Question for the Sages: Just how powerful is Bend Luck?
As long as you have Sorc Points your friends need not fear Critical Hits, Critical Failures, any hit that barely fails (for them) or any hit that barely lands (for their enemies) unless a single round involves a lot of honest-to-Tymora bad luck with the dice. This warping of local probabilities (for me as the DM) has got to be the most abusable class feature in 5E!
Would love some opinions and/or criticism (I have a genuine love of Troll Steak - well done of course).
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I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
Criticals are criticals, the PHB states "Rolling 1 or 20 Sometimes fate blesses or curses a combatant, causing the novice to hit and the Veteran to miss. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. This is called a critical hit. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 1, the attack misses regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC." So penalising the enemies critical with Bend Luck wouldn't have an effect, unfortunately, neither would buffing your allies crit fail. Unless you want to house rule it as a possibility, though in my opinion this removes some of the power of critical rolls.
While Bend Luck can be horrendously useful, the requirement of spending Sorc Points makes it more of a clutch than a spam ability.
It costs you your reaction to use, so it's only once per turn. And you can use it three times per day at 6th level, at the expense of any metamagic. And the die is only a d4 to change the roll.
Any time you can influence dice rolls is good, but it's not overpowered. Really it's more of a "feel good" ability, where you get to grin across the table and tell your friend that they did not actually fail that check. Bards are a better choice if you want to do this sort of thing regularly. Wild Mage needs every edge it can get compared to Draconic anyway, especially if your DM doesn't give you much chance to wild surge and replenish Tides of Chaos.
Synonyms See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com 1. karma, kismet; chance, luck, destiny, doom
It is my understanding that fate's blessing or curse is as inextricably tied to "luck" as any roll of a Natural 20 could be. While I have my presonal reservations that are in complete agreement with your views of what should happen on a Crit, the very definitions of the words "Bend", "Luck" and "Fate" have resulted in my rule allowing it to kill a Critical. I admit I take no small pleasure in asking "So how many Sorcerer Points does that leave you with?" when I know the answer is less than two....
@ratwhowouldbeking: Love the quote,
That limit of 1d4 is why my Sorc is hesitant to burn her Sorc points on other things, I believe. It is also a factor in why I adjudicated the feature to alter the fate's blessing as mentioned. While it doesn't let her alter her own attacks or saves, the feature lets her provide "Emergency" support to the group tank when his Nat 1 might otherwise have resulted in him cleaving off his own foot (for example). That said, I am still on the fence about whether there should be a "Tides of Chaos" like rebound in the local "Luck" when this feature is used until the Sorc is dried up - which prompts a mad dash to safety so that we can recharge the emergency responce sorceress.... Statistically, my PCs seem to roll more 1's than I roll 20's but she is not overly reluctant to kill my criticals. Thus my original post.
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I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
RAW, bend luck is most useful for getting things over the line and not undoing crits, and it feels fine for that application. But when you’ve homebrewed it to do what you’ve described, well, that’s your game and beyond my experience.
RAW, bend luck does not specify to include or exclude criticals, leaving it a DM adjudication. Like in ADnD, certain magical defences could make a critical hit irrelevant (ie: Stoneskin, Ironguard and a few Invulnerability spells). While I didn't expect to be justifying my use of definitions as the basis of that application of the feature, I would like to point out that the Halfling trait of Lucky: When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll. Is not limited even by the Sorc Point pool while doing half as much of the same thing. Again, I note that word Luck as it is used to make a RAW Critical Fail into something other.
What I would like to know, Jcaudm, is: In your opinion, would I be unfair in causing the pendulum of luck - when thus tampered with - to swing a bit more erradically against the one(s) for whom the Sorc had applied her magic? And I would add that I would not consider doing this the first time she uses the feature in an encounter but rather after the third use in a single battle (not all of her applications have been to circumvent a critical but the frequency of the feature's use has caused me to consider it to be ... without adequate consequence).
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I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
First: Good on you for being able to find that! It was Page 16 in my google search and that was after I spent ten minutes failingly searching twitter!
