Base Class: Druid
The Circle of Thorns is a collection of martial druids who have an affinity with spiked plants, who gladly throw themselves into the fray without taking an animal's shape. Druids of this circle are typically highly disciplined, and learn how to coat themselves in a plant-like skin, covered in razor-sharp needles. Unlike most druids, they actively hunt anything they consider dangerous before it can even threaten the balance of nature. Druids of this circle are some of the most susceptible to falling to evil, although they are also the most likely to seek out evil and destroy it.
The startling appearance of their thorn-covered forms differs depending on where the individual druid learned the technique. Some forms appear reminiscent of ragged brambles, while others take aspects from roses, thistles, or desert cacti.
Thorn Shape
When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you master the ability to coat yourself in piercing thorns and a rough, plant-like skin.
As a bonus action, you may expend a use of Wild Shape and, instead of transforming, you gain Thorn Shape. Thorn Shape lasts for 10 minutes, and grants you the following benefits:
- You gain 3 temporary hit points for every level you have in this class.
- You gain a bonus to Constitution saving throws. The bonus equals your Wisdom modifier (minimum of +1).
- When a creature hits you with a melee attack or grapples you, the creature takes damage equal to 2 + half your level in this class. A creature can only receive this damage once per turn.
You cannot use Wild Shape while using this feature, and you cannot use this feature if you already under the effect of Wild Shape.
Fighting Style
At 2nd level, you adopt a style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can’t take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if something in the game lets you choose again.
Dueling
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Protection
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Extra Attack
Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Grasping Roots
When you reach 10th level, your affinity with plants has began to cause physical changes. You can extend root-like tendrils from your feet that grasp at nearby surfaces, granting you the ability to move up, down, and across vertical surfaces and upside down along ceilings, while leaving your hands free. This does not increase your climbing speed. Extending or retracting the root-tendrils is a free action, and they cannot be seen while not extended.
Additionally, if you spend a short rest with the root-tendrils grasping into soft earth, they absorb enough nourishment to sustain you for one day, and you heal for an additional 1d6 hit points at the end of the short rest.
Venomous Spines
When you reach 14th, you can channel your Thorn Shape along your weapon to coat it with poisonous spikes. When you make a melee weapon attack while under the effect of your Thorn Shape, you deal an additional 1d8 poison damage.
I really like the idea of a nature gish character however, I feel like giving a full caster fighting styles is a bit much, think about Bladesinger Wizards, and Hexblade Warlocks they're are in my eyes the best subclasses for both respective classes, so giving a druid a class which is the best class for AOE and Support characters Fighting Styles seems a bit overpowered but hey that's just my opinion.
I think over all this build is pretty sweet, both flavor and mechanics wise. My main gripe though is the 14th level perk, adding 1d8 at level 14 even of itself is a rather lackluster ability then factor in that like 80% of monsters of a CR over like 8 have resistance or immunity to poison. What if you added in "whenever a creature deals melee damage to you while in your thorns form, that creature must make a Constition saving throw or becom poisoned for 1 minute (this affect ignores poison immunity). Also I would like to see the Defensive Fighting Style in there too.
Hello,
wouldn't this subclass be better for a ranger? Rangers fit the theme since they have access to the same thorn theme spells like spike growth and grasping vine, but they have ensnaring strike on top of that which druids don't have access to. On the flip side rangers do not have entangle, but that can be easily fixed by giving the subclass an expanded spell table.
You could also squeeze an extra feature instead of Fighting style and Extra attack since ranger gets that by default. Additionally, Rangers can wear armour made of metal and they have proficiency with martial weapons, meaning players would not feel too punished for playing druid in melee.
I am aware that ranger is not a full spellcasting class, however it would be awesome to see if this subclass had a ranger variant.
Something I noticed - for whatever reason, Entangle is listed as part of the Fighting Style feature. Is that intentional?
Hi Vaegrim, thanks again for your continued feedback.
I think you're mistaken when it comes to the fighting styles. We already have existing subclasses that grant you a choice of 2 styles, if I did trim it down. Great Weapon Fighting is largely going to be redundant, true, but I don't see that at all for the others. I think you're forgetting that you can draw/sheath weapons in combat. Want to cast a spell? Put a weapon away. Want to attack? Draw your weapon. The main disadvantage to this is that, if you've cast a spell, you then don't have a weapon ready to make opportunity attacks with until the next turn. Eldritch Knight fighter, paladin and ranger are just a few examples of how this has always been done. Eldritch Knight fighter, ranger, and college of swords, are also examples of spellcasters who can use two-weapon fighting without problems. I'm not sure if you actually read the fighting styles feature I have here, but archery was not even included. The available fighting styles always differ depending on what (sub)class offers them.
