I was looking over the Arcana Domain in SCAG and was wondering why it doesnt seem to be a more popular cleric subclass in the community.
Since they get wizard cantrips that count as cleric cantrips, they get powerful combat cantrips that only get more powerful once you get potent spellcasting.
One drawback I see is that its channel divinity is a little situational, but now that Tasha's has given clerics a way to regain spell slots using their CD, I dont see that as much as a drawback.
Also, with the addition of spells like Aura of Vitality to the cleric spell list, it feels like Spell Breaker could be super impactful (not to mention the impact of existing cleric spells like mass healing word).
IDK, is there something about this subclass that I am missing that makes it worse than it seems?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Its hard to love the subclass when it doesn't get Fireball while trying to be a Holy Wizard. And while 2 wizard cantrips at level 1 are welcome, most of the other Cleric subclasses tend to get a ability that is unique and in most cases fairly useful. Add the the already aforementioned situational Channel Divinity and that may start to explain the lack of love for the Arcana domain.
The big issues are that the spell casting is not as powerful as it should be while not getting heavy armor and martial weapons.
I played one I multiclassed with Ranger and had a good time with it.
Thats fair. Perhaps if they had gotten Mage Armor as one of their 1st level domain spells or as just a free add on it could have helped to make up for the lack of extra armor proficiency. The martial weapon proficiency I am not too worried about since this subclass will probably be using their cantrips in combat as opposed to making weapon attacks (or in addition to if they use BB or GFB from the wizard list).
One other technical question I have. I know this can be a bit of a weird area depending on language, but when they get the two wizard cantrips at level one, do they count against the 3 cleric cantrips they have per the Spellcasting feature or are these 2 additional cantrips (thus they would have a total of 5)?
Its hard to love the subclass when it doesn't get Fireball while trying to be a Holy Wizard. And while 2 wizard cantrips at level 1 are welcome, most of the other Cleric subclasses tend to get a ability that is unique and in most cases fairly useful. Add the the already aforementioned situational Channel Divinity and that may start to explain the lack of love for the Arcana domain.
I would disagree that the cleric needs fireball to be a "holy wizard." As a cleric that worships a deity of magic and the weave, I feel like its spell list (while not very powerful) is very "on theme" for a character that is meant to have a more vast understanding/relationship with the arcane. Not all of the choices are great, but I dont think I would replace them with many more "blaster" type spells if I were to make any changes
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
One other technical question I have. I know this can be a bit of a weird area depending on language, but when they get the two wizard cantrips at level one, do they count against the 3 cleric cantrips they have per the Spellcasting feature or are these 2 additional cantrips (thus they would have a total of 5)?
Arcana Clerics start with 5 cantrips, this is their level 1 feature basically along with Arcana proficiency.
I would disagree that the cleric needs fireball to be a "holy wizard." As a cleric that worships a deity of magic and the weave, I feel like its spell list (while not very powerful) is very "on theme" for a character that is meant to have a more vast understanding/relationship with the arcane. Not all of the choices are great, but I dont think I would replace them with many more "blaster" type spells if I were to make any changes
Its not just Fireball, I find the Arcana domains spell list to be disappointing in general. You could replace the lack Fireball with any iconic Wizard spell. If they at least got 1 good iconic Wizard spell before having to hit level 17 would make this class a lot more appealing.
I would disagree that the cleric needs fireball to be a "holy wizard." As a cleric that worships a deity of magic and the weave, I feel like its spell list (while not very powerful) is very "on theme" for a character that is meant to have a more vast understanding/relationship with the arcane. Not all of the choices are great, but I dont think I would replace them with many more "blaster" type spells if I were to make any changes
Its not just Fireball, I find the Arcana domains spell list to be disappointing in general. You could replace the lack Fireball with any iconic Wizard spell. If they at least got 1 good iconic Wizard spell before having to hit level 17 would make this class a lot more appealing.
I would consider Magic Missile to be a pretty iconic wizard spell, and its pretty powerful for a 1st level spell considering its guaranteed damage without any attack roll or saving throw. The others may not be "iconic" but they do scream wizard to me.
If you were to rewrite this subclass' domain spell list, what would your list look like? (to be clear, I am not saying this as a challenge, I am genuinely curious)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Arcana clerics are one of my favorite clerics. That said, the cantrips are overrated by many people. Most battles after about level 5 you have something better to do with your action than cast a firebolt. The channel divinity and domain spells are fairly meh.
Once you look past the cantrip, arcana doesn't have much to offer until you start looking at 9th level spells and can start getting some hard hitting wizard spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Once you look past the cantrip, arcana doesn't have much to offer until you start looking at 9th level spells and can start getting some hard hitting wizard spells.
If we look past the cantrips, arcana gets
A CD which turns four different types of creatures (celestials, elementals, fey, and fiends) and after 5th level gives you a limited casting of Banishment (a 4th level spell) for free on top of that without requiring concentration. Granted this is still situational, but being able to turn celestials/elementals/fey/fiends is great in campaigns featuring any of those creatures on an average basis.
