Ancient Red Dragon

This dragons aura knows no bounds

Quote from Sigilavox >>

Imposing art, but a surprisingly tame spell list. Well, nothing a little addition or two can't fix!

Heat Metal (level 3 version) seems sufficiently cruel for a red dragon's tastes. It might be an At Will spell, perhaps as an alternative option to Scorching Ray (level 3 version) during Multiattack.

Seeing as how they lair up in mountains and apocalyptic ruins, Earthquake at 1/Day might be cinematic, especially if the dragon takes to the air and hurls Fire Breath down at the now-disoriented party. Slow-roasted adventurers at the bottom of a pit, Kalua-style, anyone?

And, for the truly devious DM...

Imagine an Ancient Red Dragon feared for having truly invincible scales, who can cast Invulnerability at 1/Day... which they always do just before flying into melee! Watch the mortals' fear as their pitiful spells and weapons bounce right off. The shock! The awe! The drama! Be the red dragon every other dragon dreams they could be! Die, insects!

 I think this upgraded version would be a fair challenge, esp for a 3 man party, after a long dungeon crawl. If added maybe some high end enemy wizards to the mix, this would be a good scrap, for exhausted level 20 adventurers. Maybe not a campaign-ender type boss, but a highly satisfactory one!(Unless your party can take a beating, then add a lich or two!)

Or some more dragons, for a dragon lair theme

I really want to know why they removed the Frightful Presence of the previous version... I think they believe that command at level 2 is a good substitute, but it's not the same at all.

Almost two years after this change, I see that nobody talks about it; I imagine that almost nobody used it.

Quote from theron >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from Sigilavox >>

Imposing art, but a surprisingly tame spell list. Well, nothing a little addition or two can't fix!

Heat Metal (level 3 version) seems sufficiently cruel for a red dragon's tastes. It might be an At Will spell, perhaps as an alternative option to Scorching Ray (level 3 version) during Multiattack.

Seeing as how they lair up in mountains and apocalyptic ruins, Earthquake at 1/Day might be cinematic, especially if the dragon takes to the air and hurls Fire Breath down at the now-disoriented party. Slow-roasted adventurers at the bottom of a pit, Kalua-style, anyone?

And, for the truly devious DM...

Imagine an Ancient Red Dragon feared for having truly invincible scales, who can cast Invulnerability at 1/Day... which they always do just before flying into melee! Watch the mortals' fear as their pitiful spells and weapons bounce right off. The shock! The awe! The drama! Be the red dragon every other dragon dreams they could be! Die, insects!

Those suggests would definitely make a more powerful red dragon, but I wouldn't recommend making one of the strongest monsters in the MM substantially harder to kill (the red greatwyrm from Fizban''s already provides a nigh-unstoppable version of the red dragon). I think your players will find this stat block provides quite a bit of "shock" and "awe." Consider that it has an AC of 22, high saving throws, over 500 hit points, and the ability to deal on average 114 damage each turn (not including spells or Fire Breath). Even a group of level 20 characters will not have an easy time fighting this monster. If you're looking for ways to make a dragon more distinctive or overtly impressive, I suggest looking at the specific features discussed in Fizban's addressing that.

 

 Not to be that guy, but according to the DMG you are wrong. This guy and a lich combined is a hard encounter for a level 20 party of 4. So saying your party will not find it easy is questionable since according to DMG this is literally just an average hard encounter, not even close to an awesome boss fight.

 An ancient red dragon uses up slightly less than the hard encounter budget for 3 level 20s.

Edit: A single level 20 PC's hard difficulty encounter budget is 22,000 xp.

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from theron >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from Sigilavox >>

Imposing art, but a surprisingly tame spell list. Well, nothing a little addition or two can't fix!

Heat Metal (level 3 version) seems sufficiently cruel for a red dragon's tastes. It might be an At Will spell, perhaps as an alternative option to Scorching Ray (level 3 version) during Multiattack.

Seeing as how they lair up in mountains and apocalyptic ruins, Earthquake at 1/Day might be cinematic, especially if the dragon takes to the air and hurls Fire Breath down at the now-disoriented party. Slow-roasted adventurers at the bottom of a pit, Kalua-style, anyone?

And, for the truly devious DM...

Imagine an Ancient Red Dragon feared for having truly invincible scales, who can cast Invulnerability at 1/Day... which they always do just before flying into melee! Watch the mortals' fear as their pitiful spells and weapons bounce right off. The shock! The awe! The drama! Be the red dragon every other dragon dreams they could be! Die, insects!

