Why wouldn't folks think they are the same company? I get it that they aren't now but I didn't realize that until I came here. Do you work for either company? Wondering if I pass my thoughts on to you if it would help. BTW I love this DnD Beyond so far but I am just as confused as many others about how to best use it.
I agree. Without that I certainly feel like I am being gouged by being coerced into buying again at a hefty price. The cost looks small but it adds up very quickly.
Legitimate concerns but creative leadership can figure out a solution and a fair price point. If the price points are fair you better be able to get that out to market or imho 5e will fail. Pathfinder will eat you up if you fail AGAIN. See 4e and the dismal decision to end the OGL.
So 70$ is fair to have a PHB and digital access? Maybe. IMHO it eliminates the average person and forget kids learning the game. Add in the other books and adventures and I quit. It's a price point that is just not bearable. I want to see you all win but I honestly don't think that will happen. Too greedy is the sense I get. Probably wrong. At least I hope so.
I don't work for either company. I'm just sick of hearing people complain that they feel entitled to something for free when they aren't entitled to it.
I have all the original James Bond soundtracks on vinyl, I've had them for years, since I was a kid. Now those soundtracks are available digitally. Am I entitled to free digital versions of those soundtracks because I originally bought the physical, vinyl versions? No, I'm not.
And no, I'm not a boomer (Gen X, for the record).
When you buy a physical book, what you actually own is the physical book, the covers, the paper, the physical material of it. You don't have any ownership of the ideas within that book, the story, the meaning of the words. You own the ink, but not the meaning that arises from it.
Whether or not WotC and DDB could give you a digital copy for free isn't relevant. They are not obligated to give it to you for free. They own it. It's theirs to do with as they please. If there was enough market pressure to make them give it for free, you might have an argument, but the fact that they continue to be successful selling both physical and digital copies seems to suggest there is no incentive for them to do what you want.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I don't work for either company. I'm just sick of hearing people complain that they feel entitled to something for free when they aren't entitled to it.
I have all the original James Bond soundtracks on vinyl, I've had them for years, since I was a kid. Now those soundtracks are available digitally. Am I entitled to free digital versions of those soundtracks because I originally bought the physical, vinyl versions? No, I'm not.
And no, I'm not a boomer (Gen X, for the record).
When you buy a physical book, what you actually own is the physical book, the covers, the paper, the physical material of it. You don't have any ownership of the ideas within that book, the story, the meaning of the words. You own the ink, but not the meaning that arises from it.
Whether or not WotC and DDB could give you a digital copy for free isn't relevant. They are not obligated to give it to you for free. They own it. It's theirs to do with as they please. If there was enough market pressure to make them give it for free, you might have an argument, but the fact that they continue to be successful selling both physical and digital copies seems to suggest there is no incentive for them to do what you want.
To be fair initially I thought that if I subscribe for DND Beyond I will get to use content from the books for free and it has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement.
In the era of subscription based services it's not hard to imagine the mindset that if I don't pay for each individual movie/tv show on Netflix/HBO or each individual track/album on Spotify/Tidal then I wouldn't expect to pay for content AFTER subscribing for D&D Beyond.
This should be the norm: purchase hardcover and get a free code for the website. All WotC needs to do is throw DDB a percentage and it can be done.
This wouldn't benefit the people who already have the books who want the free versions on DDB, who are the most vocal on demanding this feature
That would require shrink wrapping the books, something proven to deter sales (as people want to be able to leaf through the books)
Who would pay that percentage? Should WotC take a loss? DDB? The consumer pay more for books?
Let's assume everyone takes it on the chin; WotC takes a loss, DDB does and the books go up by $10. What about the consumers who don't want to use DDB? They're now paying extra for no benefit.
Also, what about losses? It now becomes trivial to steal copies on DDB; you just go into your gaming store, nip behind a bookshelf and pull off the shrink wrap and photograph/take the code. DDB loses out, and so does the store because they now can't sell that unwrapped copy at full price because the code is gone. Or they rewrap it and sell it, and someone who thinks they're getting the code isn't.
