So to clarify, let's say I don't buy any of the "Digital Sourcebooks" since...you know...they'll be sitting next to my computer in the form of a dead tree that I've already purchased, and I get a Master tier subscription. What do I get with that subscription? will I still have access to spells, monsters, and the compendium? Or, is that content unlocked with the purchase of digital sourcebooks?
To ask it another way, on August 15, if I subscribe to DND beyond, but have not yet bought any of the sourcebooks… What do I get?
I'll reiterate the sentiment that there is little reason to purchase digital copies if you already own physical books. Which we nearly all so because it was the only option until now. I'd be much more willing to buy digital content if the cost wasn't 75% or more of the physical price.
If curse wants more digital purchases from people who already own the books, the price should be a smaller percentage of the physical price.
If wizards wants to preserve physical purchases on future books, the digital price should be a smaller percentage of the physical price.
The best option for both would be a discount based on owning a physical book, but I agree that likely isn't retroactively feasible.
Best, feasible, and dare I say "fair" option would be to lower the price on the three core books ($10-15) and charge their proffered $30 for all others (SCAG, Volo's, Xanathar's) going forward. This way they could set a nice bar for both hardcopy book owners and non-book owners and make a reasonable profit on supplements and subscriptions going forward.
So to clarify, let's say I don't buy any of the "Digital Sourcebooks" since...you know...they'll be sitting next to my computer in the form of a dead tree that I've already purchased, and I get a Master tier subscription. What do I get with that subscription? will I still have access to spells, monsters, and the compendium? Or, is that content unlocked with the purchase of digital sourcebooks?
To ask it another way, on August 15, if I subscribe to DND beyond, but have not yet bought any of the sourcebooks… What do I get?
BadEye answered that in the first post of this thread:
The Hero Tier at $2.99/ month is intended primarily for players. It removes ads on the site, allows players to create an unlimited number of characters, and add publicly-shared homebrew content to your collection to use within the toolset.
The Master Tier at $5.99/ month is intended primarily for Dungeon Masters and full groups. It grants all the benefits of the Hero Tier, and also allows a DM to share all her unlocked official content with other players within a campaign - so content does not have to be unlocked by every player.
Purchasing the Master Tier, without having purchased any additional content would seem a poor choice, as you have nothing to share.
So to clarify, let's say I don't buy any of the "Digital Sourcebooks" since...you know...they'll be sitting next to my computer in the form of a dead tree that I've already purchased, and I get a Master tier subscription. What do I get with that subscription? will I still have access to spells, monsters, and the compendium? Or, is that content unlocked with the purchase of digital sourcebooks?
To ask it another way, on August 15, if I subscribe to DND beyond, but have not yet bought any of the sourcebooks… What do I get?
I think that you get access to the Basic Rules, the ability to create an unlimited number of characters, to build (via private homebrew) the classes/races/backgrounds you want for those characters, and the ability to use Public Homebrew.
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Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid,Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions! I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
you should get a discount for owning the books, if there's not that, I'm out.
WotC has yet to figure out how to know if you actually DO own the books or not... Without a digital option, short of keeping your receipt until the end of time for buying the core books there's no way to convincingly prove you own them.
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David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter) President, Darklight Interactive
I'll never quite understand how people come to believe that a digital version of a game book should be a low percentage of the price for the physical version of the game book.
I mean, I understand that there is a difference in cost to create the product in regards to physical materials not actually needed for the digital version - but does no one else consider what a digital version has that the physical version doesn't? There are a lot of perks to a digital version - even more so with the D&D Beyond digital version since it isn't just the same book, but also integrated into a tools - that make it a lot more convenient.
Yet, it seems like entertainment is the only place where convenience is not granted any leeway by the general customer to have its own cost. No one bats an eye at paying more for fuel at a station on their route home from work. No one calls the price "insane" when it costs more to grab a gallon of milk at the fuel station's convenience store than it does at an actual grocery store. But tell somebody that maybe, just maybe, all the cool bits and bobs of a digital gaming book make it worth most of what the physical book costs? People loose their minds.
WotC has yet to figure out how to know if you actually DO own the books or not... Without a digital option, short of keeping your receipt until the end of time for buying the core books there's no way to convincingly prove you own them.
