I think the main problem with Arcana is that so much of it is situational:
The channel divinity is so situational that you might never use it in a campaign, as even when the right type of enemies do crop up, the benefits of turning or banishing one may still not be enough to bother using it, so it's a channel divinity you might never use.
Spell Breaker is a great feature to have, but again it's highly situational; a lot of lingering monster effects aren't caused by spells, so this feature really only works against enemy spell casters, and it requires them to then use something that is worth ending on a target. It can be absolutely fantastic for spell economy as a support character, but again, might not come up at all.
The two cantrips are arguably its main feature, and it's at least up to you how consistently useful these are; personally I wouldn't go for combat cantrips unless one has a rider effect you really want, as you have better things you can do in combat than cantrips most of the time (even with potent spellcasting).
The spell list is okay but it again has a lot of situational spells that you may not use much, and even worse, it has spells like magic circle which you could just prepare from your cleric list when you think you need it, so it's not really an addition.
Best feature is Arcane Mastery, but you have to reach 17th-level to get it, which is is going to be too late for most campaigns.
So yeah, it's really just that its early features aren't as consistently useful as many other domains have, and many features may not come up enough to justify them; if you work with your DM to make sure that they do then it's less of a problem, and you could still have fun with it.
I think the biggest problem is it's a good idea poorly executed; if we got some more free spell choices earlier on, it could be fantastic. Maybe even some kind of domain spell swapping like for an Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul sorcerer?
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I think the main problem with Arcana is that so much of it is situational:
The channel divinity is so situational that you might never use it in a campaign, as even when the right type of enemies do crop up, the benefits of turning or banishing one may still not be enough to bother using it, so it's a channel divinity you might never use.
Spell Breaker is a great feature to have, but again it's highly situational; a lot of lingering monster effects aren't caused by spells, so this feature really only works against enemy spell casters, and it requires them to then use something that is worth ending on a target. It's absolutely fantastic for spell economy as a support character, but again, might not come up at all.
The two cantrips are arguably its main feature, and it's at least up to you how consistently useful these are; personally I wouldn't go for combat cantrips unless one has a rider effect you really want, as you have better things you can do in combat than cantrips most of the time (even with potent spellcasting).
The spell list is okay but it again has a lot of situational spells that you may not use much, and even worse, it has spells like magic circle which you could just prepare from your cleric list when you think you need it, so it's not really an addition.
Best feature is Arcane Mastery, but you have to reach 17th-level to get it, which is is going to be too late for most campaigns.
So yeah, it's really just that its early features aren't as consistently useful as many other domains have, and many features may not come up enough to justify them; if you work with your DM to make sure that they do then it's less of a problem, and you could still have fun with it.
I think the biggest problem is it's a good idea poorly executed; if we got some more free spell choices earlier on, it could be fantastic. Maybe even some kind of domain spell swapping like for an Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul sorcerer?
The CD is a little disappointing. On one hand, it targets several different types of creatures, none of which ever get a Turn Immunity feature IIRC, but you also only get to target one creature at a time. At least with Tasha's optional feature you can still consistently make use of your channel divinity even if you ignore the turn options
I have mixed feelings on the spell list. While I find it very "on theme" im not a fan of all the choices, especially the ones which have a costly material component. I think if you gave it the flexibility to change out their domain spells with other wizard spells from certain schools of magic like Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul sorc that could be a nice way to customize your spell list.
Spellbreaker is arguably what has me the most excited about this subclass, but as you said alot of monster effects are not spells. It would be nice if there was another use for spellbreaker, like ending certain status conditions (almost getting a free Lesser Restoration on top your healing) but that might push it to being too good for its level.
I dont think the Arcana cleric is too bad as it is right now, but recently I have been playing around with reworking the SCAG subclasses that did not get reprinted and I might make some minor changes to this one too and see how it feels.
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I largely agree with all the observations, pros/cons on CD and Spellbreaker, but I'd offer this position with regards to the spell list:
It depends on the party. If your party does not include "arcane" casters, this Domain list instantly becomes better.