Those suggests would definitely make a more powerful red dragon, but I wouldn't recommend making one of the strongest monsters in the MM substantially harder to kill (the red greatwyrm from Fizban''s already provides a nigh-unstoppable version of the red dragon). I think your players will find this stat block provides quite a bit of "shock" and "awe." Consider that it has an AC of 22, high saving throws, over 500 hit points, and the ability to deal on average 114 damage each turn (not including spells or Fire Breath). Even a group of level 20 characters will not have an easy time fighting this monster. If you're looking for ways to make a dragon more distinctive or overtly impressive, I suggest looking at the specific features discussed in Fizban's addressing that.

 

 Not to be that guy, but according to the DMG this is quite literally going to be a medium to high medium difficulty encounter for a level 20 party. So if it is not an easy fight for level 20s, I am kind of confused by the metrics. He doesn't even take up the encounter EXP budget even inside of his lair for the standard 4 person party. This guy and a lich combined is a hard encounter if not in their lairs, so if you wanted it to be the final climactic fight, based on DMG you would actually have to make it much harder or throw a few encounters in first to make sure the party is going in weakened. Not saying the dragon is bad in any way, just saying that the original poster was entirely justified making a stronger version since most Ancient Red Dragons would be a boss fight for high levels, and this guy is literally calculated at below a high difficulty fight. So the original poster was pretty justified by making changes to have this become a good final boss battle for a level 20 party.

 I'm having a hard time confirming your XP calculations. A High Difficulty encounter for a level 20 group (4 characters) is anything over 52,800 XP (all monster CRs are calculated for four player groups). Here, the Ancient Red Dragon is a 62,000 XP encounter alone and outside its lair. Inside its lair, the Ancient Red Dragon is a 75,000 XP encounter. Both are High Difficulty encounters for a group of level 20 characters.

You are meant to read the table in the DMG as a range. For a level 1 group (4 characters), a Low Difficulty encounter is 0–200 XP, a Medium Difficulty encounter is 200–300 XP, and a High Difficulty encounter is 300–400 XP. The way the DMG describes it is: "Multiply the number in the table by the number of characters in the party to get your XP budget for the encounter" (emphasis added). The language "budget" means that to stay within that given Difficulty category, the XP/character ratio should not exceed that value. This is reinforced by the following section that reads "[s]pend as much of your XP budget as you can without going over" (emphasis added).

So what does it mean to go above the recommended High Difficulty XP value for your group? It means you're creating an encounter suited for a group at a higher level. Since 20 is the highest level, I'll call these higher levels "virtual levels/virtual groups." For example, at level 20 the XP budget for a High Difficulty encounter is 88,000. So, a 96,000 XP encounter is either a Low, Medium, or High Difficulty encounter for a group of virtual level 21 characters. This pattern continues on such that a virtual level 24 group's encounter with an Ancient Red Dragon will be Medium Difficulty. The easiest way to see this is looking in reverse. Take the Lamia for example. The Lamia is a CR 4 creature worth 1,100 XP. Divided amongst 4 characters, that gives 275 XP per character, which constitutes a Medium Difficulty encounter for a level 4 group. That's what CR means: a group whose average level equal to that CR will face a Medium Difficulty encounter when fighting that creature by itself.

I hope this clarifies things. I understand this aspect of things can be confusing, but the examples in Combat Encounter Difficulty help. (And complications like this is why I recommend DMs not alter monster stat blocks without due consideration!)

Quote from Sigilavox >>

Imposing art, but a surprisingly tame spell list. Well, nothing a little addition or two can't fix!

Heat Metal (level 3 version) seems sufficiently cruel for a red dragon's tastes. It might be an At Will spell, perhaps as an alternative option to Scorching Ray (level 3 version) during Multiattack.

Seeing as how they lair up in mountains and apocalyptic ruins, Earthquake at 1/Day might be cinematic, especially if the dragon takes to the air and hurls Fire Breath down at the now-disoriented party. Slow-roasted adventurers at the bottom of a pit, Kalua-style, anyone?

And, for the truly devious DM...

Imagine an Ancient Red Dragon feared for having truly invincible scales, who can cast Invulnerability at 1/Day... which they always do just before flying into melee! Watch the mortals' fear as their pitiful spells and weapons bounce right off. The shock! The awe! The drama! Be the red dragon every other dragon dreams they could be! Die, insects!

 This is good, but I have a few suggestions. Level 6 Fireball is less than half the strength of the ancient red dragon's fire breath, and using it takes an entire action, so I suggest scrapping it. Incendiary Cloud or Meteor Swarm could be cool additions, so maybe consider adding those to make it stronger. I'd suggest only having one or two of these level 8 and 9 spells, though, just to keep it balanced.

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from theron >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from Sigilavox >>

Imposing art, but a surprisingly tame spell list. Well, nothing a little addition or two can't fix!

