I’ve been having trouble finding clarification regarding the extra damage from Necrotic shroud (lvl 3 racial ability for Fallen Aasimar) in specifically with spiritual weapon. I’ve tried searching the books, compendium and sage advice but sadly no dice (yay puns!).
Here is the damage definition:
”Your transformation lasts for 1 minute or until you end it as a bonus action. During it, once on each of your turns, you can deal extra necrotic damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a spell. The extra necrotic damage equals your level.”
I’ve got a War Cleric Fallen Aasimar that I play in Adventurer’s league, and the last two times I used necrotic shroud theres been a constant argument that the extra damage from Necrotic shroud should not be applied to it as a spiritual weapon considered a ‘separate entity’.
Spiritual weapon definition:
”You create a floating, spectral weapon within range that lasts for the duration or until you cast thisspell again. When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.”
My argument is that Necrotic shroud clearly states that once per turn the extra damage is applied to an attack or spell that has damaged the target.
Spiritual weapon clearly states that it’s an attack (spell attack). The dms (and some players) believe the definitions are too vague (which I don’t think so). I feel it’s pretty clear cut that a: necrotic shroud says clearly damage applied to a spell or attack, and while spiritual weapon is ‘created’ by the cleric, its still a spell and attack (and its not a summoned creature or pet).
I’m not a minmaxer, only trying to make use of all my utilities that I have (especially since as a cleric in tier 2 im concentrating on healing and being a tank, so its a benefit to do some extra damage, and its only once per long rest). But I always want to play as fair and as close to the rules I can, so if anyone can confirm any official rulings that’d be greatly appreciated, that way I can adjust my playstyle as necessary if I am wrong!
You are absolutely in the right. It's pretty clear from the text of spiritual weapon that "you can make a melee spell attack" and "you can move the weapon up to 20 feet and repeat the attack". It's not the weapon making the attack, it's you. I don't really see what room there is for debate here.
[...]During it, once on each of your turns, youcan deal extra necrotic damage to one target when youdeal damage to it with an attack or a spell. The extra necrotic damage equals your level.[...]
Spiritual Weapon
[...]You create a floating, spectral weapon within range that lasts for the duration or until you cast this spell again. When you cast the spell, youcan make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon.
As a bonus action on your turn, youcan move the weapon up to 20 feet and repeat the attack against a creature within 5 feet of it.[...]
So yeah, everything refers to "you" in both the spell and the racial trait. I guess the confusion comes from "you create a floating, spectral weapon" indicating that it may be akin to a summoned or a conjured entity. Since you can only have one spectral weapon and you must control it, it is intimately connected to you and therefore also your shroud. I would rule it as you interpret it; you make the attack so the damage is added.
I agree that a spiritual weapon being overcharged with the innate spiritual energy of an Aasimar seems fair enough and can be supported by the spell and and ability wording. I would add that its not worth being upset over it if the DM doesnt like it in his game as spiritual weapon is a bonus action meaning your bonus channelled energy can still be used elsewhere. Ask yourself if you would be happy fighting cr2 priests (5th level caster) who are using this, its a racial change 'which doesn't change the CR' but now deal extra damage at range. It might be that your storyteller is just looking out for you, probably not, but maybe.
I agree that a spiritual weapon being overcharged with the innate spiritual energy of an Aasimar seems fair enough and can be supported by the spell and and ability wording. I would add that its not worth being upset over it if the DM doesnt like it in his game as spiritual weapon is a bonus action meaning your bonus channelled energy can still be used elsewhere. Ask yourself if you would be happy fighting cr2 priests (5th level caster) who are using this, its a racial change 'which doesn't change the CR' but now deal extra damage at range. It might be that your storyteller is just looking out for you, probably not, but maybe.
The OP said it's AL, so it isn't the DM's game to disallow something that the rules pretty explicitly allow. In AL the DM should be following RAW and the players should be able to rely on that.
Hi all,
I’ve been having trouble finding clarification regarding the extra damage from Necrotic shroud (lvl 3 racial ability for Fallen Aasimar) in specifically with spiritual weapon. I’ve tried searching the books, compendium and sage advice but sadly no dice (yay puns!).
Here is the damage definition:
”Your transformation lasts for 1 minute or until you end it as a bonus action. During it, once on each of your turns, you can deal extra necrotic damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a spell. The extra necrotic damage equals your level.”
I’ve got a War Cleric Fallen Aasimar that I play in Adventurer’s league, and the last two times I used necrotic shroud theres been a constant argument that the extra damage from Necrotic shroud should not be applied to it as a spiritual weapon considered a ‘separate entity’.
Spiritual weapon definition:
”You create a floating, spectral weapon within range that lasts for the duration or until you cast this spell again. When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.”
My argument is that Necrotic shroud clearly states that once per turn the extra damage is applied to an attack or spell that has damaged the target.
Spiritual weapon clearly states that it’s an attack (spell attack). The dms (and some players) believe the definitions are too vague (which I don’t think so). I feel it’s pretty clear cut that a: necrotic shroud says clearly damage applied to a spell or attack, and while spiritual weapon is ‘created’ by the cleric, its still a spell and attack (and its not a summoned creature or pet).
I’m not a minmaxer, only trying to make use of all my utilities that I have (especially since as a cleric in tier 2 im concentrating on healing and being a tank, so its a benefit to do some extra damage, and its only once per long rest). But I always want to play as fair and as close to the rules I can, so if anyone can confirm any official rulings that’d be greatly appreciated, that way I can adjust my playstyle as necessary if I am wrong!
You are absolutely in the right. It's pretty clear from the text of spiritual weapon that "you can make a melee spell attack" and "you can move the weapon up to 20 feet and repeat the attack". It's not the weapon making the attack, it's you. I don't really see what room there is for debate here.
Necrotic Shroud
Spiritual Weapon
So yeah, everything refers to "you" in both the spell and the racial trait. I guess the confusion comes from "you create a floating, spectral weapon" indicating that it may be akin to a summoned or a conjured entity. Since you can only have one spectral weapon and you must control it, it is intimately connected to you and therefore also your shroud. I would rule it as you interpret it; you make the attack so the damage is added.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Yeah, I don't see what the debate is here. You are dealing damage with a spell, so the necrotic shroud applies.
I agree that a spiritual weapon being overcharged with the innate spiritual energy of an Aasimar seems fair enough and can be supported by the spell and and ability wording. I would add that its not worth being upset over it if the DM doesnt like it in his game as spiritual weapon is a bonus action meaning your bonus channelled energy can still be used elsewhere. Ask yourself if you would be happy fighting cr2 priests (5th level caster) who are using this, its a racial change 'which doesn't change the CR' but now deal extra damage at range. It might be that your storyteller is just looking out for you, probably not, but maybe.
The OP said it's AL, so it isn't the DM's game to disallow something that the rules pretty explicitly allow. In AL the DM should be following RAW and the players should be able to rely on that.