I just find that Good Berries are a great way to heal the party after combat or in a emergency situation. I had a Mountain Dwarf Life Cleric that later on took the Magic Initiative feat to get Good Berries. In our campaign we were able to long rest once a day essentially, which is great because Good Berries last 24 hours. For an upkeep of a single level one slot a day I usually have 20 good berries on me. Thanks to being a Life Cleric the healing potency makes each berry heal for 4 HP, 20 x 4 = 80. This simple interaction of the Life Clerics features and Good Berries made the campaign in a blast as we are able to tackle much larger foes. Allowing us to take on bigger risks because we had good berries to fall on.
Long story short: Good Berry is one of my favorite spells as a Life Cleric
I believe it's "up to ten berries" per casting of Goodberry. To me it's too cheesy of a combination and players tend to abuse it. I understand the ruling that it should apply since Goodberry is a spell that restores HP, but the idea that someone is popping more than one in a day just seems wrong. I am a DM who does play food and water rules and for me, since a single berry from the Goodberry spell is meant to feed an individual for a day, I lean towards repercussions if someone eats more than one. Depending on how many someone eats, I would treat it kind of like Thanksgiving day overeating, and give them a CON save vs Exhaustion (level 1) since they removed the Sickened or Nauseated conditions from earlier editions. It's a little less severe than Poisoned, but still makes it more reasonable to me.
Understandable, it does lean towards the cheesy combination but for our personal campaign it seems to work well. Especially since each berry is considered to be a days worth of rations. My DM probably allows it due to a larger party and not much healing capabilities. It is "Up to ten berries" though so it could be limited if it got a bit much at DMs discretion. Can be abused easily by players but it can worked with to make it less exploitable such as over eating or not getting a lot of berries.
I have often thought about trying to use goodberry between fights for healing but there are other feats and spells that offer easy/cheap healing after fights
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Goodberry seems a little overpowered especially at the level my character is at. the spell can get out of hand but it is very useful for it's spell level
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"My D&D character is going to be snorting lines of cocaihahahahaha" - UncleTio
I understand that there was an official clarification that the Life Cleric ability "Disciple of Life" adds +3 healing to each berry, but I consider that to be a bad clarification.
Let's compare Goodberry & Cure Wounds.
Goodberry (1st level Druid spell)
10 points of healing.
Cure Wounds (1st level Cleric spell)
Assuming a caster stat bonus of +3, then the 1st level spell Cure Wounds would heal 1d8 +3 for wisdom. Average roll is 5, meaning a total of 8 healing.
That seems fair - Cure Wounds is much more flexible in a fight.
Add in "Disciple of Life" to Cure Wounds and it goes up from 8 healing to 11 healing. That's a 37% increase in effectiveness on an average roll.
So, it would seem reasonable that "Disciple of Life" would give a similar magnitude of bonus on Goodberry, increasing the total healing of the spell by +3. The simplest way to achieve this is to say that the spell now produces 13 berries.
Saying that Goodberry still produces 10 berries, but each one does 4 points of healing now .... that means a 1st level spell is doing 40 healing. It's also a 300% increase in the power of the spell, which goes against the design principles of how the game works imho.
Yeah I also think its slightly over powered. Well I know what my Clerics going to dip into. Goodberry mmmmm.
It does take an action to eat one berry by the character eating it similar to Potion of Healing which gives greater yield per action.
Short Rests are for more than just healing too.
Thanks for digging up the link - I already read it a while back, but have chosen to ignore it as a poorly thought through clarification (see maths above).
The balance of only eating one berry per action seems a little odd - I dunno about you guys, but I can eat multiple berries at once, unless ..... unless these berries are like each the size of an apple or something! :D
Yeah I hear ya Stormknight. I'd say if your a DM and your players are decent enough folk then your table may agree that the healing comes into effect on
the first berry
+1 (total of +3) to selective berries (chosen by Cleric or DM)
Another reason to consider is that the clerics divine power is coming is coming from the deity. The deity is probably willing to give the +3 HP but imagine if all clerics learnt this spell. The Deity would be insanely drained :P
Really, for me it boils down to one specific point. If the build is so overpowering in the difference that everyone follows that path, then it's likely in need of modification. I like the alternatives mentioned like the minor bonus enhanced berries or just adding more berries.
Yeah, as soon as a specific skill or spell becomes, "You must do this, or you are failing" then it's clear that it needs to change, as it eliminates choice.
