So me and a friend had a small argument about the component pouch and arcane focus. That if you have an arcane focus, you can pull off any spell within your available list without any of the components needed whatsoever. Would you still need some of the required material even if you have the arcane focus?
What filcat said... and how is one meant to answer this poll? It seems if I say "yes" I am agreeing with the question's phrasing "you don't need the material", but it could also mean I'm saying "yes, you need the component" which isn't the case.
A component pouch CONTAINS the material component... hence the name...
From the paragraph on the material component:
Material (M) Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
As specified, if a cost is indicated, a character must have that specific component.
Was researching a similar question when I found this thread.
The way I understand it is this:
If you have a Component Pouch or Focus you do not need to specifically go looking for components and write them on your character sheet. So all the feathers, fleece, leaves, etc etc that spells call for are assummed to be in your component pouch.
UNLESS the the spell indicates a monetary value, for example, Identify says you need a pearl worth at least 100gp. That pearl must be purchased by the player and written on the sheet.
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Tabletop D&D player, DM Neverwinter Online Witty Quote Here
Now, the question is, which option to use? I have always liked the idea of a wizard using a staff "Gandalf-ey" style, but the age-old wand iswizardly cool! And what about an orb? How magical would it be to pull a melon-sized rock out of your pocket and conjure a lightning bolt?
Or simply dip a few fingers into a pouch and produce some bat poop that you fling at poor mister Big Bad Evil Guy and Baboom! Fireballed!
so if you have an arcane focus do you still need a component pouch?
No, it’s either or. And then whatever specific components with listed gp costs are separate. Take identify for example. If you have either a Component Pouch or an Arcane Focus you no longer need the feather, however you do still need the pearl either way. The Component Pouch is considered to have the feather within, the Arcane Focus replaces the feather entirely.
so if you have an arcane focus do you still need a component pouch?
The main (though not only) uses of the component pouch are for multi-class casters (who would need different foci for their classes) or casters that are unable to use a focus (AT, EK, etc).
so if you have an arcane focus do you still need a component pouch?
The main (though not only) uses of the component pouch are for multi-class casters (who would need different foci for their classes) or casters that are unable to use a focus (AT, EK, etc).
Or for casters in games with strict component rules observance that want the mechanically superior version that doesn't require putting either a weapon or a focus away.
Take the Gandalf's staff example a few posts ago, Gandalf can do spells as long as he has his staff in his hand, but if he was to switch to his sword (cant remember its name off the top of my head) he would need a component pouch to continue to use spells.
Pro - can be used as a weapon (staff), can provide bonuses to DCs or Spell Attack rolls (wands), cannot be stolen with sleight of hand
Con - can be disarmed, gets in the way of wielding other things in that hand
Component Pouch:
Pro - cannot be disarmed, frees up hand to wield things more easily
Com - can be stolen, never provides bonuses to DC or Spell Attacks
One could put a wand on a wrist lanyard as easily as a component pouch around the neck. You still need a free hand to interact with the pouch. To be honest, in the vast majority of cases a component pouch compared to a focus is primarily an aesthetics choice.
Pro - can be used as a weapon (staff), can provide bonuses to DCs or Spell Attack rolls (wands), cannot be stolen with sleight of hand
Con - can be disarmed, gets in the way of wielding other things in that hand
Component Pouch:
Pro - cannot be disarmed, frees up hand to wield things more easily
Com - can be stolen, never provides bonuses to DC or Spell Attacks
One could put a wand on a wrist lanyard as easily as a component pouch around the neck. You still need a free hand to interact with the pouch. To be honest, in the vast majority of cases a component pouch compared to a focus is primarily an aesthetics choice.
I also allow Rods to be used as clubs.
When I DM I don’t allow a whole bunch of strange items to overcome the rules - hands either hold an item, or not. If you are holding a focus, you need to interact with it to sheathe it or you can just drop it. A component pouch never needs to be wielded, it stays in inventory.
“Lanyards” are a players way of trying to overcome the Pros and Cons of the items themselves and how they’re used - you never need to wield a Component Pouch to use it, and you need to wield an Arcane Focus to use it. This leads down a slippery slope of custom rule sets like “a lanyard on my wrist with a dagger, a focus, and a holy symbol”... what’s your lanyard limit? Is there a wielded status, an inventory status, and now a lanyard status we need to implement?
IMO, if you want a simple solution, use the existing rules and then there’s some Pros and Cons with each that make sense and don’t require the excess.
Edit: I have no issue with Rods as clubs, at the very least an Improvised weapon but I don’t see the issue with a simple club option, as it’s in line with the existing rule set.
You still need a free hand to interact with the pouch.
That's a point that seems to be often missed. Spell focus items and component pouches do not affect the "hands required" rules in any way.
If a spell has M component, you need a free hand. That hand will be either holding a focus or holding some components (which might have been taken from a component pouch or from a pocket).
If a spell has S component, you need a free hand. That hand will be making some magical gestures.
If a spell has both M and S component then you need one free hand, not two free hands. That hand will be doing all of the above.
There are a few exceptions. For example putting a cleric's holy symbol on a shield.
My Focus is a pauldron (shoulder armour from a suit of armour) that i used to repair my shell, i am a tortle and my backstory says my shell was damaged, it has Bahamut's symbol on it. I weld a shield, strapped to my left forearm and hand like captain america, and long sword, and as long as i touch the pauldron (it is above my left shoulder) it counts. I don't know if it works with RAW, but my DM is happy with me using it.
