So i am rebuilding my Bard to be a Lore Bard in the long haul, and im looking at all the spells i could attain. I looked at the wish spell and it said i can replicate any said spell from 8th level down, so theoretically speaking, could my Bard cast a spell from any classes spell list? Examples such as Find greater steed (since it has no duration) or Investiture of Flame (just cause)?
The basic use of spell allows you to cast any spell you want, from any spell list, up to 8th level. This could be an 8th level spell like Demiplane or a 1st level spell like Magic Missile cast at 8th level.
For the spell you replicate you: ignore casting time, ignore all components, ignore any other restrictions. If the component is part of the function of spell like the chest in Leomond's Secret Chest or the sapphire of the Dawmj's Instant Summons then the Wish creates that component for as long as the spell is in effect (some DMs may allow you to just have the component permanently after afterwards, discuss with DM). There is debate on whether the replicated spell will require concentration - you will need to discuss DM as there is no definitive answer the RAW can be interpreted either way by the words used (and annoyingly Sage Advice refuses to answer despite many, many, pesterings).
Essentially you are casting a 9th level spell as 1 action requiring only the Verbal component. You just get to choose the spell effect by copying any spell you want at 8th level in power.
I have a question sort of related to this. Say I multiclass my lvl 20 character. 17 bard, 3 warlock. Could I switch one of my 14th level magical secret pickups to Wish, so long as I was the appropriate level to cast it?
I have a question sort of related to this. Say I multiclass my lvl 20 character. 17 bard, 3 warlock. Could I switch one of my 14th level magical secret pickups to Wish, so long as I was the appropriate level to cast it?
I have a question sort of related to this. Say I multiclass my lvl 20 character. 17 bard, 3 warlock. Could I switch one of my 14th level magical secret pickups to Wish, so long as I was the appropriate level to cast it?
Actually unless you have a Home Brew rule that allows it, you cannot. This is because any spell you would like to switch has to be a Bard spell. And spells outside of the Bard spell list only become Bard spells for you when they get picked up as Magical Secrets.
To summarize you can swap your Magical Secrets spells for other spells but they have to be on the Bard spell. If you do you cannot change it back to the original spell unless you take it as a Magical Secrets again at a higher level.
I have a question sort of related to this. Say I multiclass my lvl 20 character. 17 bard, 3 warlock. Could I switch one of my 14th level magical secret pickups to Wish, so long as I was the appropriate level to cast it?
Yes. Why does the warlock matter?
The Warlock matters because he wants to take 3 levels of it, reducing the maximum level of his Bard to 17 which is 1 short of the 18th level he needs in order to take Wish as a Magical Secrets.
Well, I guess if he doesn't reach level 18 in Bard he can't pick up Wish and the whole question is moot.
Getting back to the first question, I can't imagine using a Wish spell to cast Find Greater Steed, such a low level spell. One reason is because once you're at that high of a level you should have solved all of those sorts of problems for yourself long ago. For example, if you can meet up with someone with a Ring of Spell Storing, you can have a Find Greater Steed spell stored in the ring, put it on, cast the spell, and return the ring. You can do this long before you reach level 18. Another reason is the material cost of a Wish spell is steep.
What Bard spell would one want from the Bard list at level 9 besides True Polymorph? Now that Tashas rules have come along, I expect there are times when you might pick one of the other spells for a day, but True Polymorph would have to be my "usual" spell from the list.
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Well, I guess if he doesn't reach level 18 in Bard he can't pick up Wish and the whole question is moot.
Getting back to the first question, I can't imagine using a Wish spell to cast Find Greater Steed, such a low level spell. One reason is because once you're at that high of a level you should have solved all of those sorts of problems for yourself long ago. For example, if you can meet up with someone with a Ring of Spell Storing, you can have a Find Greater Steed spell stored in the ring, put it on, cast the spell, and return the ring. You can do this long before you reach level 18. Another reason is the material cost of a Wish spell is steep.
What Bard spell would one want from the Bard list at level 9 besides True Polymorph? Now that Tashas rules have come along, I expect there are times when you might pick one of the other spells for a day, but True Polymorph would have to be my "usual" spell from the list.
At 18th level they can have two 9th level spells - one being from the Bard spell list and one being any, if they used their Magical Secrets. Using the option to swap spells from lower to higher on gaining levels they could, by 18th level, have up to 4 9th level spells. There is absolutely nothing stopping somebody choosing Wish & True Polymorph.
