I agree that there should be some kind of codes system seeing as say you buy the books then find out about d&d beyond and then prefer it, you then have to either spend days transferring it (which let’s be honest don’t bother arguing with that cos’ you wouldn’t be bothered either that’s why you buy online copies) or repurchase them all which looking at the website is £600+ which isn’t something everyone just has to spend on something. So the best solution would be to have WOTC team with DDB and have it so if you buy online you get sent a copy of the book and if you buy irl you get emailed a code to get the book online that way no one loses profit because your gonna then pay the same no matter what. I will GLADLY argue anyone who has any problems with this plan as I don’t see an issue with it
In your scenario somebody pays a set sum and gets both digital version from D&D Beyond and a physical version from... somewhere - neither WotC or D&D Beyond are distributors, so this would require a physical distributor with online service like Amazon. Right?
OK.
When you buy from D&D Beyond a very large part of what you pay goes to WotC and some goes to D&D Beyond. This is usually cheaper than getting the physical book because it's digital. You can get "just the book" as a digital version of the book for $20 or can add that extra $10 to unlock features options for use with the site tools like the Character Builder. Most of the $20 goes to WotC, a little to D&D Beyond while most of that extra $10 goes to D&D Beyond. Even that full $30, is still often cheaper than the physical book which is often around $35 to $50 depending on where you buy it, despite the higher cost nothing gets unlocked in site tools. The reason it is higher is because while some of that goes to WotC, some to the retailer where you bought it and then some has to go to the company that physically made the book (Hasbro, I believe?).
That's how it currently works and why we have the prices we do. Now, your suggest is for a single purchase to include both digital and physical and to unlock site tool options? This is going to mean giving you two licenses to the content (since you access it both ways) which means WotC are either going to get paid twice in one purchase or have to take a cut and lose out on profits. You're also going to need a distributor that can stock the books and send you a copy - meaning they'll still have to be paid. The people who make the books are now going to have make a lot more copies which means higher than usual costs for them, they'll need their share to compensate. D&D Beyond are, of course, going to want their share too for providing the content, making the tools and whatnot. On top of all this bringing so many different companies together is going to put more effort in setting this up, increased online transactions (online transactions incur charges to the site to maintain it, as they are run through separate e-payment systems who want money for their services) and you'll need a few extra people to liaison between these to keep this all running smoothly) so this will be compensated -- So all in all, there's not much of a cost benefit for us - we're just getting a slight discount IF WotC agree to take a paycut - which means you'll be paying around $50 to $70 per book, to get both versions rather than just $60 to $80. It's slightly less, sure, but not enough to really justify all the set up. Especially when trying to make it for past books.
And this is all specifically for D&D beyond stuff. Don't forget that D&D Beyond aren't the only official toolset. So, if WotC start making this a proper thing for D&D Beyond, the other toolset companies are going to want to do the same. That's going to result in huge losses WotC if they agree to the paycut mentioned before. If they don't take paycuts, then the costs will end the exact same as they are now.
Personally, it seems easier for everyone to just buy the digital here for $30 and the physical from Amazon for $30. It's not that much more than it would be with a deal.
Now, they may do some special things like the did with Essentials Kit, but these are pretty much special cases working on a specific product with a specific toolset as a one off. It's a great one-off marketing stunt and benefits the customer, but is not financially sustainable for all products (hence why we're not seeing it with new releases).
Even if we just go "code for discount" - it's still somebody taking a paycut. Why should they make a decision to get less money, just because you didn't have the forethought to get the right version of the product?
-
Or were you making the suggestion we pay the $30 on here and get a free book? That'll never happen, it'll be a financial disaster. Companies put in the work, they want their money. Even WotC - the licenses you pay for each book, digital or otherwise, is what allows them to continue making new products, new services, new events, etc. Everyone needs their slice of the pie to continue existing and improving as they are. Start giving away stuff for free and the business will collapse which can eventually mean no more D&D. Since we all enjoy this hobby I doubt we want that. So maybe just accept businesses do what they have to and pay up.
Or you could just buy the digital version here and download the unlocked compendium to the free DDM app and have both the digital versions for your enjoyment all for $30.
I agree that there should be some kind of codes system seeing as say you buy the books then find out about d&d beyond and then prefer it, you then have to either spend days transferring it (which let’s be honest don’t bother arguing with that cos’ you wouldn’t be bothered either that’s why you buy online copies) or repurchase them all which looking at the website is £600+ which isn’t something everyone just has to spend on something. So the best solution would be to have WOTC team with DDB and have it so if you buy online you get sent a copy of the book and if you buy irl you get emailed a code to get the book online that way no one loses profit because your gonna then pay the same no matter what. I will GLADLY argue anyone who has any problems with this plan as I don’t see an issue with it
Doing this would significantly increase the price of the books, because both WOTC's costs and DDB's costs would have to be covered, not mention the expectation both companies have for some profit. There also be would be significant costs for both companies in terms of additional staff and infrastructure needed to handle authentication, codes, shrink wrapping of books, shipping, and probably a batch of other things I'm not thinking of. If they chose to do this, we would then be hearing complaints from the folks who only want physical books or only want digital ones, because they would be forced to pay for for a service they don't want.
There would be no way to retroactively apply this to those who had purchased physical books, and it would be a significant loss for either DDB or WOTC to cover the cost of physical books for DDB purchases unless those DDB purchasers were asked to pay the difference between the "old" price and the new "physical and digital" price.
I don't agree that the only options are "homebrew everything" and "pay £600+". There are lots of options in between those two extremes.
Make friends with someone who has a Master-tier subscription, and is willing to add you to a Campaign so that they can share their copy of the books with you. :)
In your scenario somebody pays a set sum and gets both digital version from D&D Beyond and a physical version from... somewhere - neither WotC or D&D Beyond are distributors, so this would require a physical distributor with online service like Amazon. Right?
This is not correct. The distributor would not require an online service for the purchase of a book to include a digital code. You would be required to either have the code on the receipt (game stores frequently do this) or include it in the book itself and sell the books wrapped. The latter would cost money. The Receipt method would not cost them anything after the initial set up and occasional trouble shooting.
That's how it currently works and why we have the prices we do. Now, your suggest is for a single purchase to include both digital and physical and to unlock site tool options? This is going to mean giving you two licenses to the content (since you access it both ways) which means WotC are either going to get paid twice in one purchase or have to take a cut and lose out on profits. You're also going to need a distributor that can stock the books and send you a copy - meaning they'll still have to be paid. The people who make the books are now going to have make a lot more copies which means higher than usual costs for them, they'll need their share to compensate.
D&D Beyond are, of course, going to want their share too for providing the content, making the tools and whatnot. On top of all this bringing so many different companies together is going to put more effort in setting this up, increased online transactions (online transactions incur charges to the site to maintain it, as they are run through separate e-payment systems who want money for their services) and you'll need a few extra people to liaison between these to keep this all running smoothly) so this will be compensated -- So all in all, there's not much of a cost benefit for us - we're just getting a slight discount IF WotC agree to take a paycut - which means you'll be paying around $50 to $70 per book, to get both versions rather than just $60 to $80. It's slightly less, sure, but not enough to really justify all the set up. Especially when trying to make it for past books.
And this is all specifically for D&D beyond stuff. Don't forget that D&D Beyond aren't the only official toolset. So, if WotC start making this a proper thing for D&D Beyond, the other toolset companies are going to want to do the same. That's going to result in huge losses WotC if they agree to the paycut mentioned before. If they don't take paycuts, then the costs will end the exact same as they are now.
Personally, it seems easier for everyone to just buy the digital here for $30 and the physical from Amazon for $30. It's not that much more than it would be with a deal.