1st Level: Detect Magic very much on par for the Domain flavor, and with the always prepared/ritual option, will probably be useful in many situations. Magic Missile scales pretty well, especially if forcing multiple concentration checks. It also benefits from being "always prepared", where Sorcerers would be limited with Known Spell options, and Wizards do not have "always prepared" spells ...
2nd Level: Magic Weapon is limited, and usually a poor use of Concentration. Probably works best in a campaign/setting with limited access to magic weapons, so it's either really important, or a complete waste. Nystul's Magic Aura, exclusive to the Wizard list, again would be very campaign/setting dependent, but the 24hr duration makes it a valuable bonus to that stealth/scout/deception attempt in locations subject to magical wards/detection. The 30-day cast/infinite duration option is worth considering to deliberately apply during a backstory or extended downtime situation, because it's basically free and why not.
3rd Level: Dispel Magic very much on par for flavor, and most casters with access to this spell prepare/know it daily, because you'll regret it if you don't have it in the situation you need it. Always prepared is perfect. Magic Circle with the 1min casting time makes this very, very situational with a deliberate plan to execute effectively. Not a huge fan, considering this is naturally available to the Cleric list anyway.
4th Level: Arcane Eye normally limited to Wizard/Artificer. 1 hour, Conc, 4th level, it's definitely a reliable, risk-free scout spell, though anyone with a familiar would probably accomplish the same intent. Bonus points for parties without familiars. Leomund's Secret Chest also limited to Wizard/Artificer. Situational, the component cost is really high, so not a huge fan. Could have some creative uses, I'm sure, just very specific components that would take a lot of deliberate planning to acquire.
5th Level: Planar Binding combos well with the Magic Circle, which is clear in the spell text. So if you can pull off the Magic Circle, you'll want to maximize that effort with Planar Binding. Both require time to execute. Teleportation Circle, usually restricted to Bard/Sorc/Wizard, one of the first spells available to travel long distances. Situational, but for parties who don't have Bard/Sorc/Wizard or other magical travel abilities at party level 9, this can be a campaign changing spell.
So again, we can't look at it exclusively from the Cleric perspective, you have to consider the party. If your party already has a Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Artificer ... then 100% agree that a handful of these options are redundant and insignificant. Same concept applies to the Level 17 ability to select 6, 7, 8 and 9th spell from Wizard... your selection should ideally cover any spell that you wished (and likely, literally with Wish) you had access to.
TL,DR: The Spell Domain list is more significant and effective in parties that do NOT include a Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard. The Arcana Domain Cleric can cover some of those gaps with the benefit of always prepared domain spells, which other classes would need to select with limited "known" options or prepared spell limits.
At low level it is kind of situational, but high level most games are seeing lots of those types of foes, so it becomes something you are going to use a lot.
The big problem with Arcana is the best Wizard cantrips push you to melee, but the lack of heavy armor means it is a trickier build on point buy than on another cleric. Not going melee makes the Wizard cantrips themselves less powerful.
Those subclasses exist to avoid multiclassing, which the game designers don't like. They included the multiclass option because they knew a lot of people would complain if they didn't, but they clearly didn't want to. This is why multiclassing punishes character progression so much, and is usually, except on rare occasions, a bad idea on a mechanical level.
That is, if you want to play a cleric with a little of wizard, you have the Arcane Domain. If you want an arcane caster with a little of cleric, you have Divine soul. And so with many of those subclasses that give you a bit of a flavor of another class.
The big problem with Arcana is the best Wizard cantrips push you to melee, but the lack of heavy armor means it is a trickier build on point buy than on another cleric. Not going melee makes the Wizard cantrips themselves less powerful.