A shame that that doesn't directly address my feature but I guess that is just as well (a bard feature three levels lower than a 6th level Sorc Wild Mage feature is the same right?). As I previously stated, the definitions of the words used in the RAW for both the feature and the critical hit/miss are my reasons for allowing the feature to do what it has done on say 4 critical failures and 1 of my critical hits (at a guess) since she turned sixth level. I would like to say that the failures still failed and the hit still hit. The only change was the Critical component. And while that singular aspect of the feature's application has apparently consumed entirely any interest you have in answering my question I believe I can now move on to someone with something more helpful to contribute.
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I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
Halfling trait of Lucky: When you roll a 1 on The D20 for an Attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll.
Bend Luck: When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penaltyto the creature’s roll. You can do so after the creature rolls but before any effects of the roll occur.
The bold part is the key to the argurment:
With Lucky it specifically calls out a die roll of 1, where as, Bend luck adds to the roll that was made. It's a nuanced thing to consider:
You can't change a 1 on the die after it's come to rest
unless you use Lucky.
You can change the result after modifiers are applied by using Bend Luck.
In either case, the initial 1 is a 1 on the die roll, a critical failure.
The Plundered Tomb has made my point: Consider the 6th lvl Warlock Features Misty Escape, Entropic Ward, and Dark One's own luck (which is remarkably similar to Bend Luck). All of these have a single use between rests and cannot be used twice in an encounter. This leaves me thinking Bend Luck (even without my allowances regarding Criticals) is a bit heavy on the balance. I am not trying to say it is OP to the point of any interest in disallowing it - just that I wonder if other DMs have viewed it with the same lens I am using and if they might agree that a little "rippling of the luck" might be in order when the feature is heavily applied. I will also concede that 6th level seems to be the point at which the Wild Sorc power graph seems to be rising more quickly (without the Bend Luck even used) to make her more an equal to her draconic counterparts. Perhaps that is why the feature is so usable - as a reward for making it to the turning of the Tides (lol).
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I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
--Artemis Entreri
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Question for the Sages: Just how powerful is Bend Luck?
As long as you have Sorc Points your friends need not fear Critical Hits, Critical Failures, any hit that barely fails (for them) or any hit that barely lands (for their enemies) unless a single round involves a lot of honest-to-Tymora bad luck with the dice. This warping of local probabilities (for me as the DM) has got to be the most abusable class feature in 5E!
Would love some opinions and/or criticism (I have a genuine love of Troll Steak - well done of course).
I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
--Artemis Entreri
Criticals are criticals, the PHB states "Rolling 1 or 20 Sometimes fate blesses or curses a combatant, causing the novice to hit and the Veteran to miss. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. This is called a critical hit. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 1, the attack misses regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC." So penalising the enemies critical with Bend Luck wouldn't have an effect, unfortunately, neither would buffing your allies crit fail. Unless you want to house rule it as a possibility, though in my opinion this removes some of the power of critical rolls.
While Bend Luck can be horrendously useful, the requirement of spending Sorc Points makes it more of a clutch than a spam ability.
"Roll for kink."
My homebrews - Naturalcrit
It costs you your reaction to use, so it's only once per turn. And you can use it three times per day at 6th level, at the expense of any metamagic. And the die is only a d4 to change the roll.
Any time you can influence dice rolls is good, but it's not overpowered. Really it's more of a "feel good" ability, where you get to grin across the table and tell your friend that they did not actually fail that check. Bards are a better choice if you want to do this sort of thing regularly. Wild Mage needs every edge it can get compared to Draconic anyway, especially if your DM doesn't give you much chance to wild surge and replenish Tides of Chaos.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
@Lloyd: Fate:
Synonyms
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
1. karma, kismet; chance, luck, destiny, doom
It is my understanding that fate's blessing or curse is as inextricably tied to "luck" as any roll of a Natural 20 could be. While I have my presonal reservations that are in complete agreement with your views of what should happen on a Crit, the very definitions of the words "Bend", "Luck" and "Fate" have resulted in my rule allowing it to kill a Critical. I admit I take no small pleasure in asking "So how many Sorcerer Points does that leave you with?" when I know the answer is less than two....
