Designer Insights from Unearthed Arcana: Underdark Options

Quote from Marandahir >>

These options are cool niche concepts that would better fit in a 3rd-party supplement than a core D&D book.

We need WotC to proritize getting the still missing but more adaptable subclasses out the door. Stuff that could be used in ANY campaign, not just a FR-specific Drow-specific campaign.

And in any case, these are the sorts of options that belong in backgrounds and feat trees, not in subclasses. 

 You are definitely wrong. These options should absolutely be included in official material, even if some adjustments are necessary. If you want material for drow, just ask for it; there is no need to disparage what has been presented. Your attitude is disgraceful.

Agreed. As a player i always go for drow and as a gm i usually end up with a drow at my table, I'm more than happy to take drow options. These could have a little more to them mechanically, they seem kind of weak in terms of features but at least we're getting something and the opportunity to say "we like this, here is how we would like it more"

Counterpoint:

Level 3: You'll be dead long before you do decent damage. Have you seen how much damage 2024 Monsters can do at range, let alone using damage types not resisted like Force? The issue here is that it is Melee attacks only and it doesn't nothing to make Melee safer.

Level 6: Anti-synergy with the Barbarian's cool new ability to boost skills like Stealth by shining an obvious light. You can get 10 feet of Blindsight as a Fighting Style Feat at level 2 on a Fighter. You can cast the Light cantrip and get more light than this. This feature and subclass needs to pick a lane.

Level 10: It is cool that they have an alternate Brutal Strike. It is too weak. As to the stacking, the Monster or you will be dead long before stacking this small amount of damage would matter at Level 10.

Level 14: The Berserker capstone is weak because so many monsters are Immune to the Frightened condition. I wouldn't want to compare to that. Something as effective as the World Tree or Zealot would be a better comparison. Not that anyone would persist for 14 levels given what comes before.

The Martial classes have nothing at any given level as powerful as a spell available at that level. Giving a subclass features worse than another subclass doesn't help the class get played and it definitely doesn't help the subclass to get played.

I just really hope they won't keep the name "Path of", since that's used for Barbarian subclasses, and it will cause confusion. Maybe something dark like "Descent into Ceremorphosis", "Descent into Lichdom", "Descent of the Death Knight," etc.

I will say I always love another Wizard Subclass and more Ceremorphosis stuff. Im already imagining the billions of ways I could flavor this omg

Illithid fans are excited by this new content! There is one lore error in the pdf I want to point out: page 5 states that "the resulting mindf layer retains the memories of its host," which is inconsistent with existing lore. Mind flayers usually DON'T retain memories, or even the skills, of the hosts they emerge from! Surviving memories are seen as a flaw, while they persistently fail to keep the skills of heroes they turn. (That they might retain only a few dim memories shows up in Volo's Guide to Monsters) 

It is very interesting to see these new abilities and conceptualization of a person going down the path of ceremorphosis! Players getting to retain agency over their character, with that character's memories and personality intact as they become a mind flayer, is very exciting. Could you please clarify in the text that this is an exception to the typical outcome of ceremorphosis? (renegade illithids and mind flayers with partialism are rare and interesting, so again-- very exciting!)

The Ceremorphosis Variables table explains why the character resists the elder brain, but not why the ceremorphosis itself is slow and identity-preserving. In Baldur's Gate 3, the spoiler-free reasons for this involve a meeting of truly exceptional legends in a moment of looming multi-planar catastrophe. What could produce these effects in a more modest setting?

As a suggestion, one quality of illithids that I feel never gets enough screentime is their tendency for genetic experimentation, including on their own kind. Do the players have a tadpole that has been deliberately tampered with? Did they escape from an illithid lair, where they were infused with mindflayer tissue? Is the whole "player slowly ceremorphoses but keeps their skills, knowledge, and identity while mentally sparring with an elder brain" some illithid conspiracy to circumvent the limitations of ceremorphosis explored in my first point? An Illithid experiment would just be such a fun idea, and feels a bit more likely to go well than "strikingly lucky tadpole host."

Counterpoint: [...]

   ...Yeah, fair, I guess I was far too focused on just comparing the features level-by-level directly to the other Barbarian subclasses and not really considering the whole picture fitting together. Or in other words, I just couldn't see the forest for the trees...  Plus I somehow absolutely was not really thinking about just how prevalent ranged attacks could actually be, oops.  (I'm relatively new to this hobby, and clearly still have much to consider, so thank you.)

  However, I am going to be downright stubborn and maintain that, although it's still not good, the Level 6 feature itself is relatively decent enough as-is, at least in direct comparison unless & until every other 5.5 Barbarian gets a buff here (including other Unearthed options), since they can mostly be boiled down to simply either a mere ribbon or alternate Reaction at this level.  Sure, it really doesn't do much, but I will at least somewhat gladly take Proficiency and Expertise (ignoring multiclassing and/or using up a Feat choice) to increase my Passive Perception as a standalone ribbon.