I don't know why Minor Illusion or Mage Hand requires you to be in melee. But jokes aside light armor with a shield is perfectly acceptable for defensive purposes. 16 DEX with studded leather and a shield nets you 17 AC at level 1 which is not too shabby. The bigger problem is the only finesse weapon a Arcana Cleric is proficient in is the dagger if you want to use the blade cantrips with DEX.
My main problem with the Arcana Domain isn't even on the mechanical side, it's on the roleplaying side. I just never felt like playing a character that is all about arcane magic but filtered through/mixed with religion. If I want to play a character that's all about arcane magic I'm usually much more interested in Wizards, Artificers or even Sorcerers or Warlocks (the failed Wizard approach in this case). If I want to play a Cleric I usually have a very different type of character in mind than something about arcane magic. Same goes for the Nature Doman to be honest. That might just be me though.
One of the things I dislike about the Arcana domain is that it's viewed as (and feels like) Cleric but with a bit of Wizard mixed in, but Arcana is a legitimate sphere of influence for deities in D&D as while Wizards may be relying on the work of Mystra and the like, they're not necessarily clerics or worshippers in any form.
In some ways Divine Soul Sorcerer is a better fit for that type of character right now though, as it gives you access to all the cleric spells you might want but with innate spellcasting and the ability to manipulate the Weave through metamagics which fits the theme quite well IMO. The only problem with Sorcerer is the spells they don't get, but this is more of a problem at the higher levels you may not reach in most campaigns, but it's why Arcane Mastery on Arcana domain is a solid high level feature (gives Arcana clerics access to high level goodies that Sorcerers simply don't get to have).
It's definitely a weird niche, and I feel like it could be carved out better; I think an improved spell list is the key thing it needs, plus maybe a sweetener for when you can't use Spell Breaker, or make it more general. For example, "when you cast a spell on a target affected by something against which it took a saving throw, it may retake the save to end the effect", this would mean you can't dispel outright, but giving allies a chance to retake a save they couldn't normally, or have more attempts at the save, would let them recover from a wide range of effects.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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It's definitely a weird niche, and I feel like it could be carved out better; I think an improved spell list is the key thing it needs, plus maybe a sweetener for when you can't use Spell Breaker, or make it more general. For example, "when you cast a spell on a target affected by something against which it took a saving throw, it may retake the save to end the effect", this would mean you can't dispel outright, but giving allies a chance to retake a save they couldn't normally, or have more attempts at the save, would let them recover for a wide range of effects.
I was playing around with basically making Spell Breaker function similar to Countercharm as another option if you dont want to / cant break a spell, but I also really like the idea of allowing the creature to repeat a save. That would be a very unique mechanic.
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The big problem with Arcana is the best Wizard cantrips push you to melee, but the lack of heavy armor means it is a trickier build on point buy than on another cleric. Not going melee makes the Wizard cantrips themselves less powerful.
I don't know why Minor Illusion or Mage Hand requires you to be in melee. But jokes aside light armor with a shield is perfectly acceptable for defensive purposes. 16 DEX with studded leather and a shield nets you 17 AC at level 1 which is not too shabby. The bigger problem is the only finesse weapon a Arcana Cleric is proficient in is the dagger if you want to use the blade cantrips with DEX.
That is what I meant that it is a tricky build. You can go 14 Dex and medium armor as that would be better as you can get 17 without a shield or 19 with one.
But on point buy you have invested 7 points to get to 14 Dex. If you figure another 7 you invested in Wisdom (at least), then you only have 13 points total for everything else. If you want a 16 strength that is 9 of those 13. If you dump strength you are left with a dagger like you said, unless you have a race that gives you better.
You can certainly do it and like you alluded to there are great Wizard cantrips that do not require melee, but mage hand is not really subclass defining IMO. Minor Illusion could be but you are kind of going a bit off the core thematic path with that if you make it a defining feature for the character think. Nothing wrong with that of course.
I typically play Elves, and an Arcana Cleric fits well with the High Elf extras. That also gives shortsword proficiency so if you really want to engage in melee you can have something better than a dagger. Taking Ritual Caster (Wizard) also adds to the Wizard/Cleric hybrid feel.