The Disciple of Life feature shouldn't apply to Goodberry. (I'm aware the official ruling says otherwise.) The feature says "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level." Goodberry uses your spell to create magical berries. It doesn't directly heal anybody. It's a pedantic distinction, but I think an accurate one. I'd allow the spell to heal 3 more points at 1st level, which would mean more berries. It shouldn't give each berry more healing.
I think an easy solution would be eating multiple goodberries at one sitting restores X + 2 + Spell level hp. Where x is the number of goodberries eaten. The feature grants additional hit points, so I think ruling that those additional hit points only apply to the total quantity of goodberries eaten at one time would be a good compromise.
With that said, you can only eat one good berry per action, and gaining 40 hp outside of combat per day at the cost of a level one spell, is really not as bad as far as being overpowered. Unless of course a player is hogging all the goodberries for their own use. It basically might help the party from taking an extended rest rather than a simple short rest as parties are known to want to do. The key is that the op benefit of the goodberries can only occur outside of combat where players could take an extended rest and regain all hitpoints, so I don't think there is any need to worry about it.
Also as a DM if you know your players are getting 40 hp back after an attack, could allow you to also make the upcoming battle a little harder, or the previous battle a little more taxing.
I just don't really understand the big deal, here. I also want to call shenanigans on the one berry per day rule, you'd never put this restriction on a Druid without this ability so I think it's shenanigans to artificially impose one now. If you had a Druid without this ability would you argue the party can't eat more then 1 day even though it only heals a single HP? If that's true all it's good for is replacing the cost of a ration or reviving someone from Death Saves.
In my current game the Druid (lacks this ability) casts Goodberry once a day at breakfast and every party member gets 2 berries, so if anyone goes down in combat every character has a way to heal every other character. We only have a Paladin and Artificer for healing.
As for the Feat: Goodberry is a Druid/Ranger spell not a Cleric spell. So either you're a 1st level human who is using her Alt-Class feat to cast Goodberry. This gives only a single casting per day unless you also multiclassed in that class. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/) If you didn't do that then you are taking it in lieu of ability score increases or a different feat. Lets keep perspective on what Feats can accomplish in this edition: Feats do things like give attacks as Bonus Actions, ignore cover, immune to suprise, etc...
The next option is dippling a level (Druid) or two (Ranger) This does give you as many castings as you have spell slots (although casting it at a higher level doesn't improve the spell). Now a player sacrificing (a) level(s) in your class just to get a single spell and be really good at it using it.
Ultimately yes, it's a pretty baller, a level 1 spell goes from healing 10 HP to 40 HP, but remember that still requires sacrifcing 10 actions, so it's 4 HP/action. A CR:1/2 skeleton does that 3 damage a round at mininum. Ultimately it's not all that much healing and in a per-turn economy it's not usually a great use of an action unless it's an emergency.
If you sacrifice all your spells for it, it can keep the party going a lot longer then normal, but it's still sub-optimal use in a lot of situations and is still best for out-of-combat healing or avoid a Death Savinging throw. Yes, it will allow the party to adventure for longer then they may otherwise, but is that a bad thing?
Note: My perspective might be used to more high combat games and especially 3.5 where our party kept a "party fund" (all gold was divided by PCs+1, and the +1 went to the fund) for healing and consumables. We collectively bought Wand of Cure Light (market price is 750g) in bundles to constantly to stay topped up.
Yeah I also think its slightly over powered. Well I know what my Clerics going to dip into. Goodberry mmmmm.
It does take an action to eat one berry by the character eating it similar to Potion of Healing which gives greater yield per action.
Short Rests are for more than just healing too.
Thanks for digging up the link - I already read it a while back, but have chosen to ignore it as a poorly thought through clarification (see maths above).
The balance of only eating one berry per action seems a little odd - I dunno about you guys, but I can eat multiple berries at once, unless ..... unless these berries are like each the size of an apple or something! :D
As Jeremy Crawford said, each goodberry worth a day of food, wouldn't be surprise if they have the size of a fist.
I feel that the rules on it are very good. Considering it is clear that 1 berry provides enough nourishment for one adventurer per day, eating more would begin to cause negative effects. Unless you are playing a halfling ;) (Lembas Bread element here.) On that note. The clarification in the link provided in an earlier post mentions :"assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot." Is there an option to cast at higher level? I do not see a source that indicates this anywhere?