The Mind Flayer path is awesome. Could be really fun, especially paired with the right class. I'm a fiend warlock, and the idea of having a demon and an elder brain arguing while you fight could be cool.

I really miss the "underdark druid" subclass from 2d ed.  Have not seen anything like it since.  Wish they would bring THAT back...

The House Agent is a clever concept—who wouldn’t want to play a devious Menzoberranzan drow? But it is both underpowered and too complicated. Above all it severely lacks anything that gives the subclass value to the party once combat begins until level 17 and to be honest, then its superpowered Friends cantrip and Cunning strike are just immersion breaking. Here’s how I would fix it.

1. You’ve included two options to represent the House Agent as a factor of diplomacy and betrayal —the Friends cantrip and Influence actions as a bonus action. This is inelegant design. Pick a lane! It is by far more unique to be able to Influence a creature as a bonus action and lends itself to good roleplaying—why not forget about Friends and lean into that? Friends and other spells that inflict Charmed are thematically weird—are you a spellcaster?—and will ironically be terrible against Drow or anything else that has Fey Ancestry.

2. Let the Influence action become more mechanically powerful earlier.  At some point, let the House Agent take a special Influence action to affect the target’s attitude to the Party so long as they have not suffered damage from the Party—the House Agent seduces enemies to your side via bribes or influence or whatever. Being able to basically neutralize one sapient enemy per combat, or bring them to your side would be powerful and could be a great Core mechanic. If necessary build out a list of special Influence actions you can take even if the enemy is Unwilling and gate it behind resources (PB/LR, perhaps add 1 at the start of combat once you hit tier 3). Now you have real finite resources to manage.

2. The insignia is mechanically underwhelming and too complicated—give the subclass a Lolth/Menzoberranzan flavoured spell list tied to Cha that differentiates it from Arcane Trickster. Or, and I  prefer this—give them meaningful Menzoberranzan themed passives like Blindsight increased by 15ft., Darkvision increased by 60ft, language proficiency in Undercommon, etc., poison resistance. This is a smooth-talking, devious rogue, not a magic user. Rewrite it to reflect the training you receive from your House.

3. I dislike the spider familiar. I understand it is thematic, but it’s not very cool and it is mechanically underwhelming. The level 13 class feature for the spider is laughable and not very impactful—a magic user will have divination spells at that point, and it will hardly be better than a summon familiar Owl.

4. As written, this subclass barely has any usefulness to the party in combat until level 17. Why not lean into some typical Menzoberranzan drow combat mechanics earlier via impactful Cunning Strikes? —like a Lolth’s Sting style cunning strike that can knock enemies unconscious but has a higher DC than the Item? That would be easier to understand and give this House Agent a good control feature after combat. The betrayal cunning strike is fine but can basically only be used at the start of combat assuming you have used Influence actions (or Friends) to make someone Friendly.  Otherwise it’s not worth it.

The Illithid path feats are terrific, no notes.

I like the drow one, but i've always been a drizzt fan 

The Path of Ceremorphosis is woefully inaccurate to lore. BG3 tadpoles were magically modified so could get a pass, and people debate on if [spoilers] was The Adversary or Strom Wakeman was. Either way, The Adversary is rare to unique. Otherwise the tadpole straight up becomes the mindflayer, and the actual person is gone. Maybe gate remaining yourself/Full partialism under a ridiculously high DC OR you need certain things to re-create what Strom Wakeman did. If you want aberrant flavored stuff, there is stuff in the Lords of Madness book to get inspo from.

Quote from Eudevie >>

The Path of Ceremorphosis is woefully inaccurate to lore. BG3 tadpoles were magically modified so could get a pass, and people debate on if [spoilers] was The Adversary or Strom Wakeman was. Either way, The Adversary is rare to unique. Otherwise the tadpole straight up becomes the mindflayer, and the actual person is gone. Maybe gate remaining yourself/Full partialism under a ridiculously high DC OR you need certain things to re-create what Strom Wakeman did. If you want aberrant flavored stuff, there is stuff in the Lords of Madness book to get inspo from.

 Did you not read the table that came with the Path? Also, FR lore only applies to the Forgotten Realms.

and this UA about FR - because it has Imascar

The subclasses are so cool. I hope to play with them soon

Someone buff these and publish them

usinh the dnd beyond crealtor  or give me broad promos and I’ll publish them their for you

Once a character becomes a mind flayer, do they retain all their previous skills and abilities (spells for example)?

I would assume so, but it’s not really clear.

They are not changed into the mind flayer stat block, it is simply a set of feats that you can take just like any other.