An effective casting of Dispel Magic on top of a healing spell. You can really get more bang for your buck by casting healing spells which target more than one creature (like Mass Healing Word) or persist for multiple turns (like Aura of Vitality), allowing you to keep nasty spells off the entire party throughout a combat. Being able to heal and remove spell effects at the same time is great if your party regularly fights enemy casters.
Potent Spellcasting, which is par for the course for a cleric. Arguably, its even stronger on arcana clerics since they have access to more cantrips which can benefit from it, with more versatility in range, number of targets, and rider effects giving them a fair arsenal of choices which will all deal more damage than a wizard casting the same cantrip.
These arent game breaking abilities by any means, but I think the subclass has alot more to offer than just a few cantrips and 9th level wizard spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
One point that was made earlier that I thought was really interesting was that Arcana falls behind because it has weak domain spells AND does not get Heavy Armor prof / Martial Weapon prof.
I think that the extra cantrips make up for the lack of martial weapon proficiency, but the lack of armor proficiency gave me an idea for an optional subclass feature
Woven Armor
1st-level Arcana Domain feature
Also when you choose this domain at 1st level, you can cast Mage Armor on yourself at will, without expending a spell slot or material components. You can expend a use of your Channel Divinity feature as part of casting the spell to gain resistance to non magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage for 1 minute.
You can choose one additional damage type to gain resistance to when you expend your Channel Divinity this way after you reach 6th level, and another additional damage type after you reach 18th level.
This accomplishes a few things in my opinion. 1) It makes this cleric feel even more "wizardy" by giving it a way to use the Mage Armor spell 2) It gives it a reliable way to buff its AC, although to reach the same levels as heavy armor youd need to invest in Dex 3) It gives another way to regularly make use of your CD when Turn Undead and Arcane Abjuration arent applicable.
Heavy armor is mostly a side grade from medium. Shield Prof is the important bit and the base class gets that.
So much this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Arcana is a competent domain, but it's not one of the best domains in mechanical terms. He's got powerful stuff and he's got a competitive spell list. But there are other domains that are more powerful, and have better lists.
But if you like its theme or want to multiclass wizard in a campaign that doesn't allow it (remember that multiclass is a totally optional rule), this is the domain you should choose. And you can make yourself a tremendously competent character with this subclass, do not hesitate.
Why is it not seen as much as other domains? Because there are better ones, and you have to give your character design several turns to really shine.
I really love this domain. It's one of my favorites. I played it in one campaign, and it was very versatile. You can stay behind conjuring. You can take it to the front without fear if the situation calls for it. A medium armor, with shield, and with a +2 in dex, can be enough. But if not, you can even cast shield of faith on it. You have many utility spells. You have offensive spells. You obviously have support spells. Perhaps its lowest point is its channel divinity, but it is not useless either. And if not, you can always use Tasha's as you say.
Spell breaker is bonkers. Note it isn't limited to when you cast the spell so you can turn something like regeneration into a hour of dispel magic. Mass healing word is another powerful combo. It's a free buff to your healing that
On that note, its a Dispel Magic that scales with your healing spells. So using your Regenerate example, that creature would effectively have Dispel Magic cast on them at 7th level at the start of their turns for 1 minute. I thought it was just good before, but I agree with you. At higher tiers of play, its bonkers what you can do with your healing spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Thread title kind of surprises me. Generally from what I've seen Arcana is considered one of the better domains, so I'm not sure what the OP means.
I would recommend reading the thread, since they did explain in detail.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
It could be that my perception was a bit off as well.
I very rarely see Arcana come up in conversation, but I also dont frequent Cleric specific conversations that often, so that could be on me.
My impression was also from the fact that it was on of the SCAG subclasses (which are generally viewed unfavorably) and it never got reprinted like several of the other subclasses that appeared in that book
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
The language on the cantrips is horrible. They for say arcana clerics "gain" two cantrips, but for other domains they explicitly say these are in addition to the cleric cantrips. I do believe these are in addition to, but the change in language is confusing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I was looking over the Arcana Domain in SCAG and was wondering why it doesnt seem to be a more popular cleric subclass in the community.
Since they get wizard cantrips that count as cleric cantrips, they get powerful combat cantrips that only get more powerful once you get potent spellcasting.
One drawback I see is that its channel divinity is a little situational, but now that Tasha's has given clerics a way to regain spell slots using their CD, I dont see that as much as a drawback.
Also, with the addition of spells like Aura of Vitality to the cleric spell list, it feels like Spell Breaker could be super impactful (not to mention the impact of existing cleric spells like mass healing word).
IDK, is there something about this subclass that I am missing that makes it worse than it seems?
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Its hard to love the subclass when it doesn't get Fireball while trying to be a Holy Wizard. And while 2 wizard cantrips at level 1 are welcome, most of the other Cleric subclasses tend to get a ability that is unique and in most cases fairly useful. Add the the already aforementioned situational Channel Divinity and that may start to explain the lack of love for the Arcana domain.