For myself I start with a 15 in con, and a 17 in wisdom, 14 in dex and stick with medium armour. I do try to find a [magic item]headband of intellect[/magic item] at some point, since so many of the Cleric's proficiencies are intelligence based. Being a bookish character suggests that arcana, religion, nature, and history should all be something he knows about. A couple of extra languages (for a total of five) and he's good to go.
Feats, Ritual Caster (Wizard), Resilient (Con) and Shadow Touched (Disguise Self and Invisibility) are my gotos. Since even an Arcana Cleric will mainly do the "cast concentration spell, summon Spiritual Weapon, fight" tactic I think a good concentration save is the most important thing.
IMO the problem is not, that Arcana is bad, but that Twilight, Peace and Forge are so good. Even if you like the concept of the Divine Wizard, it's hard to resist the temptation of the mechanically more powerful domains. Without some good offensive wizard spells on the list, this is simply not attractive enough, Mystra forgive me. And even if it's about combining the Arcane and Divine, you can still play a Divine Soul Sorcerer with access to Cleric and Sorcerer spells.
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The CD turning is interesting.. might save your party if you face a creature much more powerful than you if they are CR 3-8... probably above that might have magical resistance and for sure not turning immunity
The CD banishment is useless...if we are group of level 5 a creature at CR 1/2 is not that much deal to actually defeat it..if it was for a group like the turn undead might be worthy...
I think the main problem with Arcana is that so much of it is situational:
The channel divinity is so situational that you might never use it in a campaign, as even when the right type of enemies do crop up, the benefits of turning or banishing one may still not be enough to bother using it, so it's a channel divinity you might never use.
Spell Breaker is a great feature to have, but again it's highly situational; a lot of lingering monster effects aren't caused by spells, so this feature really only works against enemy spell casters, and it requires them to then use something that is worth ending on a target. It can be absolutely fantastic for spell economy as a support character, but again, might not come up at all.
The two cantrips are arguably its main feature, and it's at least up to you how consistently useful these are; personally I wouldn't go for combat cantrips unless one has a rider effect you really want, as you have better things you can do in combat than cantrips most of the time (even with potent spellcasting).
The spell list is okay but it again has a lot of situational spells that you may not use much, and even worse, it has spells like magic circle which you could just prepare from your cleric list when you think you need it, so it's not really an addition.
Best feature is Arcane Mastery, but you have to reach 17th-level to get it, which is is going to be too late for most campaigns.
So yeah, it's really just that its early features aren't as consistently useful as many other domains have, and many features may not come up enough to justify them; if you work with your DM to make sure that they do then it's less of a problem, and you could still have fun with it.
I think the biggest problem is it's a good idea poorly executed; if we got some more free spell choices earlier on, it could be fantastic. Maybe even some kind of domain spell swapping like for an Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul sorcerer?
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The CD is a little disappointing. On one hand, it targets several different types of creatures, none of which ever get a Turn Immunity feature IIRC, but you also only get to target one creature at a time. At least with Tasha's optional feature you can still consistently make use of your channel divinity even if you ignore the turn options
I have mixed feelings on the spell list. While I find it very "on theme" im not a fan of all the choices, especially the ones which have a costly material component. I think if you gave it the flexibility to change out their domain spells with other wizard spells from certain schools of magic like Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul sorc that could be a nice way to customize your spell list.
Spellbreaker is arguably what has me the most excited about this subclass, but as you said alot of monster effects are not spells. It would be nice if there was another use for spellbreaker, like ending certain status conditions (almost getting a free Lesser Restoration on top your healing) but that might push it to being too good for its level.
I dont think the Arcana cleric is too bad as it is right now, but recently I have been playing around with reworking the SCAG subclasses that did not get reprinted and I might make some minor changes to this one too and see how it feels.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I largely agree with all the observations, pros/cons on CD and Spellbreaker, but I'd offer this position with regards to the spell list:
It depends on the party. If your party does not include "arcane" casters, this Domain list instantly becomes better.