Wish is an indispensable spell. It offers more choice and versatility than any other spell or feature in D&D 5th edition. It basically means you can, once per day, cast any 8th level or lower spell in the game risk-free and without any cost. With enough uses of this you can eventually end up with: free housing, double your 1st-8th level spell slots, 2 spells with concentration at once, oh and immortality. And that's just the BASIC use of the spell. I think anyone who passes this up must be insane or just doesn't have an understanding of the spell.
So why is Find Greater Steed better with wish than with Magical Secrets and why would anyone want this? Well, Find Greater Steed can give you a flying mount that grants you multiple more options in scouting and combat if you pick a flying mount. It can attack so it can defend you if an enemy gets nearby and it can fly meaning you can take to the air to avoid melee enemies. They typically have higher speed granting greater manoeuvrability and for escaping. And once cast, you don't need to cast again unless the steed is killed or you want to change its form. It's much better to use Wish for this rather than taking up a Magical Secrets slot for a spell you'll hardly ever cast.
Also, I am mightily confused why you say Wish has a steep material cost, when it doesn't. Choosing spell replication means the following:
- You can copy the effect of any spell of 8th level or lower. - The replicated spell effect is at 8th level but the casting is still 9th level for purposes of Dispel Magic and Counterspell. - The casting time of Wish is used instead of the casting time of the replicated spell. So even if you replicated a spell with a casting time of 12 hours, you get it as an Action instead. - The component requirement is that of Wish, not of the replicated spell. So even if you were replicating something like Resurrection with a material component cost of 1,000 GP, using wish you just replicate it using only Verbal component (the only component Wish has), and don't have to provide a single coin of any value. - Replicating a spell is a basic use of wish meaning it does not incur any of the penalties or risks of the non-basic use. The replicated spell just takes effect.
Your only cost is a one time use of 1 action and a 9th level spell slot. And just like that you get a permanent steed that can carry you around - even in the air if you want. And you can still keep your Magical Secrets choices for spells you are likely to cast more often.
Using Wish, if you have it, for Find Greater Steed is an absolutely fantastic use of the spell. The steeds you can get from that spell are very, very useful.
Finally, I am also confused in your last line you mention that with Tasha's bards can try other other spells for a day but your goto is True Polymorph. They can't swap 9th level spells for a day. They can only swap 9th level spells when levelling at 18th, 19th and 20th character levels. I think it's unlikely people will be levelling up that quickly. So... what? Are you being mistaken about the optional class feature where they can swap a cantrip for another cantrip on a long rest? O.o
From describing Wish's material cost of "free" as "steep", a complete lack of understanding about the benefits of Find Greater Steed by all accounts, a complete lack of understanding of the Wish spell in every possible regard, and suggesting people can swap 9th level spells daily when no official source says they can - I can't help but find your post utterly confusing.
Concerning the cost for Wish, I wonder if I am just having a moment of bad memory, but back in AD&D days I believe Wish had a huge material component cost. I looked it up and it appears it has no material cost anymore. So I haven't played 5e long enough to have reached that level and I was just going off my memory from almost 40 years ago.
And I guess I will sit in the corner until you say it's OK to come out.
So i am rebuilding my Bard to be a Lore Bard in the long haul, and im looking at all the spells i could attain. I looked at the wish spell and it said i can replicate any said spell from 8th level down, so theoretically speaking, could my Bard cast a spell from any classes spell list? Examples such as Find greater steed (since it has no duration) or Investiture of Flame (just cause)?
Yes.
The basic use of spell allows you to cast any spell you want, from any spell list, up to 8th level. This could be an 8th level spell like Demiplane or a 1st level spell like Magic Missile cast at 8th level.
For the spell you replicate you: ignore casting time, ignore all components, ignore any other restrictions. If the component is part of the function of spell like the chest in Leomond's Secret Chest or the sapphire of the Dawmj's Instant Summons then the Wish creates that component for as long as the spell is in effect (some DMs may allow you to just have the component permanently after afterwards, discuss with DM). There is debate on whether the replicated spell will require concentration - you will need to discuss DM as there is no definitive answer the RAW can be interpreted either way by the words used (and annoyingly Sage Advice refuses to answer despite many, many, pesterings).
Essentially you are casting a 9th level spell as 1 action requiring only the Verbal component. You just get to choose the spell effect by copying any spell you want at 8th level in power.
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I have a question sort of related to this. Say I multiclass my lvl 20 character. 17 bard, 3 warlock. Could I switch one of my 14th level magical secret pickups to Wish, so long as I was the appropriate level to cast it?
Yes. Why does the warlock matter?
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Actually unless you have a Home Brew rule that allows it, you cannot. This is because any spell you would like to switch has to be a Bard spell. And spells outside of the Bard spell list only become Bard spells for you when they get picked up as Magical Secrets.
