Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Hi.
Am I the only one that thinks that the command spell is completely broken now that they lifted the limitations?
In 2014, it said: "The spell has no effect if the target is undead, if it doesn't understand your language, or if your command is directly harmful to it."
In 2024, you can command a creature that doesn't understand you. Even if it's an undead. And even if it's immune to the Charmed effect.
Casting a lvl 1 spell that forces the enemy to basically skip their turn is kind of bizarre, given the value of action economy.
A wizard/sorcerer will try to hold monster (5th level) against a powerful enemy, so that 1) it skips it's turn; 2) is easily crit'ed; 3) or forces it's legendary resistance.
Since we all know that skipping the turn is the most effective part of it, why allow bards and clerics to do that with a 1th level spell?
Please explain to me why limitations were lifted, turning Command one of the most powerful spells of the game.
Lots of spells mess with enemy turns or their ability to do things they want on their turn. Why is this spell in particular broken, but not Sleep, or Tasha's Hideous Laughter, or Entangle, or Ensnaring Strike, or Ray of Sickness, or Color Spray?
They removed the ability to use any single word and limited it to choose from the following options: Approach, Drop, Flee, Grovel, Halt. It also doesn't affect the enemy's mind so they can use their reaction - the spell only takes effect on the enemy's turn, nor does it affect the enemy's defenses.
Hold Monster is concentration which means it can last for up to 10 turns, all of which grant an automatic critical hit for all melee attackers.
I would say Command would be one of the best 1st level spells, with it also having quite possibly the best upcasting. It’s really good against powerful monsters, but stuff like a dozen goblins would make it pretty ineffective compared to Sleep or Burning Hands.
My dude, Command has a 60ft range. You say halt and the creature basically loses it's turn.
asha's Hideous Laughter has a 30 feet range, Color Spray has a 15 feet range, and Sleep doesn't work on undead.
Entangle, Ensnaring Stike and Ray of Sickness allows the enemy to act.
Absolutely. Upcasting it is insane.
Now, change "goblins" in your sentence to any monster with more damage output and HP.
6 griffons? 10 ghouls? Yes, command is still worth it.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter is nastier than Command's Grovel and lasts for up to 1 minute, depending on saves. Command can't disrupt Concentration.
Color Spray is a level 1 Cone. Without upcasting, Command is a single target spell.
Sleep has restricted targets (not just Undead are immune), but lasts up to a minute and is, again, nastier than Command's Grovel. Command can't disrupt Concentration.
Entangle and Ensnaring Strike allow the enemy to take actions, but if they only have melee actions it's the same thing.
Ray of Sickness deals damage and causes all attack rolls to be made with disadvantage. This can absolutely result in a wasted turn.
There's also the fact that these options are available to different classes. Paladins can't cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter but can cast Command. Paladins would rather be casting Smite, but still.
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Command being overpowered is not a new thing you just have to choose your word wisely
Also hold monster lasts for a minute not a single turn
And it's not one of the most powerful spells IMO
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I think you’re overlooking a big nerf from ‘14. Under the new version, you only have a few commands you can give, in 14, it could be any word you could think of. Granted, most of them would have about the same game effect, but it’s lost a lot of flexibility.
Also, as you point out, action economy is important. Yes, you may force the enemy to give up their action, but you’re also using your action to do it, and if the enemy makes their save, you get no benefit.
Why would Sleep not work on Undead? Vampires are Undead, and they're not immune. They can sleep (they even have a resting place) and they're not immune to Exhaustion, so Sleep will absolutely work on them.
If you're referring to this comment:
I'd say you're right for 5.5e Sleep:
It was different for 5e Sleep:
Yeah, considering the title of the thread, I assumed this conversation was about 5.5e :)
Totally! I just mentioned 5e because maybe that's what was going through SmiteMakesRight_3_5's mind?
I once heard a pirate battle that was run. The command word was “swim!” It took that enemy out of the fight for ever. Command is overpowered, but underused.
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The efficacy of Command has reduced from 5e to 5.5e, not increased. Yes, the removal of the restriction on Undead and creatures that can't understand you is a boon, but the that's undercut by the fact that what you can actually command the creature to do has been severely limited. In 5e, Approach, Drop, Flee, Grovel, and Halt were examples of what you could command. Now they're the only things you can command.
The expansion of the spell to being able to hit more creatures does not balance the much greater limitation of what you can do.
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I do think it should be revised a bit to at least make sure the actor is not forced into a suicidal action with the approach command. As for losing an action that is imo more a flaw with the save system in general. You give an action to take an action sounds fine on paper, but when lets say fighting an ogre at low levels it losing its action is a much bigger impact on the game than you using an action. But since 3e being a tough monster does not improve its saves overall at least equally i think 3e had a 1/2 save system and there is usually a very obvious strength/weakness in saves with the monsters. A DM can fix it but I wish they had better guidelines in the rules to help DMs on ways to modify monsters or encounters to deal with this.
i think the directly harmful to it removal makes it more powerful in 5.5 by a decent margin.
Brilliant.
Read the dang spell before you comment in 5.5 you can't harm enemies because you only have Halt,Grovel,flee,drop and approach it got nerfed at least in 5e you could say betray or sabotage.
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Any of those things could be harmful in certain situations, and in the old version you then wouldn't be able to use them, but now you can.
Don't get me wrong, the new version is definitely less powerful than the old one, but they're not wrong about the removal of the "harmful" language opening up a few new possibilities.
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Yeah I probably should have worded it that you can't directly harm enemies which is the same as 2014 but with less versatility
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Not quite. I just didn't check this statement:
What happens if I Command you to Approach and there is a Spike Growth directly between us?
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My houserulings.