You could put codes behind the counter, but that still has the same loss prevention issues
Some people suggest point of sale code validation or generation. Cool, now local gaming stores now need to pay an not insignificant amount to upgrade their PoS till system to connect to DDB code generation database.
Basically, trying to get codes into D&D books will cause a non-zero amount of people to be worse off, and not just WotC or DDB.
Idk dude, I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. No need to shrink wrap (although, I know many bookstores that will make you buy the book if your flipping through pages willy nilly - so I don't see that as a bad thing)
I think something like a proof of purchase (that can only be made/obtained after purchasing the book through legal means) could be used to get the free electronic copy. For those who've already purchased it, provide a window period when this rolls out that allows people to prove they made the purchase brand-new. Doesn't help those who purchased in person, but those who bought online have an easy paper trail that leads to their purchase. WotC should take the loss, though DDB claims to be the "official" digital toolset - so they could eat it as well. I truly don't see much reason this can't happen without costing loads of money.
To be fair initially I thought that if I subscribe for DND Beyond I will get to use content from the books for free and it has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement.
In the era of subscription based services it's not hard to imagine the mindset that if I don't pay for each individual movie/tv show on Netflix/HBO or each individual track/album on Spotify/Tidal then I wouldn't expect to pay for content AFTER subscribing for D&D Beyond.
To be fair initially I thought that if I subscribe for DND Beyond I will get to use content from the books for free and it has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement.
In the era of subscription based services it's not hard to imagine the mindset that if I don't pay for each individual movie/tv show on Netflix/HBO or each individual track/album on Spotify/Tidal then I wouldn't expect to pay for content AFTER subscribing for D&D Beyond.
No where there does it say you get access to the books.
Yeah, I get it and I am not by any means trashing D&D Beyond here, I'm not saying that they advertise wrong or mislead. I just tried to explain my initial train of thought when I heard about it first, as a "subscription based platform to manage your D&D characters and campaigns".
My point is that it doesn't come necessarily from the position of entitlement to expect the books to be free when people are already used to a model of "I pay monthly so I don't have to buy individually".
You get it with movies and tv shows. You get it with music. You get it with games (I think Origin Access works like that). I do believe that there are also book subscriptions like that.
It's not unreasonable to think about D&D Beyond like that.
As I mentioned elsewhere, movies bought from Wal-mart are immediately available through Vudu but only because Wallyworld owns Vudu. Yet, most people are not aware of that relationship.
This leads to confusion in other situations especially where the relationship isn't known or isn't 100% clear to everyone. (It was clear to me, but I'm not everyone, and there seems to be enough people to suggest it's not 100% clear to everyone.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I would like to say to the people that are saying to make home-brew while that does work it only works to an extent I make everything from home-brew myself but you still can't get the artificer class through home-brew while it is the only class you can't get through the basic rules or critical roll it is still a minor issue
Im not sure where some of you are getting prices from. The players handbook can be had for far less then $49. In fact you can get it and pretty much of all the D&D books from Amazon for about $25-29. New at that. Third party stuff is a different story.
DnD Beyond is not legally permitted to give the material out for free because they don’t own it. Wizards of the coast owns the rights to D&D. They license those rights to sell digital copies to DnD Beyond the same way they sell physical copies of the books to Amazon.
As someone recently put it, if you buy a video game for PS, that doesn’t mean you get an X-Box copy for free.
I wonder if some of you think that if you own a copy of book one of Game of Thrones you should be able to watch GoT on HBO for free?
In any case, I’m going to tell you what I do so ya’ll can freak out and I get to jump on the forums later and chuckle at your responses.
I buy the hardback book. Why? Because it looks nice on my shelf and is my preferred method of reading D&D content.
I buy a digital version from Dndbeyond. Why? Because I’m a DM and I like to share as much content with my players as possible (ie they don’t have to pay for hardly anything). It’s extremely convenient and nobody has a better character builder.
I buy yet another version, this time a module for Fantasy Grounds from Smiteworks. Why? Because that is the mechanism I prefer to use to play the game.
