Spell Glyph. You can store a prepared spell of level 3 or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way. When the glyph is triggered, the stored spell takes effect. If the spell has a target, it targets the creature that triggered the glyph. If the spell affects an area, the area is centered on that creature. If the spell summons Hostile creatures or creates harmful objects or traps, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and attack it. If the spell requires Concentration, it lasts until the end of its full duration.
When the description says "casting as part of creating the glyph", does that imply consuming an extra spell slot for that spell or not? And when the description says "the stored spell takes effect", does that imply that it takes effect immediately or can the target still make any saving throws associated with the spell that was stored?
For example, if I store Hold Person in a glyph, does it cost me one level 3 and one level 2 spell slots, or just one level 3 spell slot? And when the glyph is triggered, does the enemy make a DEX saving throw and a WIS saving throw? Or just the DEX saving throw?
As for the saves, the dex save only applies to the explosive rune. If you store a spell, the target only needs to make the save appropriate to the stored spell. So either you make an explosive rune, which would require a dex save, or you do a spell storing rune, where the save (if there is one) would be by the stored spell. But not two saves.
Another question. This what, as a Cleric, I unlock at level 10:
Divine Intervention You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.
So, if I'm reading this correctly: - I don't need powdered diamond anymore - I don't need to wait one 1 hour and can cast the glyph immediately - I don't need to use any spell slots - The Insect Plague conjured in such a way requires no concentration and will last for the full 10 minutes
Is this as busted as I think it is? I mean, it's only once per Long Rest, and I only get it at level 10... but still!
The first three are correct. (Though you’d still need to use a slot to put a spell in the glyph, just not for the glyph itself.) The power doesn’t say anything about cutting out concentration, so I’d rule you still have to concentrate.
A great use for it is a mid-combat Prayer of Healing. Give everyone 2d8 + a short rest.
If it’s busted or not, only time will tell as we use it more. But the updated monsters hit like trucks from what I’ve seen so far, so it might end up all evening out.
I'd say the Glyph is providing the concentration for you due to the Specific line "If the spell requires Concentration, it lasts until the end of its full duration." that overrides the General rule.
Another question. This what, as a Cleric, I unlock at level 10:
Divine Intervention You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.
So, if I'm reading this correctly: - I don't need powdered diamond anymore - I don't need to wait one 1 hour and can cast the glyph immediately - I don't need to use any spell slots - The Insect Plague conjured in such a way requires no concentration and will last for the full 10 minutes
Is this as busted as I think it is? I mean, it's only once per Long Rest, and I only get it at level 10... but still!
Note that while the new Divine Intervention would allow you to cast the glyph itself for free, you'd still need to expend a spell slot if you're storing another spell in it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Oh, are you casting the glyph at 5th level to put insect plague in the glyph? Well, you would need insect plague prepared, that’s for certain.
But there is debate about whether you can use divine intervention to upcast a spell (similar to wish) where it says you can cast any spell up to level 5 (or 8 in the case of wish). But it unclear if that means you can cast a higher-level version of a spell. So you can certainly use it to cast a level 3 version of glyph, but wether or not you can cast a level 4 or 5 version of glyph will need a DM ruling.
Oh, are you casting the glyph at 5th level to put insect plague in the glyph? Well, you would need insect plague prepared, that’s for certain.
But there is debate about whether you can use divine intervention to upcast a spell (similar to wish) where it says you can cast any spell up to level 5 (or 8 in the case of wish). But it unclear if that means you can cast a higher-level version of a spell. So you can certainly use it to cast a level 3 version of glyph, but wether or not you can cast a level 4 or 5 version of glyph will need a DM ruling.
A spell is cast at its lowest level if no spell slot is expended.
Oh, are you casting the glyph at 5th level to put insect plague in the glyph? Well, you would need insect plague prepared, that’s for certain.
But there is debate about whether you can use divine intervention to upcast a spell (similar to wish) where it says you can cast any spell up to level 5 (or 8 in the case of wish). But it unclear if that means you can cast a higher-level version of a spell. So you can certainly use it to cast a level 3 version of glyph, but wether or not you can cast a level 4 or 5 version of glyph will need a DM ruling.