Druid is widely regarded as the least popular class for good reason. Moon druid, widely regarded as the best subclass, is still just a big sack of hit points. Wildshape forms don't have the damage to keep up with other classes as levels go on, even when buffed via Moon druid features. You can very easily keep up with a wildshape's damage just by using your weapon, with Circle of Thorns. You have less temporary hit points, but now you have the flexibility to cast spells. That's the entire trade-off.
While I don't think I really shouldn't be using wild shape as a currency, I'm definitely open to the idea of unlinking thorn shape from it. The question then, is it balanced to give any class 4 sets of temporary hit points, however few they might be? It's something I'll have to think about. It's worth noting that Bladesong has far many more restrictions, and only lasts 1 minute as opposed to 10 minutes, which is a major factor when considering back-to-back encounters (or the rare long fight). The exploration aspect is definitely something I dislike losing when Thorn Shape consumes Wild Shape, and largely the reason behind this subclass's level 10 feature.
The thorns damage should obviously be typed, good catch. I'll wait for more feedback/playtesting before making any other changes to it, given the variety of opinions given in these comments on it.
You really shouldn't be using wild shape as a currency, it "costs" the archetype far more than it needs to. You've clearly noticed the similarity to Bladesong, and that doesn't need to spend an existing wizard resource to function. Thorn Shape does a good job boosting the druid's defensive power (tempHP vs bonus AC) and enhancing their ability to maintain concentration. The thorns damage is untyped, and probably a bit too much when combined with the fighting style. I suspect between your goals for the circle and the limits of the Druid, the only viable choices will be Dueling and Protection. With the feature that constrained, you might as well axe it. You clearly don't want thorns druids taking Archery (for magic stone), Two-Weapon Fighting and Protection are non-starters (full hands can't cast somatic spells without material components), and there's no point in Great Weapon Fighting with a Shillelagh.
I saw your comment about restricting spellcasting, but that's entirely the point of wild shaping. Before you mention it; yes, I'm aware of the Spore Druid. I think it's a terrible mistake that will haunt druid homebrew even after they inevitably change it in the final release. Wild Shape is specifically forbidden from spellcasting as a throttle on how much of the druid's resources they can bring to bear on a single encounter. Removing that limit creates a situation where you're able to mix wild shape with spellcasting, and that has two potential problems. The first problem is that you undermine Beast Spells, the level 18 Druid feature. The second problem is that for non-moon druids, wild shape is more commonly an exploration tool. Various beast forms get new vision modes, movement types, skill proficiencies and special features (Keen Senses, Sure-Footed, Web Walker). Your Thorn druid may be just as strong in combat as Moon or Land but it has to burn through both pools (Spell Slots and Wild Shapes) to keep up; consuming its Out of Combat features to essentially no net gain. If you make no other changes about this archetype, consider removing mention of "wild shape uses" from thorn shape.
What is the range (reach) of your root-like tendrils that can grasp things? (10th level feature).
Perhaps you could specify that extra attack (6th level) doesn't apply when you take a beast's Multiattack action (as official ruling specifies).
Kind of a silly fix, but you didn't include the Fighting Styles :)
I like this class a lot though, this kind of melee spellcaster really appeals to me.
Hi pinheadlarry, thank you for leaving feedback!
The constitution saving throw bonus was added to reflect the sturdiness of the Thorn Shape and how it reinforces you. Plants are generally pretty resilient when you think what they go through without shelter, through wind, sun, rain, and snow - and the subclass later develops poison, so I feel like it makes sense to have a small bonus against it. I'm not against changing it, but I feel like it needs a bonus to concentration (constitution) saving throws at a minimum, given how many druid spell require concentration.