Is it 3 version of the same thing? No. One is a book, one is digital access, and one is a VTT module to facilitate gameplay. 3 different products from 3 totally different companies. While some of it is repetitive, each serves a distinct purpose and those purposes justify my purchases. Won’t work for everyone but I’m paying out all this money because it saves me time.
Do I need to do all this? No, of course not. I could easily create my own home brew versions. But, I don’t have time for that so I am effectively paying someone else for their time to do it for me. So, I’m out a hundred bucks or so. Am I rich? No. This is my primary source of entertainment and social interaction, and yeah it’s some of the first things to go when I need to trim the budget. I am also very selective as to what content I get.
I get dozens of hours of entertainment and social activity. Compared to some of my other hobbies which include golf, hunting, fishing, and archery this is still way more bang for the buck. We all spend money on stupid stuff...this is my stupid stuff. But to think you should get a bunch of free stuff from various independent companies is absurd. And if money is an issue—which is always understandable—there is an astonishing amount of free content out there. Meanwhile, there’s not a single golf course that lets me play for free in my area...which is ridiculous because I once saw the movie “Tin Cup” and I should be able to play for free blah blah blah lol
PS: if you think they way this is done is a racket or some nefarious money making scheme, wait til you hear about the healthcare industry....lolololololol
PS: if you think they way this is done is a racket or some nefarious money making scheme, wait til you hear about the healthcare industry....lolololololol
Another thing to mention is that you can just buy the pieces you are using. Then purchase the whole thing when it justifies the cost. So original poster who is probably long gone could buy the fighter subclass he is playingfrom PHB while playing his first character, a magic item or two from dmg as he gets them, maybe 10bucks for an entire campaign. Next campaign plays a sorcerer get fancy get a subclass from another book another 10 bucks for another campaign. After that maybe he gets excited and decides to run a game uses a coupon for 25% off dmg and monster manual maybe $35 total after subtracting the thing they bought for the two characters.
I own the physical PHB, DMG, and MM. I also own DDB's PHB and XGtE.
The DDB features for the PHB cannot compare to the physical book. I need them both for what each does not offer with the other - a specific overlap that does not qualify as a single purchase in my opinion. I use them both almost equally but very differently but also never at the same time.
So far, I do not have a need for the DMG or MM at DDB. I also do not have a need for XGtE in physical form yet.
One day, I might need the MM or DMG at DDB. I might need to get the physical XGtE eventually. When those days happen, I'll get what I need.
(EDIT: On an aside, I will not change my budget for new spending during this time of quarantine - mental stress can lead to poor financial decisions. I have a list and I'm strictly sticking to it. So many things I've wanted to change and later realize that it was good I didn't change anything. So, better safe now than sorry for it later. DDB and WotC aren't going anywhere anytime soon.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Being the DM for our flgs means I have all the books, but to supplement everything for my players and any other game I might happen to find myself in, I decided to purchase all the books on DDB as well.
I started off with just the PHB, and week by week, I slowly added books till the cost of the Sourcebook bundle was less than what I would pay individually for the rest. Then I started doing the same thing with the Adventure bundle. Luckily, I hit on a great discount code when I had the extra money and got the entire Legendary bundle for a great discount, as well as a Master tier sub.
I was then able to purchase Wildemount and pre-order Theros before they were released.
Just take your time and be patient and slowly collect stuff as you need.
That is pretty much what I did it took about a year and a half. Now I preorder with the first decent coupon code that comes out when you combine a coupon code with the legendary bundle discount most books are under $20.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Why wouldn't folks think they are the same company? I get it that they aren't now but I didn't realize that until I came here. Do you work for either company? Wondering if I pass my thoughts on to you if it would help. BTW I love this DnD Beyond so far but I am just as confused as many others about how to best use it.
I agree. Without that I certainly feel like I am being gouged by being coerced into buying again at a hefty price. The cost looks small but it adds up very quickly.
Legitimate concerns but creative leadership can figure out a solution and a fair price point. If the price points are fair you better be able to get that out to market or imho 5e will fail. Pathfinder will eat you up if you fail AGAIN. See 4e and the dismal decision to end the OGL.