A spell is cast at its lowest level if no spell slot is expended.
I agree, but others do not. That’s why I suggested a DM ruling.
A spell is cast at its lowest level if no spell slot is expended.
IIRC, this rule applies to prevent the players from getting higher spell slots than designed for free. Like the spells you get through Magic Initiate. They're supposed to be level 1 spell, so you're supposed to get the equivalent of a level 1 free spell slot for that specific spell.
But the case of Divine Intervention is entirely different. I don't want to use it with Contagion (a level 5 spell) and upcast it to level 7. I want to take a level 3 spell and upcast it to the level that I'm already supposed to get for free. So it's not the same situation.
Note that while the new Divine Intervention would allow you to cast the glyph itself for free, you'd still need to expend a spell slot if you're storing another spell in it
Considering that storing a spell in the glyph is part of casting the glyph spell, I would argue that spending a spell slot for storing the spell would contradict the description of Divine Intervention. "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components." If I spend a spell slot for storing a spell inside my glyph, then I have effectively spent a spell slot to cast my glyph...
Note that while the new Divine Intervention would allow you to cast the glyph itself for free, you'd still need to expend a spell slot if you're storing another spell in it
Considering that storing a spell in the glyph is part of casting the glyph spell, I would argue that spending a spell slot for storing the spell would contradict the description of Divine Intervention. "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components." If I spend a spell slot for storing a spell inside my glyph, then I have effectively spent a spell slot to cast my glyph...
You cast that spell (Glyph of Warding) without expending a slot. If you set it for an Explosive Rune instead of storing a spell, then yeah, you're in the clear
The language of GoW doesn't say the second spell is part of the casting though, only part of the glyph's creation, and is explicitly a separate casting from GoW
You can store a prepared spell of level 3 or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The language of GoW doesn't say the second spell is part of the casting though, only part of the glyph's creation, and is explicitly a separate casting from GoW
You can store a prepared spell of level 3 or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way.
Concentration is required when casting any spell, including a ritual version, for longer than 1 action. Once the casting is complete, the spell requires concentration only if its duration entry says it does.
If you are casting a spell for longer than one action, you are concentrating on casting it for the whole duration. In other words, for that whole duration, you are considered "casting a spell". Since the creation of the glyph is meant to happen during the hour of casting time, you are in fact considered casting the spell during this whole time, and therefore, the glyph creation is, for all intents of purposes, part of the spell casting.
Okay, to cover the issue of what upcasting is in 2024, the spells that can be upcast specifically say "Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot"; ergo, if you have not used a spell slot to cast the spell, you have failed to meet that condition unless another effect explicitly says to treat the spell differently, which does not appear anywhere in Divine Intervention. Frankly, this is the only saving grace of the interaction between Glyph of Warding and Divine Intervention (which really needs a cap on how much gp it's going to let you ignore so the cost to Raise Dead doesn't just become a joke)- you can either save your gold and only store up to 3rd level, or you need to take the gold and time to cast rather than getting a freebie if you want a stronger effect.
Got it. To be fair it would have been completely OP... Imagine removing concentration from Dawn, or Summon Celestial, so you could get both at the same time. I can still get a concentration free Spirit Guardian though! But I don't think it's as busted as just using Divine Intervention with Hallow.
I also think that Divine Intervention, in this interaction, allows you to cast Glyph of Warding without using a spell slot, but the spell you want to store is prepared and cast by you, using your own spell slots (or through traits/features/feats that grant characters prepared spells they can cast without using spell slots)
Spell Glyph. You can store a prepared spell of level 3 or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. [...]
I admit it can be read that way but I don't think it must be read that way. Since creating the glyph is part of the casting process, it can be read that you don't spend that spell slot either, since you're not supposed to spend a spell slot as part of said casting process.
What I'm trying to say is that just like you seem to read it like "you do not spend the spell slot of that specific spell", there's nothing preventing us from reading it like "you don't spend a single spell slot as you are casting that spell". Considering that (AFAIK) Glyph of Warding is the only spell that may require you to spend 2 spells slots at once, it could be an oversight.