LOL I actually have most if not all my receipts LOL. Some OCD part of me has made me tape them inside the front covers of my books and I don't know why. :)
It makes no sense to expect to get a discount on a DVD because you own the VHS. The content may be the same, but you are in fact buying two separate products.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
For those of you stating that Curse creating an all inclusive "$X/month" level won't work because of offline mode... In this day and age, how easy do you think that actually is? Unless I have an expensive device that I can keep offline permanently and use solely for this purpose, I'm pretty much always online and it's pretty much unavoidable. The second I get online, either accidentally or willingly, and the app phones home that content's gone unless I maintain my subscription. It's as simple as that.
And if you think buying a $300 device to host this content offline just because you can't afford $10/month is a cost-effective idea... well... I really can't help you.
The problem is that WotC still lives in the stone age, and they have been historically incapable of understanding what I just described. For those of you that think that Curse came up with this pricing model, I can almost guarantee you without any hesitation that that's not the case... WotC is in full control of how this prices out.
Seriously, if this product was priced at $10/month for all-inclusive access to all the core books (and only the core books), WotC and Curse would be making money by the crapload.
I keep seeing people explain that they have to charge for their work. I see other people explain that they already paid for the content.
What I am not seeing is some recognition that the target market for DnD Beyond has, almost without exception, purchased at least the basic content. This isn't about proving you bought a book. WotC knows you bought a book. Only a very tiny number of people are in the market for a Char Builder, but don't play DnD with a book. The whole point of this exercise is to sell people another product.
The question is how much is the product they are offering worth and how many people can pay for it?
I'll never quite understand how people come to believe that a digital version of a game book should be a low percentage of the price for the physical version of the game book.
I mean, I understand that there is a difference in cost to create the product in regards to physical materials not actually needed for the digital version - but does no one else consider what a digital version has that the physical version doesn't? There are a lot of perks to a digital version - even more so with the D&D Beyond digital version since it isn't just the same book, but also integrated into a tools - that make it a lot more convenient.
Yet, it seems like entertainment is the only place where convenience is not granted any leeway by the general customer to have its own cost. No one bats an eye at paying more for fuel at a station on their route home from work. No one calls the price "insane" when it costs more to grab a gallon of milk at the fuel station's convenience store than it does at an actual grocery store. But tell somebody that maybe, just maybe, all the cool bits and bobs of a digital gaming book make it worth most of what the physical book costs? People loose their minds.
I think it comes down to the fact that, once the digital content is created, the costs of reproduction are negligible (i.e., don't have to print each new copy. digital copying is very cheap obviously). This is of course far more true of a pdf than a DDB 'book', because the latter requires maintenance costs.
But, as you say, the price of something is not only determined by the cost to produce it. The price is determined by what we are willing to pay for it. The production costs simply define the absolute lower limit.
In other words, is it worth it to me to pay $20 or $30 for DDB content? Probably. Because there is absolutely no way that I could have developed the DDB system on my own. And there's no way that I have time to enter the data myself. AND the tools are pretty frickin useful (in my opinion) and will save me a lot of time at the table.
Curse put in a bunch of money and time upfront to create this system. A bunch of money and time upfront to enter data into it. To bug correct. To adjust features based on community feedback.
Now they need to recoup those costs. So, they should charge the amount that maximize this: (# of people who will buy at that price)*(price)
Simple as that. And if it's not worth it to me. I wont' buy it. If enough people feel that way, they'll have to lower their prices or give up on the business.
In my case, the prices are high enough, I probably wont' get many adventures unless my group is jonesing to play a given adventure and I really, really think that it will make it a lot easier for me to run than simply using the book. I'm more in it for the character generation and eventually tracking.
I paid for the intellectual property contained in the Players Hand Book, not the form in which it came.
No. For real you actually paid for that physical book, not a license to all forms of its existence. If you were lied to by your local game store or Amazon into believing otherwise, your beef is with them—not WotC or Curse.
It really is like buying PS4 version of a game instead of Xbox or PC. You have to buy it on each platform. That business model has nearly two decades of evolution behind it. It's legit. It's solid. Welcome to the 21st century. Sadly the flying cars and hover boards you were expecting aren't here either.
