I picked this class cause the idea of being able to turn into a giant wolf and eat people appealed to me. I wanted Wildshape to be my main focus and power as well as my utility but now… it seems I just want to never play this class ever again.
A few things are beyond my control that soured me on it - our DM doesn’t do “tactical” combat, most enemies just move up to someone and sit there, smacking them. So the idea of battlefield control is nonexistent and pointless. We also started off with amazing stats - I’m level 5 with an 18 in Dex, Wis, Con, and Int. We also got some decent magical items, I have a ring of protection, a cloak of protection and an insignia of claws.
I’m less survivable in wild shape form (ac 13-14 vs 19) , I have overall much better stats than any beast form I could take, and that means I’m relegated to either mediocre damage or spellcasting. If I wanted to be a melee spellcaster I’d have picked Cleric.
With Moon you can use wildshape as temporary HP if that is all you can find to use it for, but that is a LOT in most battles where other players have 5-10 "extra" HP possibility. A Brown Bear is 34 HP, a Dire Wolf 37 HP, a Moorbounder 30 HP.
In addition you can wildshape as a bonus action, which is not the same as other Druids who need to use an action. So you can cast a support, healing or control spell and then wildshape to take a hit, run to the back, or charge into melee. You keep concentration in wildshape form, and since you get two wildshapes, you could do this twice. If you like to double up damage Moonbeam is also great for this.
As a Bear you get two attacks as well, at +6 which is decent, and have other stuff which is cool. Combat is not only about hitting and being hit. A Brown Bear has a climb speed of 30ft, plus great smell based perception. A Dire Wolf has pack tactics, so you can get next to an ally and hit with advantage, plus run at 50ft a turn. A Moorbounder sprints at 70ft!!
I find most of my uses of wildshape are out of combat though, and I use the skills of the animals to be a rogue too, or whatever the party needs. A druid is complex, but fun if you start thinking of the possibilities. A Moon Druid just gives you more and better Wildshape options to use for those ideas.
With Moon you can use wildshape as temporary HP if that is all you can find to use it for, but that is a LOT in most battles where other players have 5-10 "extra" HP possibility. A Brown Bear is 34 HP, a Dire Wolf 37 HP, a Moorbounder 30 HP.
In addition you can wildshape as a bonus action, which is not the same as other Druids who need to use an action. So you can cast a support, healing or control spell and then wildshape to take a hit, run to the back, or charge into melee. You keep concentration in wildshape form, and since you get two wildshapes, you could do this twice. If you like to double up damage Moonbeam is also great for this.
As a Bear you get two attacks as well, at +6 which is decent, and have other stuff which is cool. Combat is not only about hitting and being hit. A Brown Bear has a climb speed of 30ft, plus great smell based perception. A Dire Wolf has pack tactics, so you can get next to an ally and hit with advantage, plus run at 50ft a turn. A Moorbounder srints at 70ft!!
I find most of my uses of wildshape are out of combat though, and I use the skills of the animals to be a rogue too, or whatever the party needs. A druid is complex, but fun if you start thinking of the possibilities. A Moon Druid just gives you more and better Wildshape options to use for those ideas.
so…
Basically be a land Druid, then?
(Nvm that my AC, to-hit, and HP are better than a brown bear - my survivability actually drops significantly)
I picked this class cause the idea of being able to turn into a giant wolf and eat people appealed to me. I wanted Wildshape to be my main focus and power as well as my utility but now… it seems I just want to never play this class ever again.
A few things are beyond my control that soured me on it - our DM doesn’t do “tactical” combat, most enemies just move up to someone and sit there, smacking them. So the idea of battlefield control is nonexistent and pointless. We also started off with amazing stats - I’m level 5 with an 18 in Dex, Wis, Con, and Int. We also got some decent magical items, I have a ring of protection, a cloak of protection and an insignia of claws.
I’m less survivable in wild shape form (ac 13-14 vs 19) , I have overall much better stats than any beast form I could take, and that means I’m relegated to either mediocre damage or spellcasting. If I wanted to be a melee spellcaster I’d have picked Cleric.
what can I do to make wildshape actually *good*?
I mean, yeah rolling for stats is always weird unless you roll close to what you could get with the standard array or points buy.
The DM not being very tactical in combat is truly unfortunate and maybe something to talk about with them considering combat is the main focus of DnD.
