Designer Insights from Unearthed Arcana: Mystic Subclasses

I like these but I’m confused by the level 17 feature on the Monk. They only have 2 attacks on the Attack action so how would replacing them be any different than taking the magic action to cast the spell? Should it be 1 Attack?

Quote from KildrakKegsplitter >>

I like these but I’m confused by the level 17 feature on the Monk. They only have 2 attacks on the Attack action so how would replacing them be any different than taking the magic action to cast the spell? Should it be 1 Attack?

 I think the intention is that you could still spend a ki point to flurry of blows after or before casting the spell.
At that level monks get 3 attacks from a flurry so something like "sacrifice 2 attacks to cast hold person, then flurry to unarmed strike 3 times" is a nice combo.

Nevermind what I said, you could take the magic action and also flurry of blows for attacks by default.  So I'm not sure what the level 17 feature is for either.

Quote from CultGaming >>

One question I have is whether or not the Vestige is in place of Find Familiar. An if not, can it even benefit from Pact of the Chain Invications? Personally I would love to have the Vestige as a main summon and the PotC Familiar as a utility piece.

Letting the vestige benefit from pact of the chain master (and related invocations) is an awesome idea.  Otherwise I can't see a warlock ever sacrificing their action to let the vestige attack (multiple eldritch blast rays are going to far outpace that small amount of damage), which leaves the vestige as doing nothing in combat but its 1/day bonus action ability, which is pretty unimpressive as the main feature of this whole subclass. 

Looks like you can command the vestige to make an attack with only a bonus action by default, I missed that line on my first reading. So Pact of the Chain isn't necessary at all, but giving it the benefits does still seem flavorful.

My take on all of these:

Monk: I love this subclass! With Bladesinger, College of Valor, and Eldritch Knight being in existence, I've always wanted to be a monk who can use magic in DND. While Warrior of the Elements is awesome, it isn't the same. This feels balanced and strong, so I wouldn't change much.

Paladin: As my Profile Name states, I love the Paladin class. This feels balanced and very useful at high levels, and it turns an already tanky class into one even better at survival. This seems great, I wouldn't change a single thing about it.

Rogue: This is also great. I don't have too much to say other than I think it's a little too strong that you can end a level 1 spell to then regain a level 2 spell. Otherwise, this seems pretty strong, but additionally, the sneak attack options are a little strong too. Maybe tweak those a bit, and then this subclass seems great.

Warlock. Arguably my favorite out of these, a summoner Warlock sounded like an awesome idea to me, and this seems like it will work well. I don't have any complaints about this, and I love the fact that you get to choose a Cleric subclass to learn spells from. I'd personally almost always choose War Domain, as it's currently my favorite Cleric Subclass in 2024e,  but that doesn't mean the other options aren't great. A healing Warlock (learning from Life Domain) could prove VERY powerful. And yet, I still think this is a very strong yet balanced subclass that fills in the niche of a summoner Warlock.

To sum up, all of these seem balanced right of the bat, with only a few tweaks being made, in my opinion. My favorites are the Vestige Warlock and the Spellguard Paladin, though I hope all of these make it to the rules.

The level 17 monk feature makes no sense as an ability, as it's replacing two attacks from the attack action with a level 1 or 2 spell. So you forgo an attack action to only cast a level 1 or 2 spell, but you can already just take a magic action to cast any level spell that you have a slot for.

The Monk is not a subclass. It is a monk that casts spells. Why can't there be any fun features?

The Paladin has a serious shortage of reactions. BOTH of their third level features take reactions.

I don't like how the Magic Stealer can barely use the magic they steal, but they can give it to others. Really doesn't fit the name. I really don't understand why, when the rogue steals the Blindness affecting the party mage, that mage regains a spell slot. Also, that feature unfairly benefits casters who happen to have a debuff spell on them. It's just really awful design.

The Vestige isn't very exciting. The 6th level feature is extra lame. And how is teleporting the only thing they thought of for Fiendish vestiges?

Quote from aep703 >>

The level 17 monk feature makes no sense as an ability, as it's replacing two attacks from the attack action with a level 1 or 2 spell. So you forgo an attack action to only cast a level 1 or 2 spell, but you can already just take a magic action to cast any level spell that you have a slot for.

 That is absurd. Somehow I hadn't noticed that. I get that these are rough drafts, but that's still quite the mistake.

Quote from BlobOfAwe >>

While I think this playtest is cool in theory, I feel like most of the subclasses feel a bit uninspired and underwhelming.