I just wanted to also ask, because have been talking about the purchase of books, the character builder, all that. Will the Campaign Tracking, the Virtual Tabletop, and any other Builders/Randomizers be included in the pricing shown here, or will there be additional add on prices for those services?
Checking out as thread is becoming toxic, and i feel i had a hand in it so sorry about that.
final remarks on it, i like the pricing model, and personally can't wait! I hope it develops more and things become clearer for all, and have the confidence it will.
So to clarify, let's say I don't buy any of the "Digital Sourcebooks" since...you know...they'll be sitting next to my computer in the form of a dead tree that I've already purchased, and I get a Master tier subscription. What do I get with that subscription? will I still have access to spells, monsters, and the compendium? Or, is that content unlocked with the purchase of digital sourcebooks?
To ask it another way, on August 15, if I subscribe to DND beyond, but have not yet bought any of the sourcebooks… What do I get?
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D&D Beyond FoundersPun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid, Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck
Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions!
I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter)
President, Darklight Interactive
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"
I'll never quite understand how people come to believe that a digital version of a game book should be a low percentage of the price for the physical version of the game book.
I mean, I understand that there is a difference in cost to create the product in regards to physical materials not actually needed for the digital version - but does no one else consider what a digital version has that the physical version doesn't? There are a lot of perks to a digital version - even more so with the D&D Beyond digital version since it isn't just the same book, but also integrated into a tools - that make it a lot more convenient.
Yet, it seems like entertainment is the only place where convenience is not granted any leeway by the general customer to have its own cost. No one bats an eye at paying more for fuel at a station on their route home from work. No one calls the price "insane" when it costs more to grab a gallon of milk at the fuel station's convenience store than it does at an actual grocery store. But tell somebody that maybe, just maybe, all the cool bits and bobs of a digital gaming book make it worth most of what the physical book costs? People loose their minds.
So, what happens to homebrew that someone shared and I'm using when they stop paying?
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ModeratorIt makes no sense to expect to get a discount on a DVD because you own the VHS. The content may be the same, but you are in fact buying two separate products.
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For those of you stating that Curse creating an all inclusive "$X/month" level won't work because of offline mode... In this day and age, how easy do you think that actually is? Unless I have an expensive device that I can keep offline permanently and use solely for this purpose, I'm pretty much always online and it's pretty much unavoidable. The second I get online, either accidentally or willingly, and the app phones home that content's gone unless I maintain my subscription. It's as simple as that.
And if you think buying a $300 device to host this content offline just because you can't afford $10/month is a cost-effective idea... well... I really can't help you.
The problem is that WotC still lives in the stone age, and they have been historically incapable of understanding what I just described. For those of you that think that Curse came up with this pricing model, I can almost guarantee you without any hesitation that that's not the case... WotC is in full control of how this prices out.
Seriously, if this product was priced at $10/month for all-inclusive access to all the core books (and only the core books), WotC and Curse would be making money by the crapload.
This pricing model is what doomed Trapdoor and Dungeonscape, but that's a whole other story...
David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter)
President, Darklight Interactive
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"
I keep seeing people explain that they have to charge for their work. I see other people explain that they already paid for the content.
What I am not seeing is some recognition that the target market for DnD Beyond has, almost without exception, purchased at least the basic content. This isn't about proving you bought a book. WotC knows you bought a book. Only a very tiny number of people are in the market for a Char Builder, but don't play DnD with a book. The whole point of this exercise is to sell people another product.
The question is how much is the product they are offering worth and how many people can pay for it?
I just wanted to also ask, because have been talking about the purchase of books, the character builder, all that. Will the Campaign Tracking, the Virtual Tabletop, and any other Builders/Randomizers be included in the pricing shown here, or will there be additional add on prices for those services?
Thanks,
Checking out as thread is becoming toxic, and i feel i had a hand in it so sorry about that.
final remarks on it, i like the pricing model, and personally can't wait! I hope it develops more and things become clearer for all, and have the confidence it will.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
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D&D Beyond FoundersPun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