My Focus is a pauldron (shoulder armour from a suit of armour) that i used to repair my shell, i am a tortle and my backstory says my shell was damaged, it has Bahamut's symbol on it. I weld a shield, strapped to my left forearm and hand like captain america, and long sword, and as long as i touch the pauldron (it is above my left shoulder) it counts. I don't know if it works with RAW, but my DM is happy with me using it.
Yeah, it’s always good to check with your DM for anything you have questions about 🙂
but the advantage of a pouch over focus is after you cast a spell you have a free hand if you use the pouch....but your hand is still occupied if you the focus...does that sound correct?
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So me and a friend had a small argument about the component pouch and arcane focus. That if you have an arcane focus, you can pull off any spell within your available list without any of the components needed whatsoever. Would you still need some of the required material even if you have the arcane focus?
If you have a component pouch or a focus, you do not need material component, unless the material has a cost specified in the spell description.
What filcat said... and how is one meant to answer this poll? It seems if I say "yes" I am agreeing with the question's phrasing "you don't need the material", but it could also mean I'm saying "yes, you need the component" which isn't the case.
A component pouch CONTAINS the material component... hence the name...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
From the paragraph on the material component:
I meant with regard to non-costly material components. OP did not specify costly material components.
Edit: I think I misunderstood the question.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Was researching a similar question when I found this thread.
The way I understand it is this:
If you have a Component Pouch or Focus you do not need to specifically go looking for components and write them on your character sheet. So all the feathers, fleece, leaves, etc etc that spells call for are assummed to be in your component pouch.
UNLESS the the spell indicates a monetary value, for example, Identify says you need a pearl worth at least 100gp. That pearl must be purchased by the player and written on the sheet.
Tabletop D&D player, DM
Neverwinter Online
Witty Quote Here
Gint has it exactly right!
Now, the question is, which option to use? I have always liked the idea of a wizard using a staff "Gandalf-ey" style, but the age-old wand is wizardly cool! And what about an orb? How magical would it be to pull a melon-sized rock out of your pocket and conjure a lightning bolt?
Or simply dip a few fingers into a pouch and produce some bat poop that you fling at poor mister Big Bad Evil Guy and Baboom! Fireballed!
Ah, choices! Joy!
No, it’s either or. And then whatever specific components with listed gp costs are separate. Take identify for example. If you have either a Component Pouch or an Arcane Focus you no longer need the feather, however you do still need the pearl either way. The Component Pouch is considered to have the feather within, the Arcane Focus replaces the feather entirely.
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The main (though not only) uses of the component pouch are for multi-class casters (who would need different foci for their classes) or casters that are unable to use a focus (AT, EK, etc).
Or for casters in games with strict component rules observance that want the mechanically superior version that doesn't require putting either a weapon or a focus away.
yes what Jhffan said about putting a focus away.
Take the Gandalf's staff example a few posts ago, Gandalf can do spells as long as he has his staff in his hand, but if he was to switch to his sword (cant remember its name off the top of my head) he would need a component pouch to continue to use spells.
Here are my pros and cons for both, when I DM:
Arcane Focus:
Pro - can be used as a weapon (staff), can provide bonuses to DCs or Spell Attack rolls (wands), cannot be stolen with sleight of hand
Con - can be disarmed, gets in the way of wielding other things in that hand
Component Pouch:
Pro - cannot be disarmed, frees up hand to wield things more easily
Com - can be stolen, never provides bonuses to DC or Spell Attacks
One could put a wand on a wrist lanyard as easily as a component pouch around the neck. You still need a free hand to interact with the pouch. To be honest, in the vast majority of cases a component pouch compared to a focus is primarily an aesthetics choice.
I also allow Rods to be used as clubs.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
When I DM I don’t allow a whole bunch of strange items to overcome the rules - hands either hold an item, or not. If you are holding a focus, you need to interact with it to sheathe it or you can just drop it. A component pouch never needs to be wielded, it stays in inventory.
“Lanyards” are a players way of trying to overcome the Pros and Cons of the items themselves and how they’re used - you never need to wield a Component Pouch to use it, and you need to wield an Arcane Focus to use it. This leads down a slippery slope of custom rule sets like “a lanyard on my wrist with a dagger, a focus, and a holy symbol”... what’s your lanyard limit? Is there a wielded status, an inventory status, and now a lanyard status we need to implement?
IMO, if you want a simple solution, use the existing rules and then there’s some Pros and Cons with each that make sense and don’t require the excess.
Edit: I have no issue with Rods as clubs, at the very least an Improvised weapon but I don’t see the issue with a simple club option, as it’s in line with the existing rule set.
so the idea is that with a pouch you are touching in some way the actual material components of the spell? but you have a free hand afterward?
That's a point that seems to be often missed. Spell focus items and component pouches do not affect the "hands required" rules in any way.
If a spell has M component, you need a free hand. That hand will be either holding a focus or holding some components (which might have been taken from a component pouch or from a pocket).
If a spell has S component, you need a free hand. That hand will be making some magical gestures.
If a spell has both M and S component then you need one free hand, not two free hands. That hand will be doing all of the above.
There are a few exceptions. For example putting a cleric's holy symbol on a shield.
My Focus is a pauldron (shoulder armour from a suit of armour) that i used to repair my shell, i am a tortle and my backstory says my shell was damaged, it has Bahamut's symbol on it. I weld a shield, strapped to my left forearm and hand like captain america, and long sword, and as long as i touch the pauldron (it is above my left shoulder) it counts. I don't know if it works with RAW, but my DM is happy with me using it.
Yeah, it’s always good to check with your DM for anything you have questions about 🙂
but the advantage of a pouch over focus is after you cast a spell you have a free hand if you use the pouch....but your hand is still occupied if you the focus...does that sound correct?