I feel that the rules on it are very good. Considering it is clear that 1 berry provides enough nourishment for one adventurer per day, eating more would begin to cause negative effects. Unless you are playing a halfling ;) (Lembas Bread element here.) On that note. The clarification in the link provided in an earlier post mentions :"assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot." Is there an option to cast at higher level? I do not see a source that indicates this anywhere?
Technically, a spell of a certain level can be cast with a spell slot of its level or higher. Goodberry can be cast with 1st level spell slot as well as any other spell slots of higher level. This do not grant any further benefit, though.
Agreed. But it just seems odd that they would bother to mention: "assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot." Why would you cast at 2nd level other than not having a 1st level slot available. No need for them to mention this if that is the case. If there were an increase of healing per level than it should be mentioned. I have begun to notice the redundancy in a few areas of rules and much clarification needed in others.
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I just find that Good Berries are a great way to heal the party after combat or in a emergency situation. I had a Mountain Dwarf Life Cleric that later on took the Magic Initiative feat to get Good Berries. In our campaign we were able to long rest once a day essentially, which is great because Good Berries last 24 hours. For an upkeep of a single level one slot a day I usually have 20 good berries on me. Thanks to being a Life Cleric the healing potency makes each berry heal for 4 HP, 20 x 4 = 80. This simple interaction of the Life Clerics features and Good Berries made the campaign in a blast as we are able to tackle much larger foes. Allowing us to take on bigger risks because we had good berries to fall on.
Long story short: Good Berry is one of my favorite spells as a Life Cleric
I believe it's "up to ten berries" per casting of Goodberry. To me it's too cheesy of a combination and players tend to abuse it. I understand the ruling that it should apply since Goodberry is a spell that restores HP, but the idea that someone is popping more than one in a day just seems wrong. I am a DM who does play food and water rules and for me, since a single berry from the Goodberry spell is meant to feed an individual for a day, I lean towards repercussions if someone eats more than one. Depending on how many someone eats, I would treat it kind of like Thanksgiving day overeating, and give them a CON save vs Exhaustion (level 1) since they removed the Sickened or Nauseated conditions from earlier editions. It's a little less severe than Poisoned, but still makes it more reasonable to me.
Understandable, it does lean towards the cheesy combination but for our personal campaign it seems to work well. Especially since each berry is considered to be a days worth of rations. My DM probably allows it due to a larger party and not much healing capabilities. It is "Up to ten berries" though so it could be limited if it got a bit much at DMs discretion. Can be abused easily by players but it can worked with to make it less exploitable such as over eating or not getting a lot of berries.
I have often thought about trying to use goodberry between fights for healing but there are other feats and spells that offer easy/cheap healing after fights
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Goodberry seems a little overpowered especially at the level my character is at. the spell can get out of hand but it is very useful for it's spell level
"My D&D character is going to be snorting lines of cocaihahahahaha" - UncleTio
I understand that there was an official clarification that the Life Cleric ability "Disciple of Life" adds +3 healing to each berry, but I consider that to be a bad clarification.
Let's compare Goodberry & Cure Wounds.
Goodberry (1st level Druid spell)
10 points of healing.
Cure Wounds (1st level Cleric spell)
Assuming a caster stat bonus of +3, then the 1st level spell Cure Wounds would heal 1d8 +3 for wisdom. Average roll is 5, meaning a total of 8 healing.
That seems fair - Cure Wounds is much more flexible in a fight.
Add in "Disciple of Life" to Cure Wounds and it goes up from 8 healing to 11 healing. That's a 37% increase in effectiveness on an average roll.
So, it would seem reasonable that "Disciple of Life" would give a similar magnitude of bonus on Goodberry, increasing the total healing of the spell by +3. The simplest way to achieve this is to say that the spell now produces 13 berries.
Saying that Goodberry still produces 10 berries, but each one does 4 points of healing now .... that means a 1st level spell is doing 40 healing. It's also a 300% increase in the power of the spell, which goes against the design principles of how the game works imho.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Yes I agree, just few goodberries per day, otherwise is broken.
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/sage-advice/rules-answers-august-2015
Yeah I also think its slightly over powered. Well I know what my Clerics going to dip into. Goodberry mmmmm.
It does take an action to eat one berry by the character eating it similar to Potion of Healing which gives greater yield per action.
Short Rests are for more than just healing too.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Yeah I hear ya Stormknight. I'd say if your a DM and your players are decent enough folk then your table may agree that the healing comes into effect on
Another reason to consider is that the clerics divine power is coming is coming from the deity. The deity is probably willing to give the +3 HP but imagine if all clerics learnt this spell. The Deity would be insanely drained :P
Really, for me it boils down to one specific point. If the build is so overpowering in the difference that everyone follows that path, then it's likely in need of modification. I like the alternatives mentioned like the minor bonus enhanced berries or just adding more berries.