To summarize you can swap your Magical Secrets spells for other spells but they have to be on the Bard spell. If you do you cannot change it back to the original spell unless you take it as a Magical Secrets again at a higher level.
The Warlock matters because he wants to take 3 levels of it, reducing the maximum level of his Bard to 17 which is 1 short of the 18th level he needs in order to take Wish as a Magical Secrets.
Well, I guess if he doesn't reach level 18 in Bard he can't pick up Wish and the whole question is moot.
Getting back to the first question, I can't imagine using a Wish spell to cast Find Greater Steed, such a low level spell. One reason is because once you're at that high of a level you should have solved all of those sorts of problems for yourself long ago. For example, if you can meet up with someone with a Ring of Spell Storing, you can have a Find Greater Steed spell stored in the ring, put it on, cast the spell, and return the ring. You can do this long before you reach level 18. Another reason is the material cost of a Wish spell is steep.
What Bard spell would one want from the Bard list at level 9 besides True Polymorph? Now that Tashas rules have come along, I expect there are times when you might pick one of the other spells for a day, but True Polymorph would have to be my "usual" spell from the list.
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At 18th level they can have two 9th level spells - one being from the Bard spell list and one being any, if they used their Magical Secrets. Using the option to swap spells from lower to higher on gaining levels they could, by 18th level, have up to 4 9th level spells. There is absolutely nothing stopping somebody choosing Wish & True Polymorph.
Wish is an indispensable spell. It offers more choice and versatility than any other spell or feature in D&D 5th edition. It basically means you can, once per day, cast any 8th level or lower spell in the game risk-free and without any cost. With enough uses of this you can eventually end up with: free housing, double your 1st-8th level spell slots, 2 spells with concentration at once, oh and immortality. And that's just the BASIC use of the spell. I think anyone who passes this up must be insane or just doesn't have an understanding of the spell.
So why is Find Greater Steed better with wish than with Magical Secrets and why would anyone want this? Well, Find Greater Steed can give you a flying mount that grants you multiple more options in scouting and combat if you pick a flying mount. It can attack so it can defend you if an enemy gets nearby and it can fly meaning you can take to the air to avoid melee enemies. They typically have higher speed granting greater manoeuvrability and for escaping. And once cast, you don't need to cast again unless the steed is killed or you want to change its form. It's much better to use Wish for this rather than taking up a Magical Secrets slot for a spell you'll hardly ever cast.
Also, I am mightily confused why you say Wish has a steep material cost, when it doesn't. Choosing spell replication means the following:
- You can copy the effect of any spell of 8th level or lower.
- The replicated spell effect is at 8th level but the casting is still 9th level for purposes of Dispel Magic and Counterspell.
- The casting time of Wish is used instead of the casting time of the replicated spell. So even if you replicated a spell with a casting time of 12 hours, you get it as an Action instead.
- The component requirement is that of Wish, not of the replicated spell. So even if you were replicating something like Resurrection with a material component cost of 1,000 GP, using wish you just replicate it using only Verbal component (the only component Wish has), and don't have to provide a single coin of any value.
- Replicating a spell is a basic use of wish meaning it does not incur any of the penalties or risks of the non-basic use. The replicated spell just takes effect.
Your only cost is a one time use of 1 action and a 9th level spell slot. And just like that you get a permanent steed that can carry you around - even in the air if you want. And you can still keep your Magical Secrets choices for spells you are likely to cast more often.
Using Wish, if you have it, for Find Greater Steed is an absolutely fantastic use of the spell. The steeds you can get from that spell are very, very useful.
Finally, I am also confused in your last line you mention that with Tasha's bards can try other other spells for a day but your goto is True Polymorph. They can't swap 9th level spells for a day. They can only swap 9th level spells when levelling at 18th, 19th and 20th character levels. I think it's unlikely people will be levelling up that quickly. So... what? Are you being mistaken about the optional class feature where they can swap a cantrip for another cantrip on a long rest? O.o
From describing Wish's material cost of "free" as "steep", a complete lack of understanding about the benefits of Find Greater Steed by all accounts, a complete lack of understanding of the Wish spell in every possible regard, and suggesting people can swap 9th level spells daily when no official source says they can - I can't help but find your post utterly confusing.
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Concerning the cost for Wish, I wonder if I am just having a moment of bad memory, but back in AD&D days I believe Wish had a huge material component cost. I looked it up and it appears it has no material cost anymore. So I haven't played 5e long enough to have reached that level and I was just going off my memory from almost 40 years ago.
And I guess I will sit in the corner until you say it's OK to come out.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt