Yes, obviously entering the data from a new book costs time. It does not cost $30 per user time.
We have to consider the whole scenario. The resources that are made from those books is what make possible all the free tools that keep coming (like yesterday's homebrew races). Removing the WOTC part is not even that much considering we have 3 books a year.
Also we keep forgetting Curse guys are players/DMs just like us, so they are indeed in our side to provide the best deal possible, also they want this to be the best DDB tool of all time.
Yes, obviously entering the data from a new book costs time. It does not cost $30 per user time.
Also keep in mind that each book (WOTC IP license) is charged to Curse per player. Each and every time a player purchases a book, Curse incurs licensing costs from WOTC for due compensation.
Why? I would be more inclined to give my money for a subscription that, so long as I kept it gave my access to all the content. D&D 4E has an online character builder tool that functioned as such. I gave them 5.99 a month or whatever, and I could build characters using EVERYTHING in 4e. Asking someone to shell out another 300$ for books it is likely a majority of the people here already own is just, in my opinion, absurd.
Until a "Legendary" level subscription is available that allows access to all content is available, I will stick to my physical copies and PDF Character Sheets. It has been working out fine so far, and I dont see it changing.
I would like to support WotC and Curse, but right now, It not worth it to me to have to buy everything AGAIN.
Why? I would be more inclined to give my money for a subscription that, so long as I kept it gave my access to all the content. D&D 4E has an online character builder tool that functioned as such. I gave them 5.99 a month or whatever, and I could build characters using EVERYTHING in 4e. Asking someone to shell out another 300$ for books it is likely a majority of the people here already own is just, in my opinion, absurd.
Until a "Legendary" level subscription is available that allows access to all content is available, I will stick to my physical copies and PDF Character Sheets. It has been working out fine so far, and I dont see it changing.
I would like to support WotC and Curse, but right now, It not worth it to me to have to buy everything AGAIN.
That's absolutely your choice to make, no harm now foul.
At the same time, Curse would lose me and those like me as customers if they went to a subscription for content model. Back when lots of folks were advocating for that, and pointing to the 4e tools as an example, I did the math. Subscriptions at the level suggested by proponents of that model ($10-15/month) would cost me more than buying content again. I've kept my content purchases small and simple: the PHB during the founder's sale, one additional race and subclass. If, instead, the content were only available via subscription, then by now I would have paid $60-$90 as opposed to the <$25 I've paid. Even if I had purchased the three core rule books not on sale, I'd be paying more by subscription than I would have payed in one time payments by now (or shortly). And I'd have to keep on paying in order to use them. And yes, I know, that kind of subscription would presumably involved all published content, but that presumes I need all that content. Even if a subscriber planned to use all the content, eventually the subscription is more expensive than one time purchases of content.
Curse looked at the options and decided the pay for content model (plus subscriptions for some added benefits) was a better option for them and for their hoped for customer base. I am thankful for that decision. It would appear that a lot of other folks agree, because every indication is that DDB has done better than anticipated. But their model isn't going to appeal to or work for everyone who plays D&D and wants digital options.
Yes, in the long run you would pay for the products, and then some, but you would be effectivly donating if you will, to support the program, and get access to all future content. Some people, like myself, would be more willing to do this, then just drop hundreds of dollars for books I already physically own. I would pay say, 10$ a month for the convienence of this digital product and access to all the content for as long as I needed.
Having a subscription base for content, and an outright purchase of content both seem more then reasonable. If X person wants to just buy these 3 digital books for use with the tool and nothing else, wonderful. If Y person wants to pay 10$ a month for everything, which long run would equal buying them, but also allow for continued support of curse/wotc, that seems fine also.
I dont see why they could not do both, then both sides win.
Person X has no reason to be upset that person Y is paying arbitrary amount a month and getting everything person X bought, becuase they were clearly willing to just buy them anyways and cherry pick. Likewise person Y has no reason to be upset that in order to get digital products they already paid full price for physical copies, they have to do it again, they can just get a monthly subscription for access to the products for as long as they choose.
This is very upsetting! I have every book ever released for 5e and I might seem old fashioned, but to me the physical books remain my favourite way to consult the content. If there would be a way to unlock content appart from buying it a second time, it would be much more appealing. Even a monthly subscription could be a great and easy fix. This only makes me search for other sources of electronic content and does not incite me to buy further products.
I have every book released for 5e and most of the books again on DDB. IMHO not upsetting at all, it's business. Two different companies, two different products. Do you get a discount if you want to buy a 2nd copy of the PHB from Amazon or FLGS? Why would you get a free digital copy just because you bought a physical book? Was there some sort of note/promise/option that said you should get it for free when you purchased said book? You do realize DDB is owned by Curse and not Hasbro/WOTC right? Read the link in my signature. it may help explain things. BTW, if you just want a digital copy of the book, it would only cost you an additional $20 for the source books (ie: not adventures).
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Yes, obviously entering the data from a new book costs time. It does not cost $30 per user time.
Also keep in mind that each book (WOTC IP license) is charged to Curse per player. Each and every time a player purchases a book, Curse incurs licensing costs from WOTC for due compensation.
to piggy back on that, along with all that data input there is the cost of making improvements and maintaining the site. To do that you have to keep people on payroll. Kinda hard to keep a quality product if you keep laying off people and trying to bring them back. as for licensing, i am under the belief it is between $10 and $15 a book. so there is that.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Yes, in the long run you would pay for the products, and then some, but you would be effectivly donating if you will, to support the program, and get access to all future content. Some people, like myself, would be more willing to do this, then just drop hundreds of dollars for books I already physically own. I would pay say, 10$ a month for the convienence of this digital product and access to all the content for as long as I needed.
Having a subscription base for content, and an outright purchase of content both seem more then reasonable. If X person wants to just buy these 3 digital books for use with the tool and nothing else, wonderful. If Y person wants to pay 10$ a month for everything, which long run would equal buying them, but also allow for continued support of curse/wotc, that seems fine also.
I dont see why they could not do both, then both sides win.
Person X has no reason to be upset that person Y is paying arbitrary amount a month and getting everything person X bought, becuase they were clearly willing to just buy them anyways and cherry pick. Likewise person Y has no reason to be upset that in order to get digital products they already paid full price for physical copies, they have to do it again, they can just get a monthly subscription for access to the products for as long as they choose.
So you want to pay $120 a year for over $300 in value worth of books that will just increase over time as new product is released? At what point does the losses become too much and DDB has to shutdown or WOTC stops the license agreement as it is not cost effective for them.
Maybe we are not communicating on the same level, and I am unsure of how much you know so please allow me to start from the beginning. Also, I highly suggest you read the first post in my signature.
DDB is not owned or run by Hasbro/WOTC. It is owned by Curse, which is a Twitch company owned by Amazon
DDB has to pay a licensing fee to WOTC for each and every book.
WOTC has a lot of say in price points so they can't just run a sale whenever they feel like it.
WOTC is a Publisher, not a retailer. They only sell to retail outlets, you as a consumer are unable to purchase directly from WOTC. You however have the option to purchase physical copies where ever they are sold at whatever price point is offered (ie: Amazon sells for $30 USD while FLGS sells it for $50 USD)
You have the option of buying just the Digital source book from DDB for $19.99 (see the Compendium Content Only option). You are still locked to only using it on DDB and you don't get to use it within the toolsets and character creator. Thus the break down is $19.99 for the digital book (includes licenses to WOTC), $10 for the tool set (Curse add on).
The digital version on DDB is superior to any PDF as it gets updated and cross-linked. If you buy the toolset you also get searchable content.
Also, we all need to get over 4e. it is over and gone. WOTC has decided to move away from that platform as it was not cost effective for them. 4e almost shuttered D&D.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I dont buy into the whole "These pixels cost X Money" thing. They are pixels, it costs nothing but the inital cost of production, after that its the push of a button to duplicate them an unlimited amount of times, ergo creating an infinite source of income. It`s not like outside of the time it took to put it together, your losing any other resource. No book costs, shipping costs, etc etc. Its just a button click. Period. In addition, with their price point being lower then a physical book, probably because they can do that, since again, pixels, and the rate WotC puts out product, it will pay for itself long before its outpaced by product. They are not putting stuff out at an alarming rate. The pattern has been around 1-2 books a year, digitally at 30$ a book. Im paying, lets assume the 10$ a month at 120$ a year, so iv already paid double what 2 books"worth" in a years time. You could even charge 15$ a month, bringing it to 180$.
Either way they are gaining money. It`s in no way a loss to "loan" this digital content, it`s a library im paying for. They dont risk losing a physical book.
Bottom line is that subscription plans work, especially for digital products that once the production cost of said product is paid for is nothing but profit because they dont stand to lose any physical property that they would have to reproduce to make up for the loss in this loaning service. If subscriptions didnt work, the hundreds of companys who do it, offering loads of content for the subscription, would not be in business.
In regards to 4e almost shuttering them, thats because it was bad.
Storage costs money, access costs money, employee's cost money, utilities cost money, etc. So while you may not buy into "pixels cost x money" thing, never the less, DDB needs to make money to pay for all that. Plus with a physical book, all the hard work has been doing doing the layout and sending to the printer. Now all they have to do is sit back and let it print, ship, and sell and I am sure that someone else handles all of those last things, not WOTC.
In your subscription model, if you only want whats going forward that's fine, but you also want access to everything that already exists. $10 a month won't cover that till at least year 3 if not 4, and by then there will be more books out so we are now talking year 4 for sure going into year 5 before it pays off. By then WOTC could be asking more for licenses as the shift from physical to digital occurs.
In some instances, yes, subscriptions work. Could Curse have went that route? sure, but they decided not to, plain and simple probably based on a very simple formula. each person costs them X amount in licenses fees for every book. How long would it take to recoup that costs since they have to give WOTC their costs upfront. Now they are in the hole. Currently, there are 16 titles in the library. Lets just say for sake of easiness, the license is averaged to $10 a book. so they won't recoup costs till year two for each and every subscription. Imagine 1000 people sign up just to test it out and cancel within the first 6 months. That's $160,000 out of pocket and only $60,000 coming back in. No extra money to pay the bills either. WOTC already has their money and Curse is out. Depending on the license fee, it could be non-transferable, non-refundable. If so, what that equals is broke and out of business real quick. Option two: have everyone buy the titles and pay for the license fee, Curse makes their portion and can keep paying people and develop for a better product.
I don't see the issue here with how it is setup. Can you please give an example of your working Subscription where it is a similar setup of a company selling a service based on someone else product like the relationship between WOTC and Curse?
What you are really saying is that you are against anyone making money in a fair market value economy. It's a business. At the end of the day they are in the business of selling a service tied to someone else's product to make money. I am sure there is also a lot of love for the game and they want to make it better, but if they can't make a profit, there will be no digital at all. Sorry you feel it's not worth it to you, but I and many others do think it is.
It would be great if we could submit an Amazon receipt or something that shows that we've bought the book(s) and get access to the content on D&D Beyond.
Public Mod Note(Stormknight): New post titled "Physical Players guide Ownership should unlock content on DnD Beyond." merged into this existing discussion. Please read the start of this thread.
I have the Book form of the DnD Players Guide, Monsters Guide and Dungeon Masters Guide, shouldn't this unlock the players content on this website. I have purchased the offical items.
Public Mod Note
(Stormknight):
New post titled "Physical Players guide Ownership should unlock content on DnD Beyond." merged into this existing discussion. Please read the start of this thread.
How do we know that WotC make so much money that they could just give things away?
It might be that to get the money to continue to update DnD they have to get more money and this is the way.
Or they might have to double the price on the physical books to be on the plus side.
I know for myself that after i bought my books i can use them forever if nedded, and not give WotC anymore of my money.
But i still want them to evolve and make more things.
As for me i love DnD Beyond and what i think it will become, so i feel ok to contribute some money to the pasttime i love and support DnD Beyond and WotC.