1st Level: Detect Magic very much on par for the Domain flavor, and with the always prepared/ritual option, will probably be useful in many situations. Magic Missile scales pretty well, especially if forcing multiple concentration checks. It also benefits from being "always prepared", where Sorcerers would be limited with Known Spell options, and Wizards do not have "always prepared" spells ...
2nd Level: Magic Weapon is limited, and usually a poor use of Concentration. Probably works best in a campaign/setting with limited access to magic weapons, so it's either really important, or a complete waste. Nystul's Magic Aura, exclusive to the Wizard list, again would be very campaign/setting dependent, but the 24hr duration makes it a valuable bonus to that stealth/scout/deception attempt in locations subject to magical wards/detection. The 30-day cast/infinite duration option is worth considering to deliberately apply during a backstory or extended downtime situation, because it's basically free and why not.
3rd Level: Dispel Magic very much on par for flavor, and most casters with access to this spell prepare/know it daily, because you'll regret it if you don't have it in the situation you need it. Always prepared is perfect. Magic Circle with the 1min casting time makes this very, very situational with a deliberate plan to execute effectively. Not a huge fan, considering this is naturally available to the Cleric list anyway.
4th Level: Arcane Eye normally limited to Wizard/Artificer. 1 hour, Conc, 4th level, it's definitely a reliable, risk-free scout spell, though anyone with a familiar would probably accomplish the same intent. Bonus points for parties without familiars. Leomund's Secret Chest also limited to Wizard/Artificer. Situational, the component cost is really high, so not a huge fan. Could have some creative uses, I'm sure, just very specific components that would take a lot of deliberate planning to acquire.
5th Level: Planar Binding combos well with the Magic Circle, which is clear in the spell text. So if you can pull off the Magic Circle, you'll want to maximize that effort with Planar Binding. Both require time to execute. Teleportation Circle, usually restricted to Bard/Sorc/Wizard, one of the first spells available to travel long distances. Situational, but for parties who don't have Bard/Sorc/Wizard or other magical travel abilities at party level 9, this can be a campaign changing spell.
So again, we can't look at it exclusively from the Cleric perspective, you have to consider the party. If your party already has a Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Artificer ... then 100% agree that a handful of these options are redundant and insignificant. Same concept applies to the Level 17 ability to select 6, 7, 8 and 9th spell from Wizard... your selection should ideally cover any spell that you wished (and likely, literally with Wish) you had access to.
TL,DR: The Spell Domain list is more significant and effective in parties that do NOT include a Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard. The Arcana Domain Cleric can cover some of those gaps with the benefit of always prepared domain spells, which other classes would need to select with limited "known" options or prepared spell limits.
I think the CD is ok early but awesome late.
At low level it is kind of situational, but high level most games are seeing lots of those types of foes, so it becomes something you are going to use a lot.
The big problem with Arcana is the best Wizard cantrips push you to melee, but the lack of heavy armor means it is a trickier build on point buy than on another cleric. Not going melee makes the Wizard cantrips themselves less powerful.
A 1-level fighter dip will solve this.
Those subclasses exist to avoid multiclassing, which the game designers don't like. They included the multiclass option because they knew a lot of people would complain if they didn't, but they clearly didn't want to.
This is why multiclassing punishes character progression so much, and is usually, except on rare occasions, a bad idea on a mechanical level.
That is, if you want to play a cleric with a little of wizard, you have the Arcane Domain. If you want an arcane caster with a little of cleric, you have Divine soul. And so with many of those subclasses that give you a bit of a flavor of another class.
I don't know why Minor Illusion or Mage Hand requires you to be in melee. But jokes aside light armor with a shield is perfectly acceptable for defensive purposes. 16 DEX with studded leather and a shield nets you 17 AC at level 1 which is not too shabby. The bigger problem is the only finesse weapon a Arcana Cleric is proficient in is the dagger if you want to use the blade cantrips with DEX.