The language of GoW doesn't say the second spell is part of the casting though, only part of the glyph's creation, and is explicitly a separate casting from GoW
You can store a prepared spell of level 3 or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way.
Concentration is required when casting any spell, including a ritual version, for longer than 1 action. Once the casting is complete, the spell requires concentration only if its duration entry says it does.
If you are casting a spell for longer than one action, you are concentrating on casting it for the whole duration. In other words, for that whole duration, you are considered "casting a spell". Since the creation of the glyph is meant to happen during the hour of casting time, you are in fact considered casting the spell during this whole time, and therefore, the glyph creation is, for all intents of purposes, part of the spell casting.
None of that changes the fact that the stored spell is referred to as a separate casting in the description for GoW
Also, concentration is used for things other than casting a spell, so it doesn't follow that if you are concentrating for an hour, you must be concentrating on casting a single spell for that entire time
I can see the argument you're trying to make, but I don't think it holds up
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's not just that. "Concentration is required when casting any spell, including a ritual version, for longer than 1 action. Once the casting is complete"
Both of these suggest that the casting is an ongoing process while the player is concentrating on it. You start casting at the beginning of the casting time, and the casting is completed when you reach the end of it. And you are considered "casting" during this whole time.
So when you say "None of that changes the fact that the stored spell is referred to as a separate casting", I do not agree with the "separate" part. It is included in the casting process, so it's not separate. In fact, I would say that "as part of" means the exact opposite of "separate".
Specifically about Spell Glyph.
When the description says "casting as part of creating the glyph", does that imply consuming an extra spell slot for that spell or not?
And when the description says "the stored spell takes effect", does that imply that it takes effect immediately or can the target still make any saving throws associated with the spell that was stored?
For example, if I store Hold Person in a glyph, does it cost me one level 3 and one level 2 spell slots, or just one level 3 spell slot? And when the glyph is triggered, does the enemy make a DEX saving throw and a WIS saving throw? Or just the DEX saving throw?
Thanks in advance :)
Yes, you need to use both spell slots.
As for the saves, the dex save only applies to the explosive rune. If you store a spell, the target only needs to make the save appropriate to the stored spell. So either you make an explosive rune, which would require a dex save, or you do a spell storing rune, where the save (if there is one) would be by the stored spell. But not two saves.
Thank you!
Another question.
This what, as a Cleric, I unlock at level 10:
So, if I'm reading this correctly:
- I don't need powdered diamond anymore
- I don't need to wait one 1 hour and can cast the glyph immediately
- I don't need to use any spell slots
- The Insect Plague conjured in such a way requires no concentration and will last for the full 10 minutes
Is this as busted as I think it is?
I mean, it's only once per Long Rest, and I only get it at level 10... but still!
The first three are correct. (Though you’d still need to use a slot to put a spell in the glyph, just not for the glyph itself.)
The power doesn’t say anything about cutting out concentration, so I’d rule you still have to concentrate.
A great use for it is a mid-combat Prayer of Healing. Give everyone 2d8 + a short rest.
If it’s busted or not, only time will tell as we use it more. But the updated monsters hit like trucks from what I’ve seen so far, so it might end up all evening out.
I'd say the Glyph is providing the concentration for you due to the Specific line "If the spell requires Concentration, it lasts until the end of its full duration." that overrides the General rule.
Note that while the new Divine Intervention would allow you to cast the glyph itself for free, you'd still need to expend a spell slot if you're storing another spell in it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Oh, are you casting the glyph at 5th level to put insect plague in the glyph?
Well, you would need insect plague prepared, that’s for certain.
But there is debate about whether you can use divine intervention to upcast a spell (similar to wish) where it says you can cast any spell up to level 5 (or 8 in the case of wish). But it unclear if that means you can cast a higher-level version of a spell. So you can certainly use it to cast a level 3 version of glyph, but wether or not you can cast a level 4 or 5 version of glyph will need a DM ruling.