That on the other hand is my choice. If you dont feel you want that or you are ok with your physical book its ok too.
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I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
OK, so what if Burger King decided to start charging $8 for a Whopper? Would you say that's a bad deal?
Yes - just like I would consider it a bad deal for WotC to start trying to sell D&D books for $99.90 instead of the $49.95 they currently do. There is such a thing as fair market value; it's not unreasonable for a fast food joint to ask a $4 price for a burger because that's a competitive price for burger of that quality, just as it's not unreasonable for a game publisher to ask a $50 price for their game book because that's a competitive price for a full-color art-laden game book of that quality - but if either start asking significantly more, they are no longer competitive prices, and no longer reasonable either.
OK then, say it's a different fast food chain; a brand new one. Burger Queen. They open up with $8 burgers not significantly different from any other fast food burger. You'd probably be thinking "that's more expensive than a Whopper" and not "that's way cheaper than what I can get at a restaurant!"
Book Conveniences
I'm curious what those are, and how they aren't completely out-weighed by what I know digital conveniences to be.
I listed some of them in that post. Namely, access without power/internet, ability to loan freely, the tactile sensation of flipping pages, etc. As I also explained in that post, arguing which outweigh the others is purely subjective. You're clearly on the digital side--hell, I am too. But I'm just saying the book provides things that DDB doesn't.
Who would not be getting paid? Both Curse and WotC would be making money off of this. If I chose to go the DDB route, then WotC would be making $0 off me. If I go the book route, Curse makes $0. If they offered a package deal, they'd both be making money...
The situation as is is actually more that if you choose to go the DDB route, Curse makes enough money to pay their employees, keep their business prospering, and pay their licensing fees to WotC, so WotC makes more than $0 off your DDB purchase. Which is why when you said that the book plus the DDB stuff together should be cheaper than it already is, I was talking about that meaning an inherent decrease in the amount of money that would be felt somewhere - such as in Curse not prospering as well, or not being able to afford as many or as competent staff.
But it's still more money going to one or the other. I would still be paying $50 (or whatever) as opposed to only $30. I doubt either of us is privy to such financial specifics as to be able to argue about the details of who gets what percentage, or how much of an impact it has. Yeah WotC makes money indirectly off of DDB purchases, but that plus a book sale (even at a reduced price) is more than just that alone.
It's not a sale..
It literally is a sale. Also, are you familiar with the term MSRP?
It's not though. A sale is when you temporarily lower a price in order to attract new customers. Amazon's price point is more or less stable, but they themselves have sales off of that already low price, via either price drops or coupons. Even at its highest it's never (to my knowledge) been $50.
Yes I am familiar with MSRP. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Stores are under no obligation to follow that suggestion.
Ok, so lets say that you can get the physical book from Amazon at $30, and the digital book here for $20, would that work for you? I mean, it does add up to the cost of what it would be for the Physical if you were to buy it at retail price after all.
Yeah I think that would be a pretty decent deal.
Then fantastic, do I have a deal for you! When you look at the digital book here on DDB, Find the book you want (seems to be only on source books, not adventure's which kinda makes sense) go to pricing options and scroll down to the "Compendium Content Only" section and purchase that. For the main 3 and at least XGtE, it is only $19.99. This is a digital copy of the book and covers licensing fee to WOTC. It will be an exact usefullness of the physical book in your hands.
Purchasing this bundle unlocks the Xanathar's Guide to Everything book in digital format in the game compendium with all the artwork and maps, cross-linking, and tooltips.
The Compendium Content bundle does not grant access to all the content’s options in the rest of the toolset, such as the searchable listings, character builder, or digital sheet.
All those extra features of being able to use it for character creation and such is the added value by Curse, and if you want that, you would have to pay for it. Plus, i still think you getting way more than what a PDF would give you with the cross linking and tool tips.