So 70$ is fair to have a PHB and digital access? Maybe. IMHO it eliminates the average person and forget kids learning the game. Add in the other books and adventures and I quit. It's a price point that is just not bearable. I want to see you all win but I honestly don't think that will happen. Too greedy is the sense I get. Probably wrong. At least I hope so.
I don't work for either company. I'm just sick of hearing people complain that they feel entitled to something for free when they aren't entitled to it.
I have all the original James Bond soundtracks on vinyl, I've had them for years, since I was a kid. Now those soundtracks are available digitally. Am I entitled to free digital versions of those soundtracks because I originally bought the physical, vinyl versions? No, I'm not.
And no, I'm not a boomer (Gen X, for the record).
When you buy a physical book, what you actually own is the physical book, the covers, the paper, the physical material of it. You don't have any ownership of the ideas within that book, the story, the meaning of the words. You own the ink, but not the meaning that arises from it.
Whether or not WotC and DDB could give you a digital copy for free isn't relevant. They are not obligated to give it to you for free. They own it. It's theirs to do with as they please. If there was enough market pressure to make them give it for free, you might have an argument, but the fact that they continue to be successful selling both physical and digital copies seems to suggest there is no incentive for them to do what you want.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
To be fair initially I thought that if I subscribe for DND Beyond I will get to use content from the books for free and it has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement.
In the era of subscription based services it's not hard to imagine the mindset that if I don't pay for each individual movie/tv show on Netflix/HBO or each individual track/album on Spotify/Tidal then I wouldn't expect to pay for content AFTER subscribing for D&D Beyond.
Idk dude, I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. No need to shrink wrap (although, I know many bookstores that will make you buy the book if your flipping through pages willy nilly - so I don't see that as a bad thing)
I think something like a proof of purchase (that can only be made/obtained after purchasing the book through legal means) could be used to get the free electronic copy. For those who've already purchased it, provide a window period when this rolls out that allows people to prove they made the purchase brand-new. Doesn't help those who purchased in person, but those who bought online have an easy paper trail that leads to their purchase. WotC should take the loss, though DDB claims to be the "official" digital toolset - so they could eat it as well. I truly don't see much reason this can't happen without costing loads of money.
To be fair, DDB explains what comes with a subscription. https://www.dndbeyond.com/subscribe
No where there does it say you get access to the books.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Yeah, I get it and I am not by any means trashing D&D Beyond here, I'm not saying that they advertise wrong or mislead. I just tried to explain my initial train of thought when I heard about it first, as a "subscription based platform to manage your D&D characters and campaigns".
My point is that it doesn't come necessarily from the position of entitlement to expect the books to be free when people are already used to a model of "I pay monthly so I don't have to buy individually".
You get it with movies and tv shows. You get it with music. You get it with games (I think Origin Access works like that). I do believe that there are also book subscriptions like that.
It's not unreasonable to think about D&D Beyond like that.
Misunderstandings happen. No harm, no foul.
As I mentioned elsewhere, movies bought from Wal-mart are immediately available through Vudu but only because Wallyworld owns Vudu. Yet, most people are not aware of that relationship.
This leads to confusion in other situations especially where the relationship isn't known or isn't 100% clear to everyone. (It was clear to me, but I'm not everyone, and there seems to be enough people to suggest it's not 100% clear to everyone.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I would like to say to the people that are saying to make home-brew while that does work it only works to an extent I make everything from home-brew myself but you still can't get the artificer class through home-brew while it is the only class you can't get through the basic rules or critical roll it is still a minor issue
Spam us with ads!!!!
That's What honey's For!
DnD Beyond is not legally permitted to give the material out for free because they don’t own it. Wizards of the coast owns the rights to D&D. They license those rights to sell digital copies to DnD Beyond the same way they sell physical copies of the books to Amazon.
As someone recently put it, if you buy a video game for PS, that doesn’t mean you get an X-Box copy for free.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
I wonder if some of you think that if you own a copy of book one of Game of Thrones you should be able to watch GoT on HBO for free?