Yeah, as soon as a specific skill or spell becomes, "You must do this, or you are failing" then it's clear that it needs to change, as it eliminates choice.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
The Disciple of Life feature shouldn't apply to Goodberry. (I'm aware the official ruling says otherwise.) The feature says "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level." Goodberry uses your spell to create magical berries. It doesn't directly heal anybody. It's a pedantic distinction, but I think an accurate one. I'd allow the spell to heal 3 more points at 1st level, which would mean more berries. It shouldn't give each berry more healing.
here the sage advice:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/11/discipline-of-goodberry/
I think an easy solution would be eating multiple goodberries at one sitting restores X + 2 + Spell level hp. Where x is the number of goodberries eaten. The feature grants additional hit points, so I think ruling that those additional hit points only apply to the total quantity of goodberries eaten at one time would be a good compromise.
With that said, you can only eat one good berry per action, and gaining 40 hp outside of combat per day at the cost of a level one spell, is really not as bad as far as being overpowered. Unless of course a player is hogging all the goodberries for their own use. It basically might help the party from taking an extended rest rather than a simple short rest as parties are known to want to do. The key is that the op benefit of the goodberries can only occur outside of combat where players could take an extended rest and regain all hitpoints, so I don't think there is any need to worry about it.
Also as a DM if you know your players are getting 40 hp back after an attack, could allow you to also make the upcoming battle a little harder, or the previous battle a little more taxing.
I just don't really understand the big deal, here. I also want to call shenanigans on the one berry per day rule, you'd never put this restriction on a Druid without this ability so I think it's shenanigans to artificially impose one now.
If you had a Druid without this ability would you argue the party can't eat more then 1 day even though it only heals a single HP? If that's true all it's good for is replacing the cost of a ration or reviving someone from Death Saves.
In my current game the Druid (lacks this ability) casts Goodberry once a day at breakfast and every party member gets 2 berries, so if anyone goes down in combat every character has a way to heal every other character. We only have a Paladin and Artificer for healing.
As for the Feat: Goodberry is a Druid/Ranger spell not a Cleric spell. So either you're a 1st level human who is using her Alt-Class feat to cast Goodberry. This gives only a single casting per day unless you also multiclassed in that class. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/)
If you didn't do that then you are taking it in lieu of ability score increases or a different feat. Lets keep perspective on what Feats can accomplish in this edition:
Feats do things like give attacks as Bonus Actions, ignore cover, immune to suprise, etc...
The next option is dippling a level (Druid) or two (Ranger)
This does give you as many castings as you have spell slots (although casting it at a higher level doesn't improve the spell). Now a player sacrificing (a) level(s) in your class just to get a single spell and be really good at it using it.
Ultimately yes, it's a pretty baller, a level 1 spell goes from healing 10 HP to 40 HP, but remember that still requires sacrifcing 10 actions, so it's 4 HP/action. A CR:1/2 skeleton does that 3 damage a round at mininum. Ultimately it's not all that much healing and in a per-turn economy it's not usually a great use of an action unless it's an emergency.
If you sacrifice all your spells for it, it can keep the party going a lot longer then normal, but it's still sub-optimal use in a lot of situations and is still best for out-of-combat healing or avoid a Death Savinging throw. Yes, it will allow the party to adventure for longer then they may otherwise, but is that a bad thing?
Note:
My perspective might be used to more high combat games and especially 3.5 where our party kept a "party fund" (all gold was divided by PCs+1, and the +1 went to the fund) for healing and consumables. We collectively bought Wand of Cure Light (market price is 750g) in bundles to constantly to stay topped up.
I feel that the rules on it are very good. Considering it is clear that 1 berry provides enough nourishment for one adventurer per day, eating more would begin to cause negative effects. Unless you are playing a halfling ;) (Lembas Bread element here.) On that note. The clarification in the link provided in an earlier post mentions :"assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot." Is there an option to cast at higher level? I do not see a source that indicates this anywhere?
Agreed. But it just seems odd that they would bother to mention: "assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot." Why would you cast at 2nd level other than not having a 1st level slot available. No need for them to mention this if that is the case. If there were an increase of healing per level than it should be mentioned. I have begun to notice the redundancy in a few areas of rules and much clarification needed in others.