Also as for the cost of a PDF vs DDB. yes, a PDF is mainly once and done. maybe go back and fix a few things. but you miss out on a lot of features that DDB has put in. Cross-linking, tool-tips, searchable listings (though i can search within a PDF as well but only that one PDF), character creation, campaign management, legal content sharing (I would assume that sharing your PDF would be a no-no and violation of the terms of use). All of this is continuously updated and content added. Your PDF will not have that.
I'll have to look into that, but my initial reaction is that it sort of defeats the purpose. You lose the benefits of the DDB system (character builder and such), and also some of the benefits of owning a physical copy (namely getting to keep it if DDB shuts down, offline access, etc.).
I'm not sure if the PDF stuff was directed towards me or another poster, but I'm not advocating for that idea. PDF's seem convenient, but obviously piracy would be trivial and you can't access it without electronics. I'd download them if they were offered, sure, but I don't see how or why that would ever come about so I've never campaigned for it.
It would be great if we could submit an Amazon receipt or something that shows that we've bought the book(s) and get access to the content on D&D Beyond.
I have the Book form of the DnD Players Guide, Monsters Guide and Dungeon Masters Guide, shouldn't this unlock the players content on this website. I have purchased the offical items.
If this site were totally owned and operated by WotC, that might have been an option (difficulty in proving ownership notwithstanding). But Curse can't just work for free.
I think there is room for compromise, like bundle deals, but whether or not they want to engage in something like that would be up to them.
I'll have to look into that, but my initial reaction is that it sort of defeats the purpose. You lose the benefits of the DDB system (character builder and such), and also some of the benefits of owning a physical copy (namely getting to keep it if DDB shuts down, offline access, etc.).
Yes, yes it would defeat the benefit of using the DDB system, I am simply showing you that if you wanted just a digital copy of the book, same usefulness as the one you can hold in your hands, there is that option. Now if you want to use all the cool tools that the Curse team has developed, then there is going to be charge for that as they are not doing it for free. So now my question for you is the extra $10 worth it to have all that integrated into the character creation & searchable content? because your physical book sure can't do that either.
As for the benefits of the physical copies, sure, you could lose it, it could get stolen, get damaged. You would have to buy a 2nd copy and no discount either. I agree it's a risk buying into DDB and it took me awhile as well, but I don't think DDB will be failing anytime soon.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I think there is room for compromise, like bundle deals, but whether or not they want to engage in something like that would be up to them.
Legendary Bundle. it would be the way to go. I wish there were two bundles. a source book bundle and an adventure bundle, but oh well. At least when you buy separate books, it reduces the cost of the legendary bundle so it is always an option to pick it up.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
It's not though. A sale is when you temporarily lower a price in order to attract new customers.[/quote]
It's a semantic argument, I know, but a sale is during which a retailer sells goods at reduced prices - which is how Amazon's pricing is literally a sale; it's just that their period for that sell is "until we decide to change the price to something else." and even then, that's just another sale unless they choose to have the price be the MSRP (which is the minimum price necessary to not be considered "at reduced prices").
Yes I am familiar with MSRP. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Stores are under no obligation to follow that suggestion.
It's not about being obligated to follow that suggested price; it's about that being the suggested price for a reason.
It's not though. A sale is when you temporarily lower a price in order to attract new customers.[/quote]
It's a semantic argument, I know, but a sale is during which a retailer sells goods at reduced prices - which is how Amazon's pricing is literally a sale; it's just that their period for that sell is "until we decide to change the price to something else." and even then, that's just another sale unless they choose to have the price be the MSRP (which is the minimum price necessary to not be considered "at reduced prices").
I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't literally a sale. But treating it like it's a sale on a practical level is letting yourself be taken advantage of as a consumer.
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And I cast Heroism on the community.
Q:19
Why?
I would be more inclined to give my money for a subscription that, so long as I kept it gave my access to all the content. D&D 4E has an online character builder tool that functioned as such. I gave them 5.99 a month or whatever, and I could build characters using EVERYTHING in 4e. Asking someone to shell out another 300$ for books it is likely a majority of the people here already own is just, in my opinion, absurd.
Until a "Legendary" level subscription is available that allows access to all content is available, I will stick to my physical copies and PDF Character Sheets. It has been working out fine so far, and I dont see it changing.
