skill proficiency too means all tool/skill checks add pb and roll with advantage.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think the point is that there isn’t a default and that seems to be very intentional.
pronouns: he/she/they
@SunIsGettingRealLow Also, you can get some ideas from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything (Tool Descriptions, p. 78), where some skills are suggested for each tool.
EDIT: for clarity.
Eh. Each skill and each tool is tied to an ability in the rule books. Its actually in the rules.
Carpentry is tied to strength
The only skill tied to strength is Athletics.
So, the default carpentry check is going to be
Carpentry/strength/athletics
And a carpentry tool check is going to come up how often in a campaign? Once? Twice? A player spent a resource for carpentry, and their wagon wheel broke and they are being chased by bad guys, and this is the one time in the whole campaign where they get to do a cool thing with Carpentry, and the dm asks the player to make an Intelligence/Persuasion/Carpentry tool check???
Nope.
Tool proficiencies are such low return on investment for the player that the dm should at the very least make sure the skill they ask the player to use with the tool both point to the same ability.
Alchemist tools are tied to intelligence.
And any alchemist check should use a skill also tied to intelligence.
Technically thats not in the rules, but realistically, i cant see a dm deviating from that except because they dont know the rules, skills, tools associatins, or they just want to mess with the player.
The only times i deviate from these associations is if it helps the player. Like when a druid player wanted to romance an npc druid but had dumped charisma, i said they both could connect on their down to earth wisdom, so i had them make a persuasion/wisdom check. That sort of thing.
Maybe some carpentry might rely on dexterity, but if the player is a barbarian with 20 str and 8 dex, with athletics and catpentey proficiencies, im sticking with what they have. If the weak thief has carpentry, i might switch things up to help.
But at least when building a character, players ought to be able to assume that MOST of their future skill/tool/ability checks should be combinations of skills and tools both associated with the same ability.
A Skill isn't necessarily used with the check, it could simply be a Strength check.
Or it could be a Strength (Athletics) check. DM will tell.
While a Strength check Athletics most often applies to, it doesn't necessarily always do. Another one might even apply if it choose to.
This goes for any ability check with a tool.
I personally think the better question might be what tools go best with what class.
For example, a woodcarving kit would go great with one who specializes in archery like a fighter or ranger might. There are of course exceptions, since different builds use different things, but I think you get my point. I have found different results online in searching that while trying to come up with my custom background builds for class theory-craft, so I do speak from some experience.
I hope that helps!
I think we were talking specifically about tool checks
And a tool check bonus is affected by
Ability modifier
Skill proficiency
Tool proficiency