(Sorry, edited the massive paragraph for readability)
First, adding a code in with the physical copy does not result in anyone getting paid twice. Nor do they take a loss on digital goods. (I am NOT saying digital goods should be free. I am saying there is no LOSS when digital goods are bundled with physical copies.) Nor will supply and demand for the books suddenly be high enough to cause a price increase by the distributor. (Hey, I could be wrong. But how many people simply use their DM's digital/physical library instead of buying their own copies?)
I don't know DDB's financial situation. I don't know how money is distributed within the company. Unless you know for sure, you shouldn't speculate or assume. They cap the online member list at 25,000. 1000 pages with 25 listings each. I promise there are more then that active most of the time. We can only speculate subscription/purchases on that limited pool. Considering they've claimed their active numbers have tripled since the pandemic... well. Yeah. I would compare DDB to AD&D Core Rules. Granted, in the way you'd compare a remote control flying airplane to a model airplane.
DDB and the other "toolsets" would be the only ones to lose out on profit, as people wouldn't have to buy the books a second time from them after buying the physical copy. There are people out there who have no interest in the physical copies, so digital versions of the books would still get sold. Not to mention these sites have other transactions they profit from.
Now, they may do some special things like the did with Essentials Kit, but these are pretty much special cases working on a specific product with a specific toolset as a one off. It's a great one-off marketing stunt and benefits the customer, but is not financially sustainable for all products (hence why we're not seeing it with new releases).
Even if we just go "code for discount" - it's still somebody taking a paycut. Why should they make a decision to get less money, just because you didn't have the forethought to get the right version of the product?
Discounts and sales actually end in a net gain. Please do not perpetuate the misinformation that it hurts the developer/publisher/distributors to put a product on sale. Sales entice people who would otherwise not purchase the product. Getting $72 (20% off) from someone who had no interest in the product at retail price is a gain, a profit. And I have to, again, point out that digital goods do not have a production cost like physical copies do. Making less(key word) of a profit is not the same has having to hand out pay-cuts because you are taking a loss.
That last bit... not sure what you mean by having the forethought to get the right version of the product. Seems rather insulting to people who play still play around a physical table and like having books on hand when net access isn't possible.
Or were you making the suggestion we pay the $30 on here and get a free book? That'll never happen, it'll be a financial disaster. Companies put in the work, they want their money. Even WotC - the licenses you pay for each book, digital or otherwise, is what allows them to continue making new products, new services, new events, etc. Everyone needs their slice of the pie to continue existing and improving as they are. Start giving away stuff for free and the business will collapse which can eventually mean no more D&D. Since we all enjoy this hobby I doubt we want that. So maybe just accept businesses do what they have to and pay up.
I believe you are over playing how much the company is going to suffer if they lower their prices. If lower costs would really cause the company to fall into mayhem, they wouldn't let Amazon sell the physical core books for $34 when suggested retail is $50. (I am sure more people purchased the books from Amazon then from a brick and mortar store.)
D&D will not cease to exist simply because a business went belly up. The amount of home-brew content out there should be more then evident of this fact. Dungeons and Dragons will survive so long as people enjoy the game. Do we want proof of this? People still upkeep the AD&D Core Rules program. . . You can find adventures for the original D&D still floating around. You can find people still making classes and specialty priests for AD&D. People actively make races for 3.0/3.5. (I pretend 4.0 doesn't exist. Sorry.) Since we all enjoy this hobby, we should NOT just accept businesses do what they want to and pay up.
HOWEVER, and this is important! If you got this far without seeing red: We are able to manually enter information in books we own as home-brew content. (Can't publish it.) Paying for the digital version of a physical book in DDB is a quality of life purchase, not a necessary one. The home-brew content can be shared with players in your campaign, if I recall correctly. I think I will have to test that out, lovely excuse to snag a Master Tier sub.