I would like to support WotC and Curse, but right now, It not worth it to me to have to buy everything AGAIN.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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Yes, in the long run you would pay for the products, and then some, but you would be effectivly donating if you will, to support the program, and get access to all future content. Some people, like myself, would be more willing to do this, then just drop hundreds of dollars for books I already physically own. I would pay say, 10$ a month for the convienence of this digital product and access to all the content for as long as I needed.
Having a subscription base for content, and an outright purchase of content both seem more then reasonable. If X person wants to just buy these 3 digital books for use with the tool and nothing else, wonderful. If Y person wants to pay 10$ a month for everything, which long run would equal buying them, but also allow for continued support of curse/wotc, that seems fine also.
I dont see why they could not do both, then both sides win.
Person X has no reason to be upset that person Y is paying arbitrary amount a month and getting everything person X bought, becuase they were clearly willing to just buy them anyways and cherry pick. Likewise person Y has no reason to be upset that in order to get digital products they already paid full price for physical copies, they have to do it again, they can just get a monthly subscription for access to the products for as long as they choose.
Read the link in my signature. it may help explain things.
BTW, if you just want a digital copy of the book, it would only cost you an additional $20 for the source books (ie: not adventures).
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Also, we all need to get over 4e. it is over and gone. WOTC has decided to move away from that platform as it was not cost effective for them. 4e almost shuttered D&D.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I dont buy into the whole "These pixels cost X Money" thing. They are pixels, it costs nothing but the inital cost of production, after that its the push of a button to duplicate them an unlimited amount of times, ergo creating an infinite source of income. It`s not like outside of the time it took to put it together, your losing any other resource. No book costs, shipping costs, etc etc. Its just a button click. Period. In addition, with their price point being lower then a physical book, probably because they can do that, since again, pixels, and the rate WotC puts out product, it will pay for itself long before its outpaced by product. They are not putting stuff out at an alarming rate. The pattern has been around 1-2 books a year, digitally at 30$ a book. Im paying, lets assume the 10$ a month at 120$ a year, so iv already paid double what 2 books"worth" in a years time. You could even charge 15$ a month, bringing it to 180$.
Either way they are gaining money. It`s in no way a loss to "loan" this digital content, it`s a library im paying for. They dont risk losing a physical book.
Bottom line is that subscription plans work, especially for digital products that once the production cost of said product is paid for is nothing but profit because they dont stand to lose any physical property that they would have to reproduce to make up for the loss in this loaning service. If subscriptions didnt work, the hundreds of companys who do it, offering loads of content for the subscription, would not be in business.
In regards to 4e almost shuttering them, thats because it was bad.
5e, not bad, doing fine in fact.
Storage costs money, access costs money, employee's cost money, utilities cost money, etc. So while you may not buy into "pixels cost x money" thing, never the less, DDB needs to make money to pay for all that. Plus with a physical book, all the hard work has been doing doing the layout and sending to the printer. Now all they have to do is sit back and let it print, ship, and sell and I am sure that someone else handles all of those last things, not WOTC.
In your subscription model, if you only want whats going forward that's fine, but you also want access to everything that already exists. $10 a month won't cover that till at least year 3 if not 4, and by then there will be more books out so we are now talking year 4 for sure going into year 5 before it pays off. By then WOTC could be asking more for licenses as the shift from physical to digital occurs.
In some instances, yes, subscriptions work. Could Curse have went that route? sure, but they decided not to, plain and simple probably based on a very simple formula. each person costs them X amount in licenses fees for every book. How long would it take to recoup that costs since they have to give WOTC their costs upfront. Now they are in the hole. Currently, there are 16 titles in the library. Lets just say for sake of easiness, the license is averaged to $10 a book. so they won't recoup costs till year two for each and every subscription. Imagine 1000 people sign up just to test it out and cancel within the first 6 months. That's $160,000 out of pocket and only $60,000 coming back in. No extra money to pay the bills either. WOTC already has their money and Curse is out. Depending on the license fee, it could be non-transferable, non-refundable. If so, what that equals is broke and out of business real quick. Option two: have everyone buy the titles and pay for the license fee, Curse makes their portion and can keep paying people and develop for a better product.