@ratwhowouldbeking: Love the quote,
That limit of 1d4 is why my Sorc is hesitant to burn her Sorc points on other things, I believe. It is also a factor in why I adjudicated the feature to alter the fate's blessing as mentioned. While it doesn't let her alter her own attacks or saves, the feature lets her provide "Emergency" support to the group tank when his Nat 1 might otherwise have resulted in him cleaving off his own foot (for example). That said, I am still on the fence about whether there should be a "Tides of Chaos" like rebound in the local "Luck" when this feature is used until the Sorc is dried up - which prompts a mad dash to safety so that we can recharge the emergency responce sorceress.... Statistically, my PCs seem to roll more 1's than I roll 20's but she is not overly reluctant to kill my criticals. Thus my original post.
I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
--Artemis Entreri
RAW, bend luck is most useful for getting things over the line and not undoing crits, and it feels fine for that application. But when you’ve homebrewed it to do what you’ve described, well, that’s your game and beyond my experience.
RAW, bend luck does not specify to include or exclude criticals, leaving it a DM adjudication. Like in ADnD, certain magical defences could make a critical hit irrelevant (ie: Stoneskin, Ironguard and a few Invulnerability spells). While I didn't expect to be justifying my use of definitions as the basis of that application of the feature, I would like to point out that the Halfling trait of Lucky: When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll. Is not limited even by the Sorc Point pool while doing half as much of the same thing. Again, I note that word Luck as it is used to make a RAW Critical Fail into something other.
What I would like to know, Jcaudm, is: In your opinion, would I be unfair in causing the pendulum of luck - when thus tampered with - to swing a bit more erradically against the one(s) for whom the Sorc had applied her magic? And I would add that I would not consider doing this the first time she uses the feature in an encounter but rather after the third use in a single battle (not all of her applications have been to circumvent a critical but the frequency of the feature's use has caused me to consider it to be ... without adequate consequence).
I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
--Artemis Entreri
I adjudicate based on this and the similarity of the effect of cutting words to bend luck: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/695078050589859840
First: Good on you for being able to find that! It was Page 16 in my google search and that was after I spent ten minutes failingly searching twitter!
A shame that that doesn't directly address my feature but I guess that is just as well (a bard feature three levels lower than a 6th level Sorc Wild Mage feature is the same right?). As I previously stated, the definitions of the words used in the RAW for both the feature and the critical hit/miss are my reasons for allowing the feature to do what it has done on say 4 critical failures and 1 of my critical hits (at a guess) since she turned sixth level. I would like to say that the failures still failed and the hit still hit. The only change was the Critical component. And while that singular aspect of the feature's application has apparently consumed entirely any interest you have in answering my question I believe I can now move on to someone with something more helpful to contribute.
I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
--Artemis Entreri
The answer ought to be: "As powerful as any other 6th level (sub)class ability."
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I can hear both sides of the argument and I thought about it a bit.
The bold part is the key to the argurment:
With Lucky it specifically calls out a die roll of 1, where as, Bend luck adds to the roll that was made. It's a nuanced thing to consider:
In either case, the initial 1 is a 1 on the die roll, a critical failure.
The Plundered Tomb has made my point: Consider the 6th lvl Warlock Features Misty Escape, Entropic Ward, and Dark One's own luck (which is remarkably similar to Bend Luck). All of these have a single use between rests and cannot be used twice in an encounter. This leaves me thinking Bend Luck (even without my allowances regarding Criticals) is a bit heavy on the balance. I am not trying to say it is OP to the point of any interest in disallowing it - just that I wonder if other DMs have viewed it with the same lens I am using and if they might agree that a little "rippling of the luck" might be in order when the feature is heavily applied. I will also concede that 6th level seems to be the point at which the Wild Sorc power graph seems to be rising more quickly (without the Bend Luck even used) to make her more an equal to her draconic counterparts. Perhaps that is why the feature is so usable - as a reward for making it to the turning of the Tides (lol).
I do not like the word... prisoner. It implies a helpless state, and I assure you, I am never helpless.
--Artemis Entreri