DDB and the other "toolsets" "businesses that purchase the license to create and sell electronic versions of products that would be otherwise unavailable to buy" would be the only ones to lose out on profit, as people wouldn't have to buy the books a second time from them after buying the physical copy. There are people out there who have no interest in the physical copies, so digital versions of the books would still get sold. Not to mention these sites have other transactions they profit from.
Fixed that for you. So basically you want to cut the market for these businesses by some unknown percentage? Also, surely the process would have to be reciprocated - a purchase on DDB would get you a code to take to your FLGS for a free copy of the book right?
DDB and the other "toolsets" "businesses that purchase the license to create and sell electronic versions of products that would be otherwise unavailable to buy" would be the only ones to lose out on profit, as people wouldn't have to buy the books a second time from them after buying the physical copy. There are people out there who have no interest in the physical copies, so digital versions of the books would still get sold. Not to mention these sites have other transactions they profit from.
Fixed that for you. So basically you want to cut the market for these businesses by some unknown percentage? Also, surely the process would have to be reciprocated - a purchase on DDB would get you a code to take to your FLGS for a free copy of the book right?
DDB and the other "toolsets" "businesses that purchase the license to create and sell electronic versions of products that would be otherwise unavailable to buy" would be the only ones to lose out on profit, as people wouldn't have to buy the books a second time from them after buying the physical copy. There are people out there who have no interest in the physical copies, so digital versions of the books would still get sold. Not to mention these sites have other transactions they profit from.
Fixed that for you. So basically you want to cut the market for these businesses by some unknown percentage? Also, surely the process would have to be reciprocated - a purchase on DDB would get you a code to take to your FLGS for a free copy of the book right?
Again, what is it with you people and using a completely ridiculous counter argument as if it justifies your position?
So if I understand correctly people want the books heavily discounted from RRP? Guess what they already are.
DDB offers the contents of the players hand book at approximately 60% less than the RRP of the hard cover version. But that's not enough, you also want all the functionality and features of DDB at no additional cost even though it's still 40% cheaper than the RRP with these features included
As a book owner, I couldn't justify paying again for the same content in a different form.
However, if there were to be deluxe versions available for future purchases that cost a little more but also included scratch-off DNDB codes for online access I would be very tempted to switch to these, and perhaps both companies would see additional sources of revenue from people who were formerly digital-only or physical-only.
It isn’t ridiculous. The idea that people deserve shit they haven’t payed for is ridiculous.
The fact that you say that shows you don't understand or have chosen not to understand what people are asking for.
The fact that you are asking for it shows that you don’t understand how commerce works.
This website is not owned by the same company that publishes D&D. This website is more like an online bookstore that only sells digital D&D books. And they made all of these additional tools like the character builder for us to use for free with the materials we purchase.
Think of the paper books as like X-Box copies of video games, and the digital books as like PlayStation versions of the same games. This website is like Amazon, and wherever you bought your books is like GameStop. If you buy an X-Box version of a game from GameStop, would you expect Amazon to give you a free PlayStation copy of the same game?
Not to mention, the company that runs this website has to follow a specific contract with the company that publishes the game, Wizards of the Coast. They have no choice. And they worked like heck to build this website, so they deserve to get paid too.
It isn’t ridiculous. The idea that people deserve shit they haven’t payed for is ridiculous.
The fact that you say that shows you don't understand or have chosen not to understand what people are asking for.
The fact that you are asking for it shows that you don’t understand how commerce works.
This website is not owned by the same company that publishes D&D. This website is more like an online bookstore that only sells digital D&D books. And they made all of these additional tools like the character builder for us to use for free with the materials we purchase.
Think of the paper books as like X-Box copies of video games, and the digital books as like PlayStation versions of the same games. This website is like Amazon, and wherever you bought your books is like GameStop. If you buy an X-Box version of a game from GameStop, would you expect Amazon to give you a free PlayStation copy of the same game?
Not to mention, the company that runs this website has to follow a specific contract with the company that publishes the game, Wizards of the Coast. They have no choice. And they worked like heck to build this website, so they deserve to get paid too.