As for the wild shape not being very good, it's true that Moon Druids mostly shine at level 1-5 and then feel a bit meh until they get their elemental form. You might be easier to hit in your wild shape but that's fine. It's a huge chunk of additional HP. When your HP in wild shape go to zero you don't go down, you just turn back and then are free to wild shape again into something with a shiny fresh chunk of full HP. Your survivability doesn't drop when you wild shape. You get a whole additional life the enemy has to chew through before they can actually hurt you.
I haven't played a Moon Druid myself yet (someone else always wants to play a Druid and I don't like to double down on classes in a party), but I've heard one of the best things you can do as Moon Druid is to cast Spike Growth or such, wild shape into a bear and then drag them through that area repeatedly.
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I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
low AC and no con proficency means I can’t hold concentration on spells if I’m focused on. But I’m supposed to be this big sponge of HP and great at holding concentration spells for battlefield control?
Nevermind that I don’t want to be a caster. I’d gladly give up every single spell if it meant I could do more with wildshape. I didn’t sign up to be nature wizard - I want to be the feral hunter or the sneaky ferret.
low AC and no con proficency means I can’t hold concentration on spells if I’m focused on. But I’m supposed to be this big sponge of HP and great at holding concentration spells for battlefield control?
Nevermind that I don’t want to be a caster. I’d gladly give up every single spell if it meant I could do more with wildshape. I didn’t sign up to be nature wizard - I want to be the feral hunter or the sneaky ferret.
Then ... get con proficiency? The feats Resilient (CON) and War Caster are a thing you know?
Honestly though, if your issue is that you don't want to be caster then that's on you. The Druid is still a full caster class, Moon Druid or not. You did sign up to be a nature wizard.
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I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
I’ll talk to my DM and see if they’ll let me redo my character to something I will have fun as or dropping the game entirely. Druid is not the class for me to play.
Obvert is correct. Wild shape add the creature’s hp because being reduced to 0 hp simply knocks you out of wild shape. If your problem is concentration, pick a form with high con. Resilient feat is also a good option, as sfpanzer pointed out. If you don’t want to be a caster, then maybe a totem barb was a better option for you. Keeps animal flavor while being good at melee rather than spellcasting.
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Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
It is perfectly acceptable if druid isn’t for you. If you aren’t really interested in being a caster, then you’re certainly not going to enjoy being a druid, even a moon druid.
Even for moon druids, wild shape is only amazing at some levels (2-5, 10-12) and only ok at the others. You really have to be comfortable as a caster to get the most out of a moon druid. Even when wild shape is the best choice, it is only made better by concentrating on something. If you’re absolutely against being a caster, then moon druid sells you the wrong bill of goods.
So what alternatives have you considered? There are beast-like bloodhunter and barbarian subclasses. There is also the shifter race that might pair well with fighters or barbarians.
Obvert is correct. Wild shape add the creature’s hp because being reduced to 0 hp simply knocks you out of wild shape. If your problem is concentration, pick a form with high con. Resilient feat is also a good option, as sfpanzer pointed out. If you don’t want to be a caster, then maybe a totem barb was a better option for you. Keeps animal flavor while being good at melee rather than spellcasting.
Barbarian, especially Totem Warrior is a good call. Ask your DM if you can flavour your rage as partial transformations. The only problem here is that Rage is only a thing for combat, so no sneaking around as ferret or whatever. As race you could also take a look at the Shifter.
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I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Well yeah, nothing is Wild Shape except for Wild Shape. It's a druid exclusive thing. The next best thing is pseudo-lycanthropy, be it via race or via reflavouring things like a Barbarian's Rage feature. Martials don't get all the fun stuff casters get.
Though I guess if your DM is comfortable with it you could homebrew a subclass that gives you wild shaping on a martial class. I just don't see how that would change your disappointment with beasts being easier to kill than your original form, especially since the whole thing would only be worse as martial who are normally more durable than casters anyway.
Moon Druid/Barbarian multiclass builds are a thing as well, though it's kinda clunky since it takes a whole turn to set up the rage + wild shape (you benefit from the resistances even when wild shaped) and it'd be super MAD considering Barbarians need STR, DEX and CON and as Druid you also need WIS.
I don’t know. Something like a monk that can shape change and uses their new shape to fight with? That monks can’t spend ki this way is kind of surprising to me since mastery of one’s body seems a perfect fit!
I looked at Path of the Beast Barbarian but I don’t want to be more tanky and frankly it’s missing out on a lot of the utility I enjoy from being able to wildshape.