In any case, I’m going to tell you what I do so ya’ll can freak out and I get to jump on the forums later and chuckle at your responses.
I buy the hardback book. Why? Because it looks nice on my shelf and is my preferred method of reading D&D content.
I buy a digital version from Dndbeyond. Why? Because I’m a DM and I like to share as much content with my players as possible (ie they don’t have to pay for hardly anything). It’s extremely convenient and nobody has a better character builder.
I buy yet another version, this time a module for Fantasy Grounds from Smiteworks. Why? Because that is the mechanism I prefer to use to play the game.
Is it 3 version of the same thing? No. One is a book, one is digital access, and one is a VTT module to facilitate gameplay. 3 different products from 3 totally different companies. While some of it is repetitive, each serves a distinct purpose and those purposes justify my purchases. Won’t work for everyone but I’m paying out all this money because it saves me time.
Do I need to do all this? No, of course not. I could easily create my own home brew versions. But, I don’t have time for that so I am effectively paying someone else for their time to do it for me. So, I’m out a hundred bucks or so. Am I rich? No. This is my primary source of entertainment and social interaction, and yeah it’s some of the first things to go when I need to trim the budget. I am also very selective as to what content I get.
I get dozens of hours of entertainment and social activity. Compared to some of my other hobbies which include golf, hunting, fishing, and archery this is still way more bang for the buck. We all spend money on stupid stuff...this is my stupid stuff. But to think you should get a bunch of free stuff from various independent companies is absurd. And if money is an issue—which is always understandable—there is an astonishing amount of free content out there. Meanwhile, there’s not a single golf course that lets me play for free in my area...which is ridiculous because I once saw the movie “Tin Cup” and I should be able to play for free blah blah blah lol
PS: if you think they way this is done is a racket or some nefarious money making scheme, wait til you hear about the healthcare industry....lolololololol
Word
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Another thing to mention is that you can just buy the pieces you are using. Then purchase the whole thing when it justifies the cost. So original poster who is probably long gone could buy the fighter subclass he is playingfrom PHB while playing his first character, a magic item or two from dmg as he gets them, maybe 10bucks for an entire campaign. Next campaign plays a sorcerer get fancy get a subclass from another book another 10 bucks for another campaign. After that maybe he gets excited and decides to run a game uses a coupon for 25% off dmg and monster manual maybe $35 total after subtracting the thing they bought for the two characters.
I own the physical PHB, DMG, and MM. I also own DDB's PHB and XGtE.
The DDB features for the PHB cannot compare to the physical book. I need them both for what each does not offer with the other - a specific overlap that does not qualify as a single purchase in my opinion. I use them both almost equally but very differently but also never at the same time.
So far, I do not have a need for the DMG or MM at DDB. I also do not have a need for XGtE in physical form yet.
One day, I might need the MM or DMG at DDB. I might need to get the physical XGtE eventually. When those days happen, I'll get what I need.
(EDIT: On an aside, I will not change my budget for new spending during this time of quarantine - mental stress can lead to poor financial decisions. I have a list and I'm strictly sticking to it. So many things I've wanted to change and later realize that it was good I didn't change anything. So, better safe now than sorry for it later. DDB and WotC aren't going anywhere anytime soon.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Being the DM for our flgs means I have all the books, but to supplement everything for my players and any other game I might happen to find myself in, I decided to purchase all the books on DDB as well.
I started off with just the PHB, and week by week, I slowly added books till the cost of the Sourcebook bundle was less than what I would pay individually for the rest. Then I started doing the same thing with the Adventure bundle. Luckily, I hit on a great discount code when I had the extra money and got the entire Legendary bundle for a great discount, as well as a Master tier sub.
I was then able to purchase Wildemount and pre-order Theros before they were released.
Just take your time and be patient and slowly collect stuff as you need.
That is pretty much what I did it took about a year and a half. Now I preorder with the first decent coupon code that comes out when you combine a coupon code with the legendary bundle discount most books are under $20.