That analogy doesn't really fly, talk about not understanding commerce.
Sure some guy further up posted a great explanation of why "they deserve to get paid" is not a reasonable excuse. As for having no choice, that's probably true.
Okay, explain to me how that analogy is inapplicable. Go ahead, I’ll wait. And why is it that people do not deserved to get paid for their work?
2 physical things are not the same as one physical and one digital, you muddy the waters by making an analogy that's so obtuse. I'd also ask why I can only buy xbox games from gamestop and playstation games from amazon, ever so gracious of you to wait. Also doesn't take money out of anyone's pocket as digital sales don't cease to exist.
And where did I say people do not get to deserved to get paid for their work, if you honestly think I'm arguing that point I suggest intervention.
Okay, explain to me how that analogy is inapplicable. Go ahead, I’ll wait. And why is it that people do not deserved to get paid for their work?
2 physical things are not the same as one physical and one digital, you muddy the waters by making an analogy that's so obtuse. I'd also ask why I can only buy xbox games from gamestop and playstation games from amazon, ever so gracious of you to wait. Also doesn't take money out of anyone's pocket as digital sales don't cease to exist.
And where did I say people do not get to deserved to get paid for their work, if you honestly think I'm arguing that point I suggest intervention.
Actually, 2 physical things, 1 physical and 1 digital, or 2 digital - they are in fact ALL the same: they are products, that someone had to make. A someone who deserves to be paid, in full, for their work.
You can buy games from gamestop, playstation or amazon the same way - and for the same reason - that you can buy WotC books from local game stores: the store buys it, at a discount (a.k.a. "wholesale"), from WOTC. They then sell it to you for full price, with the difference being their profit.
And, understand this - because I don't think you do - Wizards and Beyond are not the same company. Beyond needs to make a profit, too. They also have to pay Wizards a licensing fee, whether they sell digital products or not.
Finally: every time you try to defend the idea of getting a digital copy for free, or even just for LESS, just because you already bought a physical copy .... that's wen you're saying people don't deserve to be paid for their work.
2 physical things are not the same as one physical and one digital, you muddy the waters by making an analogy that's so obtuse.
Okay, then how about this analogy for you then. Penguin Books publishes a book and you go to Amazon/Barnes&Nobel/anywhere you please and purchase a copy of that book. Does that automatically entitle you to a free e-reader copy of the book too from Apple/Kindle/anywhere you please? Now I have specifically used books as a metaphors, and listed several options of where to purchase including “anywhere you please.” Is that an “acute” enough analogy for ya chief?
I'd also ask why I can only buy xbox games from gamestop and playstation games from amazon, ever so gracious of you to wait.
Never said that was the case. If it makes it easier for you, then the playstation version was from GameStop and the X-Box version is from Amazon. It makes no difference to the argument. The point is purchasing to different formats of the same product from two different retailers. If you cannot understand that then there is no hope of you understanding why buying “format 1” from retailer X does not entitle you to also receive a free copy of “format 2” from retailer Y.
Also doesn't take money out of anyone's pocket as digital sales don't cease to exist.
But it does, because DDB has to pay WotC for every license they grant. So if people purchase the print version and DDB has to give out a free license to the info, then the retailer of the print copy made money, WotC made money, DDB made no money, and they still have to pay WotC for the license. So your idea quite literally means taking money out away from DDB.
In your scenario somebody pays a set sum and gets both digital version from D&D Beyond and a physical version from... somewhere - neither WotC or D&D Beyond are distributors, so this would require a physical distributor with online service like Amazon. Right?
OK.
When you buy from D&D Beyond a very large part of what you pay goes to WotC and some goes to D&D Beyond. This is usually cheaper than getting the physical book because it's digital. You can get "just the book" as a digital version of the book for $20 or can add that extra $10 to unlock features options for use with the site tools like the Character Builder. Most of the $20 goes to WotC, a little to D&D Beyond while most of that extra $10 goes to D&D Beyond. Even that full $30, is still often cheaper than the physical book which is often around $35 to $50 depending on where you buy it, despite the higher cost nothing gets unlocked in site tools. The reason it is higher is because while some of that goes to WotC, some to the retailer where you bought it and then some has to go to the company that physically made the book (Hasbro, I believe?).