One of the things I dislike about the Arcana domain is that it's viewed as (and feels like) Cleric but with a bit of Wizard mixed in, but Arcana is a legitimate sphere of influence for deities in D&D as while Wizards may be relying on the work of Mystra and the like, they're not necessarily clerics or worshippers in any form.
In some ways Divine Soul Sorcerer is a better fit for that type of character right now though, as it gives you access to all the cleric spells you might want but with innate spellcasting and the ability to manipulate the Weave through metamagics which fits the theme quite well IMO. The only problem with Sorcerer is the spells they don't get, but this is more of a problem at the higher levels you may not reach in most campaigns, but it's why Arcane Mastery on Arcana domain is a solid high level feature (gives Arcana clerics access to high level goodies that Sorcerers simply don't get to have).
It's definitely a weird niche, and I feel like it could be carved out better; I think an improved spell list is the key thing it needs, plus maybe a sweetener for when you can't use Spell Breaker, or make it more general. For example, "when you cast a spell on a target affected by something against which it took a saving throw, it may retake the save to end the effect", this would mean you can't dispel outright, but giving allies a chance to retake a save they couldn't normally, or have more attempts at the save, would let them recover from a wide range of effects.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I was playing around with basically making Spell Breaker function similar to Countercharm as another option if you dont want to / cant break a spell, but I also really like the idea of allowing the creature to repeat a save. That would be a very unique mechanic.
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That is what I meant that it is a tricky build. You can go 14 Dex and medium armor as that would be better as you can get 17 without a shield or 19 with one.
But on point buy you have invested 7 points to get to 14 Dex. If you figure another 7 you invested in Wisdom (at least), then you only have 13 points total for everything else. If you want a 16 strength that is 9 of those 13. If you dump strength you are left with a dagger like you said, unless you have a race that gives you better.
You can certainly do it and like you alluded to there are great Wizard cantrips that do not require melee, but mage hand is not really subclass defining IMO. Minor Illusion could be but you are kind of going a bit off the core thematic path with that if you make it a defining feature for the character think. Nothing wrong with that of course.
I typically play Elves, and an Arcana Cleric fits well with the High Elf extras. That also gives shortsword proficiency so if you really want to engage in melee you can have something better than a dagger. Taking Ritual Caster (Wizard) also adds to the Wizard/Cleric hybrid feel.
For myself I start with a 15 in con, and a 17 in wisdom, 14 in dex and stick with medium armour. I do try to find a [magic item]headband of intellect[/magic item] at some point, since so many of the Cleric's proficiencies are intelligence based. Being a bookish character suggests that arcana, religion, nature, and history should all be something he knows about. A couple of extra languages (for a total of five) and he's good to go.
Feats, Ritual Caster (Wizard), Resilient (Con) and Shadow Touched (Disguise Self and Invisibility) are my gotos. Since even an Arcana Cleric will mainly do the "cast concentration spell, summon Spiritual Weapon, fight" tactic I think a good concentration save is the most important thing.
IMO the problem is not, that Arcana is bad, but that Twilight, Peace and Forge are so good. Even if you like the concept of the Divine Wizard, it's hard to resist the temptation of the mechanically more powerful domains. Without some good offensive wizard spells on the list, this is simply not attractive enough, Mystra forgive me. And even if it's about combining the Arcane and Divine, you can still play a Divine Soul Sorcerer with access to Cleric and Sorcerer spells.
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The CD turning is interesting.. might save your party if you face a creature much more powerful than you if they are CR 3-8... probably above that might have magical resistance and for sure not turning immunity
The CD banishment is useless...if we are group of level 5 a creature at CR 1/2 is not that much deal to actually defeat it..if it was for a group like the turn undead might be worthy...
+3 Plate Armor Disagrees, especially when you drop your DEX to 8 in order to spread them to the stats that actually matter for the class.