I am looking at a possible Moon Druid 2/Shadow Monk X build, but three things are not 100% clear to me. Any clarification, with justification, anyone could offer would be welcome.
Do Unarmed Strikes while in Wild Shape use the proficiency bonus of the beast or the character?
I know that they would use the STR or DEX of the creature, but what about the proficiency bonus?
I believe that it would be the proficiency bonus of the character, since you generally take the higher of the two, and because you retain the benefit of any feature from your class, which would include your proficiency bonus
Do beasts without Multiattack use the Attack action when using natural weapons?
I know that beasts with Multiattack use the Multiattack action, but what about the attacks of beasts that do not have Multiattack?
I presume that it the Attack action, as that is the standard way to make an Attack and the Attack action is available to all creatures
this matters for Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows
I recognize that you cannot use the Martial Arts bonus attack if the attack is made with natural weapons, as they are not Monk weapons
Do Natural Weapon Attacks count as Melee Weapon Attacks for the purposes of Stunning Strike?
I am pretty confident they do, because of the wording on melee and ranged attacks in the Monster Manual
We also know that Unarmed Attacks count as Melee Weapon Attacks for the purposes of Stunning Strike
A Wild Shape Druid use the beast's proficiency bonus when using attack's action in it's statblock so while not specifically mentioned, it should also apply to unarmed strike.
When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player’s Handbook. This would include taking the Attack action to make unarmed strike or other improvised attack.
Melee attack with natural weapon qualify for Stunning Strike.
When a Druid wild shaped as a Giant Toad takes the Attack action, does it perform Bite? And since Bite isn't a weapon attack, does it therefore constitute an Unarmed Strike?
When a Druid wild shaped as a Giant Toad takes the Attack action, does it perform Bite? And since Bite isn't a weapon attack, does it therefore constitute an Unarmed Strike?
IMO, yes, but the debate about natural weapons (it doesn't seem to be a term anymore) and Unarmed Strikes came up in some recent threads:
There are still some misnomers about wild shape out there. TarodNet has compiled the threads discussing some, but it might be useful to have links for:
So a note about wild shape from those rules: The only thing that mentions using your proficiency bonus is skill and saving throw proficiency that you already had: "You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature." So nothing else uses your PB, even proficiencies you gain from the creature. This goes to one of my fundamental ideas about wild shape: you really aren't meant to recalculate bonuses you might use from the printed stat block.
You should doublecheck the new Multiattack rules: it is now much more like extra attack where it can be used as part of the attack action. It looks like your ideas are based off of the 2014 understanding of that feature.
Edit: I just realized that the OP I was referring to was probably written before the MM release, which does change the analysis about multiattack.
Isn't the very concept of Proficiency synonymous with using your PB for it?
This bonus is applied to a d20 Test when the creature has proficiency in a skill, in a saving throw, or with an item that the creature uses to make the d20 Test. The bonus is also used for spell attacks and for calculating the DC of saving throws for spells.
It doesn't need to be stated in the Wild Shape rules. It's already mentioned as a general rule.
Your proficiency bonus is a game statistic replaced by the beasts, except where noted. The only place that indicates you use your proficiency bonus with anything while wild shaped (and not the one in the stat block) is this single sentence discussing saving throws and skills that you already possessed.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting, but what I'm saying (in reference to the OP) is that the proficiency bonus that you use to calculate anything while wild shaped would be the one that the wild shape rules tell you to use: you use the beast's with an exception for the skill and saving throw proficiencies that you retain use your proficiency bonus.
Oh I see what you're getting at now. Yeah I guess that makes sense. Wild Shape rules don't explicitly says that you keep your PB, only the cases in which you can use it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello All,
I am looking at a possible Moon Druid 2/Shadow Monk X build, but three things are not 100% clear to me. Any clarification, with justification, anyone could offer would be welcome.
Looking forward to hearing from you all.
A Wild Shape Druid use the beast's proficiency bonus when using attack's action in it's statblock so while not specifically mentioned, it should also apply to unarmed strike.
When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player’s Handbook. This would include taking the Attack action to make unarmed strike or other improvised attack.
Melee attack with natural weapon qualify for Stunning Strike.
When a Druid wild shaped as a Giant Toad takes the Attack action, does it perform Bite?
And since Bite isn't a weapon attack, does it therefore constitute an Unarmed Strike?
IMO, yes, but the debate about natural weapons (it doesn't seem to be a term anymore) and Unarmed Strikes came up in some recent threads:
There are still some misnomers about wild shape out there. TarodNet has compiled the threads discussing some, but it might be useful to have links for:
So a note about wild shape from those rules: The only thing that mentions using your proficiency bonus is skill and saving throw proficiency that you already had: "You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature." So nothing else uses your PB, even proficiencies you gain from the creature. This goes to one of my fundamental ideas about wild shape: you really aren't meant to recalculate bonuses you might use from the printed stat block.
You should doublecheck the new Multiattack rules: it is now much more like extra attack where it can be used as part of the attack action. It looks like your ideas are based off of the 2014 understanding of that feature.
Edit: I just realized that the OP I was referring to was probably written before the MM release, which does change the analysis about multiattack.
Isn't the very concept of Proficiency synonymous with using your PB for it?
It doesn't need to be stated in the Wild Shape rules. It's already mentioned as a general rule.
Your proficiency bonus is a game statistic replaced by the beasts, except where noted. The only place that indicates you use your proficiency bonus with anything while wild shaped (and not the one in the stat block) is this single sentence discussing saving throws and skills that you already possessed.
Yeah, so what? Proficiency rules apply to all stat blocks.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting, but what I'm saying (in reference to the OP) is that the proficiency bonus that you use to calculate anything while wild shaped would be the one that the wild shape rules tell you to use: you use the beast's with an exception for the skill and saving throw proficiencies that you retain use your proficiency bonus.
Oh I see what you're getting at now. Yeah I guess that makes sense. Wild Shape rules don't explicitly says that you keep your PB, only the cases in which you can use it.