That's how it currently works and why we have the prices we do. Now, your suggest is for a single purchase to include both digital and physical and to unlock site tool options? This is going to mean giving you two licenses to the content (since you access it both ways) which means WotC are either going to get paid twice in one purchase or have to take a cut and lose out on profits. You're also going to need a distributor that can stock the books and send you a copy - meaning they'll still have to be paid. The people who make the books are now going to have make a lot more copies which means higher than usual costs for them, they'll need their share to compensate. D&D Beyond are, of course, going to want their share too for providing the content, making the tools and whatnot. On top of all this bringing so many different companies together is going to put more effort in setting this up, increased online transactions (online transactions incur charges to the site to maintain it, as they are run through separate e-payment systems who want money for their services) and you'll need a few extra people to liaison between these to keep this all running smoothly) so this will be compensated -- So all in all, there's not much of a cost benefit for us - we're just getting a slight discount IF WotC agree to take a paycut - which means you'll be paying around $50 to $70 per book, to get both versions rather than just $60 to $80. It's slightly less, sure, but not enough to really justify all the set up. Especially when trying to make it for past books.
And this is all specifically for D&D beyond stuff. Don't forget that D&D Beyond aren't the only official toolset. So, if WotC start making this a proper thing for D&D Beyond, the other toolset companies are going to want to do the same. That's going to result in huge losses WotC if they agree to the paycut mentioned before. If they don't take paycuts, then the costs will end the exact same as they are now.
Personally, it seems easier for everyone to just buy the digital here for $30 and the physical from Amazon for $30. It's not that much more than it would be with a deal.
Now, they may do some special things like the did with Essentials Kit, but these are pretty much special cases working on a specific product with a specific toolset as a one off. It's a great one-off marketing stunt and benefits the customer, but is not financially sustainable for all products (hence why we're not seeing it with new releases).
Even if we just go "code for discount" - it's still somebody taking a paycut. Why should they make a decision to get less money, just because you didn't have the forethought to get the right version of the product?
-
Or were you making the suggestion we pay the $30 on here and get a free book? That'll never happen, it'll be a financial disaster. Companies put in the work, they want their money. Even WotC - the licenses you pay for each book, digital or otherwise, is what allows them to continue making new products, new services, new events, etc. Everyone needs their slice of the pie to continue existing and improving as they are. Start giving away stuff for free and the business will collapse which can eventually mean no more D&D. Since we all enjoy this hobby I doubt we want that. So maybe just accept businesses do what they have to and pay up.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Or you could just buy the digital version here and download the unlocked compendium to the free DDM app and have both the digital versions for your enjoyment all for $30.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Doing this would significantly increase the price of the books, because both WOTC's costs and DDB's costs would have to be covered, not mention the expectation both companies have for some profit. There also be would be significant costs for both companies in terms of additional staff and infrastructure needed to handle authentication, codes, shrink wrapping of books, shipping, and probably a batch of other things I'm not thinking of. If they chose to do this, we would then be hearing complaints from the folks who only want physical books or only want digital ones, because they would be forced to pay for for a service they don't want.
There would be no way to retroactively apply this to those who had purchased physical books, and it would be a significant loss for either DDB or WOTC to cover the cost of physical books for DDB purchases unless those DDB purchasers were asked to pay the difference between the "old" price and the new "physical and digital" price.
I don't agree that the only options are "homebrew everything" and "pay £600+". There are lots of options in between those two extremes.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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Make friends with someone who has a Master-tier subscription, and is willing to add you to a Campaign so that they can share their copy of the books with you. :)
This is not correct. The distributor would not require an online service for the purchase of a book to include a digital code. You would be required to either have the code on the receipt (game stores frequently do this) or include it in the book itself and sell the books wrapped. The latter would cost money. The Receipt method would not cost them anything after the initial set up and occasional trouble shooting.