Regarding the bonus action, I gave the action economy a lot of thought when designing it. At the end of the day, the other weapon-based subclasses of the other full spellcaster classes (Bladesinger and College of Swords/Valor) don't actually get access to anything like Shillelagh. They just use their Strength/Dexterity. The druid can either do that, or wait an extra turn to be able to cast Shillelagh as well as activate Thorn Shape. It's a choice between upping your offense or defense on your first turn. There's a precedent or two for subclasses wanting two bonus actions, from ranger's Monster Hunter subclass (Slayer's Prey and Hunter's Mark both require bonus actions), to barbarian's Berserker (first turn you rage as a bonus action, which lets you get an extra attack as a bonus action, but since you've used your bonus action you have to wait until the next turn for that benefit). Again, I am definitely willing to consider changing it, but I'd need to hear more feedback.
The AC/thorn reaction is definitely something I'll keep thinking over.
I like the subclass as a whole, but the bonus to constitution saving throws seems kind of random, as I'm not sure how thorns growing around you protects you from things like exhaustion or poison effects, which make up a good portion of constitution saving throws. I think a slight boost to AC might make a bit more sense, given the whole thorn armor thing. Admittedly might be too strong. I would also increase the damage of the automatic thorn armor and make it a reaction, as that seems like a completely open part of the action economy, and I think it adds a more active function to your wildshape. Finally, because this subclass very likely relies heavily on casting shillelagh, transforming into your wild shape could very well make you useless for your first turn of combat, especially if you're out of spell slots. Perhaps allow wild shaping into this form as a free action, or as a reaction on your turn? Main problem is you have two bonus actions you want to take on the first round of almost any combat, which can make it feel clumsy or uncomfortable in play. Besides these few things though, I really like the subclass and I think it fills a really cool role in the game.
Hi AdmiralChry, thanks for the feedback!
Shillelagh was obviously something I was counting on for druids who wanted to pursue this subclass, although it's not necessary. Using that as a basis, however, we end up with 1d8 damage (4.5 average damage per hit). 1d8 is basically the same as bladesingers, who can't use two hands on a weapon (unless they want their bladesong to end). Venomous Spines was also designed to give a roughly equal damage bonus to what a bladesinger might be expected to gain at 14. I'm willing to give Circle of Thorns more melee damage, but a little worried about eclipsing Bladesinger.
Ultimately I think spells will always be better than melee attacks, but my real aim here is to make sure melee attacks are better than cantrips. Excluding cantrips, spells are limited by your spell slots, while melee attacks are unlimited. The problem is when cantrips are better than melee attacks, melee attacks become fairly pointless.
The better cantrips deal between 1d8 (sacred flame) and 1d10 (primal savagery) for druid. There's also poison spray, although it's range makes it less popular. Melee almost definitely outdoes those cantrips at the early levels (1d6/1d8 + ability modifier), dips at level 5, and is back on top at level 6. The problem is, cantrips then get a third bump in power at level 11, while druid offers nothing else until level 14 - Poison Spray can then arguably do more damage.
Cantrips vs Shillelagh/Versatile Quarterstaff (at level 11, with +4 to Wisdom) - average damages:
Sacred Flame: 13.5 damage
Primal Savagery: 15.5 damage
2x 1d8 Melee Attacks: 17
Poison Spray: 19.5
Poison Spray is the winner here, but melee can just about equal it if you find a +1 quarterstaff/club, and likely has more chance to hit. And this is without including the benefits to melee that one of the Fighting Styles could grant. With Dueling, we're looking at 21 damage here.
Once the Circle of Thorns druid hits 14, its melee damage surpasses all cantrips regardless of levels.
Thoughts? Like I say, I could bump it up, but it's almost certainly going to surpass Bladesinger/College of Swords melee capability if I do.
What I'm particularly interested in are comments on Thorn Shape, and what the general consensus is on its strength. Its purpose is to enable/encourage getting into melee, and needs to be more worthwhile than base-druid's Wild Shape in combat, and went through a lot of changes as I put the subclass together. Does it need to grant fewer hit points, or more than it currently does? Should it alter AC instead? What about its damage and limits?
All feedback is welcome!
A different use in combat for wild shape is great, and being able to cast spells in it makes it potent and different. I would be concerned at later levels that it might not be worth making attacks vs casting spells without increased damage output from simple weapons and shillelagh.
The Circle of Thorns subclass is a mixture of the wizard's Bladesinger and bard's College of Swords, weaving a decent defense and viable melee attacks in with a full spellcasting class. While all druids do already get animal forms that focus on melee combat, I feel they're often just a big mass of hit points, and restrict you from using your many spells.