A spell is cast at its lowest level if no spell slot is expended.
I agree, but others do not. That’s why I suggested a DM ruling.
IIRC, this rule applies to prevent the players from getting higher spell slots than designed for free. Like the spells you get through Magic Initiate. They're supposed to be level 1 spell, so you're supposed to get the equivalent of a level 1 free spell slot for that specific spell.
But the case of Divine Intervention is entirely different. I don't want to use it with Contagion (a level 5 spell) and upcast it to level 7. I want to take a level 3 spell and upcast it to the level that I'm already supposed to get for free. So it's not the same situation.
I would agree with Xalthu here.
Considering that storing a spell in the glyph is part of casting the glyph spell, I would argue that spending a spell slot for storing the spell would contradict the description of Divine Intervention.
"As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components."
If I spend a spell slot for storing a spell inside my glyph, then I have effectively spent a spell slot to cast my glyph...
You cast that spell (Glyph of Warding) without expending a slot. If you set it for an Explosive Rune instead of storing a spell, then yeah, you're in the clear
The language of GoW doesn't say the second spell is part of the casting though, only part of the glyph's creation, and is explicitly a separate casting from GoW
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I understand why you are interpreting it this way, however it is not explicit at all. In fact, an actually explicit ruling contradicts your interpretation:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA162
If you are casting a spell for longer than one action, you are concentrating on casting it for the whole duration. In other words, for that whole duration, you are considered "casting a spell".
Since the creation of the glyph is meant to happen during the hour of casting time, you are in fact considered casting the spell during this whole time, and therefore, the glyph creation is, for all intents of purposes, part of the spell casting.
Okay, to cover the issue of what upcasting is in 2024, the spells that can be upcast specifically say "Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot"; ergo, if you have not used a spell slot to cast the spell, you have failed to meet that condition unless another effect explicitly says to treat the spell differently, which does not appear anywhere in Divine Intervention. Frankly, this is the only saving grace of the interaction between Glyph of Warding and Divine Intervention (which really needs a cap on how much gp it's going to let you ignore so the cost to Raise Dead doesn't just become a joke)- you can either save your gold and only store up to 3rd level, or you need to take the gold and time to cast rather than getting a freebie if you want a stronger effect.
Got it. To be fair it would have been completely OP...
Imagine removing concentration from Dawn, or Summon Celestial, so you could get both at the same time.
I can still get a concentration free Spirit Guardian though! But I don't think it's as busted as just using Divine Intervention with Hallow.
I also think that Divine Intervention, in this interaction, allows you to cast Glyph of Warding without using a spell slot, but the spell you want to store is prepared and cast by you, using your own spell slots (or through traits/features/feats that grant characters prepared spells they can cast without using spell slots)
I admit it can be read that way but I don't think it must be read that way. Since creating the glyph is part of the casting process, it can be read that you don't spend that spell slot either, since you're not supposed to spend a spell slot as part of said casting process.
What I'm trying to say is that just like you seem to read it like "you do not spend the spell slot of that specific spell", there's nothing preventing us from reading it like "you don't spend a single spell slot as you are casting that spell".
Considering that (AFAIK) Glyph of Warding is the only spell that may require you to spend 2 spells slots at once, it could be an oversight.
None of that changes the fact that the stored spell is referred to as a separate casting in the description for GoW
Also, concentration is used for things other than casting a spell, so it doesn't follow that if you are concentrating for an hour, you must be concentrating on casting a single spell for that entire time
I can see the argument you're trying to make, but I don't think it holds up
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's not just that.
"Concentration is required when casting any spell, including a ritual version, for longer than 1 action. Once the casting is complete"
Both of these suggest that the casting is an ongoing process while the player is concentrating on it.
You start casting at the beginning of the casting time, and the casting is completed when you reach the end of it.
And you are considered "casting" during this whole time.
So when you say "None of that changes the fact that the stored spell is referred to as a separate casting", I do not agree with the "separate" part. It is included in the casting process, so it's not separate. In fact, I would say that "as part of" means the exact opposite of "separate".