(Sorry, edited the massive paragraph for readability)
First, adding a code in with the physical copy does not result in anyone getting paid twice. Nor do they take a loss on digital goods. (I am NOT saying digital goods should be free. I am saying there is no LOSS when digital goods are bundled with physical copies.) Nor will supply and demand for the books suddenly be high enough to cause a price increase by the distributor. (Hey, I could be wrong. But how many people simply use their DM's digital/physical library instead of buying their own copies?)
I don't know DDB's financial situation. I don't know how money is distributed within the company. Unless you know for sure, you shouldn't speculate or assume. They cap the online member list at 25,000. 1000 pages with 25 listings each. I promise there are more then that active most of the time. We can only speculate subscription/purchases on that limited pool. Considering they've claimed their active numbers have tripled since the pandemic... well. Yeah. I would compare DDB to AD&D Core Rules. Granted, in the way you'd compare a remote control flying airplane to a model airplane.
DDB and the other "toolsets" would be the only ones to lose out on profit, as people wouldn't have to buy the books a second time from them after buying the physical copy. There are people out there who have no interest in the physical copies, so digital versions of the books would still get sold. Not to mention these sites have other transactions they profit from.
Discounts and sales actually end in a net gain. Please do not perpetuate the misinformation that it hurts the developer/publisher/distributors to put a product on sale. Sales entice people who would otherwise not purchase the product. Getting $72 (20% off) from someone who had no interest in the product at retail price is a gain, a profit. And I have to, again, point out that digital goods do not have a production cost like physical copies do. Making less (key word) of a profit is not the same has having to hand out pay-cuts because you are taking a loss.
That last bit... not sure what you mean by having the forethought to get the right version of the product. Seems rather insulting to people who play still play around a physical table and like having books on hand when net access isn't possible.
I believe you are over playing how much the company is going to suffer if they lower their prices. If lower costs would really cause the company to fall into mayhem, they wouldn't let Amazon sell the physical core books for $34 when suggested retail is $50. (I am sure more people purchased the books from Amazon then from a brick and mortar store.)
D&D will not cease to exist simply because a business went belly up. The amount of home-brew content out there should be more then evident of this fact. Dungeons and Dragons will survive so long as people enjoy the game. Do we want proof of this? People still upkeep the AD&D Core Rules program. . . You can find adventures for the original D&D still floating around. You can find people still making classes and specialty priests for AD&D. People actively make races for 3.0/3.5. (I pretend 4.0 doesn't exist. Sorry.) Since we all enjoy this hobby, we should NOT just accept businesses do what they want to and pay up.
HOWEVER, and this is important!
If you got this far without seeing red:
We are able to manually enter information in books we own as home-brew content. (Can't publish it.) Paying for the digital version of a physical book in DDB is a quality of life purchase, not a necessary one. The home-brew content can be shared with players in your campaign, if I recall correctly. I think I will have to test that out, lovely excuse to snag a Master Tier sub.
Mod stating you can add owned physical copies via home-brew
Fixed that for you. So basically you want to cut the market for these businesses by some unknown percentage? Also, surely the process would have to be reciprocated - a purchase on DDB would get you a code to take to your FLGS for a free copy of the book right?
It had better.
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"So, what, the software developers working on D&D Beyond shouldn't be paid for their work?"
^^^ Room temperature IQ response, you know full well what he meant
Again, what is it with you people and using a completely ridiculous counter argument as if it justifies your position?
It isn’t ridiculous. The idea that people deserve shit they haven’t payed for is ridiculous.
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The fact that you say that shows you don't understand or have chosen not to understand what people are asking for.
So if I understand correctly people want the books heavily discounted from RRP? Guess what they already are.