Heat Metal (level 3 version) seems sufficiently cruel for a red dragon's tastes. It might be an At Will spell, perhaps as an alternative option to Scorching Ray (level 3 version) during Multiattack.

Seeing as how they lair up in mountains and apocalyptic ruins, Earthquake at 1/Day might be cinematic, especially if the dragon takes to the air and hurls Fire Breath down at the now-disoriented party. Slow-roasted adventurers at the bottom of a pit, Kalua-style, anyone?

And, for the truly devious DM...

Imagine an Ancient Red Dragon feared for having truly invincible scales, who can cast Invulnerability at 1/Day... which they always do just before flying into melee! Watch the mortals' fear as their pitiful spells and weapons bounce right off. The shock! The awe! The drama! Be the red dragon every other dragon dreams they could be! Die, insects!

Those suggests would definitely make a more powerful red dragon, but I wouldn't recommend making one of the strongest monsters in the MM substantially harder to kill (the red greatwyrm from Fizban''s already provides a nigh-unstoppable version of the red dragon). I think your players will find this stat block provides quite a bit of "shock" and "awe." Consider that it has an AC of 22, high saving throws, over 500 hit points, and the ability to deal on average 114 damage each turn (not including spells or Fire Breath). Even a group of level 20 characters will not have an easy time fighting this monster. If you're looking for ways to make a dragon more distinctive or overtly impressive, I suggest looking at the specific features discussed in Fizban's addressing that.

 

 Not to be that guy, but according to the DMG this is quite literally going to be a medium to high medium difficulty encounter for a level 20 party. So if it is not an easy fight for level 20s, I am kind of confused by the metrics. He doesn't even take up the encounter EXP budget even inside of his lair for the standard 4 person party. This guy and a lich combined is a hard encounter if not in their lairs, so if you wanted it to be the final climactic fight, based on DMG you would actually have to make it much harder or throw a few encounters in first to make sure the party is going in weakened. Not saying the dragon is bad in any way, just saying that the original poster was entirely justified making a stronger version since most Ancient Red Dragons would be a boss fight for high levels, and this guy is literally calculated at below a high difficulty fight. So the original poster was pretty justified by making changes to have this become a good final boss battle for a level 20 party.

 I'm having a hard time confirming your XP calculations. A High Difficulty encounter for a level 20 group (4 characters) is anything over 52,800 XP (all monster CRs are calculated for four player groups). Here, the Ancient Red Dragon is a 62,000 XP encounter alone and outside its lair. Inside its lair, the Ancient Red Dragon is a 75,000 XP encounter. Both are High Difficulty encounters for a group of level 20 characters.

You are meant to read the table in the DMG as a range. For a level 1 group (4 characters), a Low Difficulty encounter is 0–200 XP, a Medium Difficulty encounter is 200–300 XP, and a High Difficulty encounter is 300–400 XP. The way the DMG describes it is: "Multiply the number in the table by the number of characters in the party to get your XP budget for the encounter" (emphasis added). The language "budget" means that to stay within that given Difficulty category, the XP/character ratio should not exceed that value. This is reinforced by the following section that reads "[s]pend as much of your XP budget as you can without going over" (emphasis added).

So what does it mean to go above the recommended High Difficulty XP value for your group? It means you're creating an encounter suited for a group at a higher level. Since 20 is the highest level, I'll call these higher levels "virtual levels/virtual groups." For example, at level 20 the XP budget for a High Difficulty encounter is 88,000. So, a 96,000 XP encounter is either a Low, Medium, or High Difficulty encounter for a group of virtual level 21 characters. This pattern continues on such that a virtual level 24 group's encounter with an Ancient Red Dragon will be Medium Difficulty. The easiest way to see this is looking in reverse. Take the Lamia for example. The Lamia is a CR 4 creature worth 1,100 XP. Divided amongst 4 characters, that gives 275 XP per character, which constitutes a Medium Difficulty encounter for a level 4 group. That's what CR means: a group whose average level equal to that CR will face a Medium Difficulty encounter when fighting that creature by itself.

I hope this clarifies things. I understand this aspect of things can be confusing, but the examples in Combat Encounter Difficulty help. (And complications like this is why I recommend DMs not alter monster stat blocks without due consideration!)

 These high-CR creatures are supposed to be rare and it's not like you'll fight a lot of these. I think that to make a boss more interesting, you should absolutely think about customizing it, but think about its final CR to make sure your party can handle it. Also, a creature with a CR equal to the party's average level is supposed to be an easy encounter.

noooooooo mooooooooore copyyyyyyyyyyyyyyying eeeeeeeeeeeeech otherrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!