Mystic Arts Monk makes sense, but as others have mentioned it is lacking in flavour and unique identity. It's truly just "martial + spellcasting"

Spellguard Paladin seems alright from a mechanical standpoint, but just isn't very exciting to me. There's no big attraction to the subclass. Nothing terribly flashy or active, it just makes other spells more or less effective. It might benefit from some more active, general use combat utility.

Magic Stealer Rogue is first of all an awful name, I really hope that's a placeholder. Second, it's just not a very well thought out subclass lore-wise. Rogues are among the more grounded classes of DND, and even the more mystical ones like Psion and Arcane Trickster both have explanations for where their power originates. This one is just... a guy... who can grab magic? Somehow? Why is this a power? Why can't archmages recover slots from dispelling their own mage armor but some guy who literally doesn't know magic can pull it off and just hand them a spell slot more powerful than the original spell? I read this subclass and all I can think is "why?"

Vestige Patron is again and interesting concept, but I think it's unnecessary. A dying god that's either a celestial, fiend, or undead can just be represented by the Celestial, Fiendish, or Undead patrons. They're far more flavorful and will present their patronage in more interesting and clear ways than a vestige that can be all three, and therefore doesn't feel particularly connected to any. Additionally, it makes no sense that you can change the vestiges creature type. If your patron is a dying fiendish deity, then you can't just wake up one morning and say "oop, you're a celestial now!" That's nonsense.

In all cases, these subclasses lack clear identity and suffer from a lack of inspiration. It seems abundantly clear that these subclasses were born from someone saying "quick, we need more magic themed subclasses", rather than trying to make actually good ideas a reality. I don't think any of these should be printed as is.

 I agree. It's a terribly disappointing UA. The existing subclasses really do represent the vestige idea much better than "you have a familiar, and it gets better while you get nothing."

Sorcerer is more in line with Mystic and innate talent/spiritual mysticism than wizardry.

 Am I missing something?  Is this available in the Homebrew section for testing these Subclasses?  If not, why?  This seems like the PERFECT opportunity to place them in the Homebrew Subclasses section so people can actually use them...

Level 17 skill for Mystic Arts monk doesn't make sense: replace 2 attacks from your attack action for the use of a level 1 or 2 spell... It is a copy of the level 17 warrior Eldritch Knight skill, but It makes sense on It because they have 3 attacks by that level, 4 at level 20. 

Monks would be just using their attack action on using a spell, which is the same as if they use a Magic action, but worse, because It is limited to level 1-2 spells

It should be instead 1 attack, 1-2 hits from the flurry of blows or another bonus action choice (or even better, another new and cooler skill instead of a copy of the warrior one, as the level deserves It).

Warrior of the Mystic Arts is clearly just Monk's version of Eldritch Knight, but a version of EK for Monk isn't necessarily a bad idea. I don't even mind it gets the Sorcerer list rather than the Wizard, though like another poster said, Cleric spells are a natural fit with Monk and I wish it was at least an option, though not necessarily a replacement. (How there isn't a subclass in Cleric or Monk that blends the two is beyond me.)

Combining the Focus Points with Font of Magic for Mystic Focus is a nice touch. Thumbs up there.

Both Mystic Fighting Style and Improved Mystic Fighting Style are literally War Magic and Improved War Magic from EK Fighter, with each gained one level sooner thanks to the difference in the classes' progressions. Others note how Improved Mystic Fighting Style is actually worse than Improved War Magic due to the differences in how Fighter attacks versus Monk, and, well, they have a good point: You can use Improved Mystic Fighting Style to cast a level 1 or 2 spell by forgoing two attacks or you can just cast a spell at level 1, 2, or 3 without it, and since monks only make two attacks as an action anyway...

Further, the Level 11 feature, Centered Focus, is a discount, more restrictive War Caster and if you take the actual War Caster feat -- which it giving a +1 bonus to Wisdom makes it a viable option -- makes the subclass feature worthless. To me, a subclass (or a class) feature should excite you or, barring that, should always have something that distinguishes it from a similar feat. This technically fits the latter, but to the negative.

Another issue that bothers me is that while an Eldritch Knight can pick up extra Wizard spells through Magic Initiate and have them work with their EK features, the Mystic Arts Monk could not do the same as Sorcerer spells are not an option in the 2024 version of the feat, and even if your DM allows for 2014 feats, that version of MI forces its sorcerer spells to use Charisma RAW. Perhaps allowing the Mystic Arts Monk to have an additional cantrip or two along the way could make up for that.

Also, many of Foxtrot777's ideas sound like fun and should still be able to make Warrior of the Mystic Arts feel different than the Warrior of the Elements, despite their both having magical flair.