DDB offers the contents of the players hand book at approximately 60% less than the RRP of the hard cover version. But that's not enough, you also want all the functionality and features of DDB at no additional cost even though it's still 40% cheaper than the RRP with these features included
Rather than insulting people (referring to your IQ comment) perhaps explain what you think people are asking for.
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As a book owner, I couldn't justify paying again for the same content in a different form.
However, if there were to be deluxe versions available for future purchases that cost a little more but also included scratch-off DNDB codes for online access I would be very tempted to switch to these, and perhaps both companies would see additional sources of revenue from people who were formerly digital-only or physical-only.
The fact that you are asking for it shows that you don’t understand how commerce works.
This website is not owned by the same company that publishes D&D. This website is more like an online bookstore that only sells digital D&D books. And they made all of these additional tools like the character builder for us to use for free with the materials we purchase.
Think of the paper books as like X-Box copies of video games, and the digital books as like PlayStation versions of the same games. This website is like Amazon, and wherever you bought your books is like GameStop. If you buy an X-Box version of a game from GameStop, would you expect Amazon to give you a free PlayStation copy of the same game?
Not to mention, the company that runs this website has to follow a specific contract with the company that publishes the game, Wizards of the Coast. They have no choice. And they worked like heck to build this website, so they deserve to get paid too.
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That analogy doesn't really fly, talk about not understanding commerce.
Sure some guy further up posted a great explanation of why "they deserve to get paid" is not a reasonable excuse. As for having no choice, that's probably true.
Okay, explain to me how that analogy is inapplicable. Go ahead, I’ll wait. And why is it that people do not deserved to get paid for their work?
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2 physical things are not the same as one physical and one digital, you muddy the waters by making an analogy that's so obtuse. I'd also ask why I can only buy xbox games from gamestop and playstation games from amazon, ever so gracious of you to wait. Also doesn't take money out of anyone's pocket as digital sales don't cease to exist.
And where did I say people do not get to deserved to get paid for their work, if you honestly think I'm arguing that point I suggest intervention.
Actually, 2 physical things, 1 physical and 1 digital, or 2 digital - they are in fact ALL the same: they are products, that someone had to make. A someone who deserves to be paid, in full, for their work.
You can buy games from gamestop, playstation or amazon the same way - and for the same reason - that you can buy WotC books from local game stores: the store buys it, at a discount (a.k.a. "wholesale"), from WOTC. They then sell it to you for full price, with the difference being their profit.
And, understand this - because I don't think you do - Wizards and Beyond are not the same company. Beyond needs to make a profit, too. They also have to pay Wizards a licensing fee, whether they sell digital products or not.
Finally: every time you try to defend the idea of getting a digital copy for free, or even just for LESS, just because you already bought a physical copy .... that's wen you're saying people don't deserve to be paid for their work.
Okay, then how about this analogy for you then. Penguin Books publishes a book and you go to Amazon/Barnes&Nobel/anywhere you please and purchase a copy of that book. Does that automatically entitle you to a free e-reader copy of the book too from Apple/Kindle/anywhere you please? Now I have specifically used books as a metaphors, and listed several options of where to purchase including “anywhere you please.” Is that an “acute” enough analogy for ya chief?
Never said that was the case. If it makes it easier for you, then the playstation version was from GameStop and the X-Box version is from Amazon. It makes no difference to the argument. The point is purchasing to different formats of the same product from two different retailers. If you cannot understand that then there is no hope of you understanding why buying “format 1” from retailer X does not entitle you to also receive a free copy of “format 2” from retailer Y.
But it does, because DDB has to pay WotC for every license they grant. So if people purchase the print version and DDB has to give out a free license to the info, then the retailer of the print copy made money, WotC made money, DDB made no money, and they still have to pay WotC for the license. So your idea quite literally means taking money out away from DDB.
Right here:
You even called it an “excuse” as if the idea of DDB deserving to make money by selling a product is unreasonable.
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