I don't see the issue here with how it is setup. Can you please give an example of your working Subscription where it is a similar setup of a company selling a service based on someone else product like the relationship between WOTC and Curse?
What you are really saying is that you are against anyone making money in a fair market value economy. It's a business. At the end of the day they are in the business of selling a service tied to someone else's product to make money. I am sure there is also a lot of love for the game and they want to make it better, but if they can't make a profit, there will be no digital at all. Sorry you feel it's not worth it to you, but I and many others do think it is.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
It would be great if we could submit an Amazon receipt or something that shows that we've bought the book(s) and get access to the content on D&D Beyond.
I have the Book form of the DnD Players Guide, Monsters Guide and Dungeon Masters Guide, shouldn't this unlock the players content on this website. I have purchased the offical items.
How do we know that WotC make so much money that they could just give things away?
It might be that to get the money to continue to update DnD they have to get more money and this is the way.
Or they might have to double the price on the physical books to be on the plus side.
I know for myself that after i bought my books i can use them forever if nedded, and not give WotC anymore of my money.
But i still want them to evolve and make more things.
As for me i love DnD Beyond and what i think it will become, so i feel ok to contribute some money to the pasttime i love and support DnD Beyond and WotC.
That on the other hand is my choice. If you dont feel you want that or you are ok with your physical book its ok too.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
OK then, say it's a different fast food chain; a brand new one. Burger Queen. They open up with $8 burgers not significantly different from any other fast food burger. You'd probably be thinking "that's more expensive than a Whopper" and not "that's way cheaper than what I can get at a restaurant!"
I listed some of them in that post. Namely, access without power/internet, ability to loan freely, the tactile sensation of flipping pages, etc. As I also explained in that post, arguing which outweigh the others is purely subjective. You're clearly on the digital side--hell, I am too. But I'm just saying the book provides things that DDB doesn't.
But it's still more money going to one or the other. I would still be paying $50 (or whatever) as opposed to only $30. I doubt either of us is privy to such financial specifics as to be able to argue about the details of who gets what percentage, or how much of an impact it has. Yeah WotC makes money indirectly off of DDB purchases, but that plus a book sale (even at a reduced price) is more than just that alone.
It's not though. A sale is when you temporarily lower a price in order to attract new customers. Amazon's price point is more or less stable, but they themselves have sales off of that already low price, via either price drops or coupons. Even at its highest it's never (to my knowledge) been $50.
Yes I am familiar with MSRP. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Stores are under no obligation to follow that suggestion.
Yes, yes it would defeat the benefit of using the DDB system, I am simply showing you that if you wanted just a digital copy of the book, same usefulness as the one you can hold in your hands, there is that option. Now if you want to use all the cool tools that the Curse team has developed, then there is going to be charge for that as they are not doing it for free. So now my question for you is the extra $10 worth it to have all that integrated into the character creation & searchable content? because your physical book sure can't do that either.
As for the benefits of the physical copies, sure, you could lose it, it could get stolen, get damaged. You would have to buy a 2nd copy and no discount either. I agree it's a risk buying into DDB and it took me awhile as well, but I don't think DDB will be failing anytime soon.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Legendary Bundle. it would be the way to go. I wish there were two bundles. a source book bundle and an adventure bundle, but oh well. At least when you buy separate books, it reduces the cost of the legendary bundle so it is always an option to pick it up.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
It's a semantic argument, I know, but a sale is during which a retailer sells goods at reduced prices - which is how Amazon's pricing is literally a sale; it's just that their period for that sell is "until we decide to change the price to something else." and even then, that's just another sale unless they choose to have the price be the MSRP (which is the minimum price necessary to not be considered "at reduced prices").
It's not about being obligated to follow that suggested price; it's about that being the suggested price for a reason.I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't literally a sale. But treating it like it's a sale on a practical level is letting yourself be taken advantage of as a consumer.