Quote from nitro_dynamite18 >>

Why does the Monk subclass gain Sorcerer spells? Cleric or Wizard are the ones that make sense. You're just making a Monk subclass that's worse at being a Sorcerer than the Sorcerer already is.

The Rogue is also bewildering. What about the Drain Magic feature screams Rogue? That's a perfect Sorcerer or Wizard thing. Make that a spell and give it to those classes.

Paladin subclass looks pretty cool. Not sure how crazy I am about giving them the shield, given they're half-casters and have heavy armor, but I think this one has serious potential.

I don't quite get the Warlock subclass, but that's probably because I don't usually care for pet-focused subs. It looks interesting, though.

The rogue subclass is their attempt at bringing over the 3.5e Spellthief class, which did all of these, including using sneak attack (and reducing sneak attack damage to use special abilities to hamper opponents), but the problem is that Spell Thief is an arcane trickster ability (and was originally part of the spellthief base class features in 3.5), which is probably why it's called a magic stealer instead. The thing though is that the actual spellthief base class was a similar caster to the ranger and paladin, so it stole spells to boost itself. This one is much more "team player" oriented.

Actually, thinking on it, there was a variant archetype that gave you the same spellcasting as a bard. So, this could have probably worked out decently as a bard College too.

I really wish that this archetype had converted the ability to eat magic, which allow you to heal double the hp of the spell level consumed, and if the spell was 5th level or higher, you could also neutralize poison or disease on yourself, or the spell took on the properties of a restoration spell.

Flavor seems better then anything else in here

Okay, can someone explain to me what I’m missing with the Mystic Monk’s level 17 feature?

You can replace two attacks in the attack action to cast a level 1 or 2 spell that has the cast time of an action? Monk’s extra attack feature ONLY gives two attacks, and your bonus action unarmed strike doesn’t require you to take the attack action beforehand. That’s just a thing you can do.

So, I can use my whole attack action to cast a level 1 or 2 spell and do an unarmed bonus attack… or I can just cast a regular spell of ANY level and still do an unarmed bonus attack…

The monk's level 17 Improved Mystic Fighting Style is super lame and does less than anything except with one weird situation. The whole "When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace two of the attacks with a casting of one of your level 1 or 2 Sorcerer spells that has a casting time of an action." does absolutely nothing since monks only ever get 2 attacks for their Attack Action unless you multiclass/feat yourself a weapon mastery and use something with the Nick property. At this point you could just use a Magic Action to cast a level 1-4 spell instead of 1-2.

i think the rogue is really nice and add a lot of flavor for a dull class, i don't undestand why he dose not have spells slot, is really powerfull, but he can be an half spellcaster to have more utility, maybe the wizard spells 

Quote from Neverfate >>

Move over Scion of the Three, somehow we have a new "worst D&D 2024 rogue subclass." In record time too. My favorite part is outside of the trigger and immediacy, the Magic Stealer rogue's first feature is legit just a remix of the Scion of the Three's first feature. Use reaction to get Sneak Attack bonus a number of times per day equal to Int. It's the same thing. Are you that strapped for ideas? Not to mention that half of 2024 rogues are Int based now. Can we get a Wisdom or Charisma secondary subclass? 

The rest of the class isn't looking so hot either. Another dodgy feature that involves removing spells from an ally, but a lot of the new MM enemies don't use spells nearly as much as 2014. More useless Cunning Strikes in place of actual class features and then there's never been a reason to play a rogue past 10 in this edition so yeah. That's that. 

 It triggers off of your allies casting spells first of all not just enemies, and second of all the amount of times I've seen a ranger or warlock waste hex and Hunter's Mark because the enemy went down faster than we thought and there was no combat for another hour is incredibly high this lets you give them that spell slot back.

Warrior of the Mystic Arts is just an other half a...caster and more of a sorcerer subclass than anything else. Invent some new mechanics instead of giving them spells and "oh, and also, you're a punchy monk", the Rogue sounds more promising.

Monk: uninspired, but functional. There will be plenty of people who apply their own narrative shape to this, but the creators mailed this one in without any seasoning.   

Paladin: uninspired and not even particularly effective.  Feels like someone else's idea done badly out of spite.  

Rogue: unsure of power level, but a creative twist to encourage the loner to become a team player. I'm hoping play test shows this to be a hit. 

Warlock: I'm not sure warlock needs a pet focused subclass,  but this seems fine. In light of this subclass though, it really shines a spotlight on the lack of teamwork invocations.