The big issues are that the spell casting is not as powerful as it should be while not getting heavy armor and martial weapons.
I played one I multiclassed with Ranger and had a good time with it.
Thats fair. Perhaps if they had gotten Mage Armor as one of their 1st level domain spells or as just a free add on it could have helped to make up for the lack of extra armor proficiency. The martial weapon proficiency I am not too worried about since this subclass will probably be using their cantrips in combat as opposed to making weapon attacks (or in addition to if they use BB or GFB from the wizard list).
One other technical question I have. I know this can be a bit of a weird area depending on language, but when they get the two wizard cantrips at level one, do they count against the 3 cleric cantrips they have per the Spellcasting feature or are these 2 additional cantrips (thus they would have a total of 5)?
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I would disagree that the cleric needs fireball to be a "holy wizard." As a cleric that worships a deity of magic and the weave, I feel like its spell list (while not very powerful) is very "on theme" for a character that is meant to have a more vast understanding/relationship with the arcane. Not all of the choices are great, but I dont think I would replace them with many more "blaster" type spells if I were to make any changes
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Arcana Clerics start with 5 cantrips, this is their level 1 feature basically along with Arcana proficiency.
Its not just Fireball, I find the Arcana domains spell list to be disappointing in general. You could replace the lack Fireball with any iconic Wizard spell. If they at least got 1 good iconic Wizard spell before having to hit level 17 would make this class a lot more appealing.
I would consider Magic Missile to be a pretty iconic wizard spell, and its pretty powerful for a 1st level spell considering its guaranteed damage without any attack roll or saving throw. The others may not be "iconic" but they do scream wizard to me.
If you were to rewrite this subclass' domain spell list, what would your list look like? (to be clear, I am not saying this as a challenge, I am genuinely curious)
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Arcana clerics are one of my favorite clerics. That said, the cantrips are overrated by many people. Most battles after about level 5 you have something better to do with your action than cast a firebolt. The channel divinity and domain spells are fairly meh.
Once you look past the cantrip, arcana doesn't have much to offer until you start looking at 9th level spells and can start getting some hard hitting wizard spells.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If we look past the cantrips, arcana gets
These arent game breaking abilities by any means, but I think the subclass has alot more to offer than just a few cantrips and 9th level wizard spells.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
One point that was made earlier that I thought was really interesting was that Arcana falls behind because it has weak domain spells AND does not get Heavy Armor prof / Martial Weapon prof.
I think that the extra cantrips make up for the lack of martial weapon proficiency, but the lack of armor proficiency gave me an idea for an optional subclass feature
This accomplishes a few things in my opinion. 1) It makes this cleric feel even more "wizardy" by giving it a way to use the Mage Armor spell 2) It gives it a reliable way to buff its AC, although to reach the same levels as heavy armor youd need to invest in Dex 3) It gives another way to regularly make use of your CD when Turn Undead and Arcane Abjuration arent applicable.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
So much this.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Arcana is a competent domain, but it's not one of the best domains in mechanical terms. He's got powerful stuff and he's got a competitive spell list. But there are other domains that are more powerful, and have better lists.
But if you like its theme or want to multiclass wizard in a campaign that doesn't allow it (remember that multiclass is a totally optional rule), this is the domain you should choose. And you can make yourself a tremendously competent character with this subclass, do not hesitate.
Why is it not seen as much as other domains? Because there are better ones, and you have to give your character design several turns to really shine.
I really love this domain. It's one of my favorites. I played it in one campaign, and it was very versatile. You can stay behind conjuring. You can take it to the front without fear if the situation calls for it. A medium armor, with shield, and with a +2 in dex, can be enough. But if not, you can even cast shield of faith on it. You have many utility spells. You have offensive spells. You obviously have support spells. Perhaps its lowest point is its channel divinity, but it is not useless either. And if not, you can always use Tasha's as you say.
On that note, its a Dispel Magic that scales with your healing spells. So using your Regenerate example, that creature would effectively have Dispel Magic cast on them at 7th level at the start of their turns for 1 minute. I thought it was just good before, but I agree with you. At higher tiers of play, its bonkers what you can do with your healing spells.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Thread title kind of surprises me. Generally from what I've seen Arcana is considered one of the better domains, so I'm not sure what the OP means.
I would recommend reading the thread, since they did explain in detail.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
It could be that my perception was a bit off as well.
I very rarely see Arcana come up in conversation, but I also dont frequent Cleric specific conversations that often, so that could be on me.
My impression was also from the fact that it was on of the SCAG subclasses (which are generally viewed unfavorably) and it never got reprinted like several of the other subclasses that appeared in that book
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
The language on the cantrips is horrible. They for say arcana clerics "gain" two cantrips, but for other domains they explicitly say these are in addition to the cleric cantrips. I do believe these are in addition to, but the change in language is confusing.