I’d even consider dipping Monk if the vast majority of beasts didn’t have terrible dex scores. Or if any of the spells actually made me better as a wild animal outside of Barkskin. It really feels that wild shape in combat boils down to “cast spell, wild shape and hide as your spell just does whatever”.
maybe it’s me. Maybe my desire to be a character is who can use their wolf form to actually fight with is something that isn’t possible in this game.
You missed the whole "I want wildshape to be my focus and utility" part. Shifters cannot become another race. They are can be considered going to anthropomorphic, actually. Beast Barbarians are more primal than them by far.. but even then, they have never felt to be more than one-note "I smash things".
What I want *was* possible pre-5e - we had the Wildshape Ranger option, for example.
There's nothing surprising about Monk's not being able to wild shape. You're correct their stick is mastering their own body, not changing their body to something else for a while. I personally don't know any media where martial artists turn into animals regularly either.
That being said I still don't get why you think you can't fight in your wild shape, but you seem to be very set on that opinion so yeah I agree this is a you problem. You want something that isn't there and you refuse to use what's there. Literally nothing we can do about that apart from telling you homebrewing exists.
I think you may have missed the part about wildshaping with a bonus action. This is huge and the main reason, along with better wildshape forms, as I mentioned above, to chose Moon Druid.
Action economy is much more manageableif you don't HAVE to use a full action to get into wildshape. But to each their own. Be what you want. Just trying to posit some creative possibilities here.
You seem to want to play an animal in your Druid form. Just do that and don't worry about maxing all of the possibilities for it. It is THE BEST WAY to do what you say you want to do. This game is about so much more than your combat abilities though and a Moon Druid allows you to do EVERYTHING you say you want, you just have to be creative.
Do you want Monk abilities in Wildshape; okay, then multiclass a level or two of Monk (choosing how far you need to go to get what you want). This game allows endless possibitlies and if you want to play as a Beast in battle, choose Monk plus any feat that allows you to have the mix you're looking for. That simple. Lots of ideas above. Stop looking for reasons not to like it and look for ways to use it.
Understanding better what you are looking for would be helpful. So far it sounds like you really enjoy the versatility of Wild Shape. For a more martial focused class the only options that come to mind with anything similar are Path of the Beast Barbarian or Rune Knight Fighter.
As for exchanging spell slots for something like Wild Shape there is Polymorph. It's not quite as good since all your features and ability scores are replaced by the chosen form, but you get to pick any beast who's CR is equal to or lower than your level.
As far as multi-classing is concerned the problem with Monk isn't that beasts tend to have poor Dexterity. Monk's can choose to use Strength of they want. It is that a beast's natural weapons aren't usually considered unarmed strikes. Many player races have an exception stating their natural weapons can be used to make unarmed strikes but this is an exception. A DM may choose to treat natural weapons as unarmed strikes though so definitely speak to your DM first.
Barbarian is probably the best martial class to mix in. Path of the Beast gives a good defensive reaction, Path of the Berserker lets you use your bonus action to attack with one of your natural weapons, and Path of the Zealot gives you just straight more damage.
Personally I don't think it is worth multi-classing to enhance Wild Shape's combat viability though because a Druid's spellcasting more than makes up the difference. However if you just don't care about spells then multi-classing is something you can do. Also as Circle of the Moon druid you can dump spell slots to heal your Wildshape form as a bonus action.
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I picked this class cause the idea of being able to turn into a giant wolf and eat people appealed to me. I wanted Wildshape to be my main focus and power as well as my utility but now… it seems I just want to never play this class ever again.
A few things are beyond my control that soured me on it - our DM doesn’t do “tactical” combat, most enemies just move up to someone and sit there, smacking them. So the idea of battlefield control is nonexistent and pointless. We also started off with amazing stats - I’m level 5 with an 18 in Dex, Wis, Con, and Int. We also got some decent magical items, I have a ring of protection, a cloak of protection and an insignia of claws.
I’m less survivable in wild shape form (ac 13-14 vs 19) , I have overall much better stats than any beast form I could take, and that means I’m relegated to either mediocre damage or spellcasting. If I wanted to be a melee spellcaster I’d have picked Cleric.
what can I do to make wildshape actually *good*?
Wildshape is better than "good!"
With Moon you can use wildshape as temporary HP if that is all you can find to use it for, but that is a LOT in most battles where other players have 5-10 "extra" HP possibility. A Brown Bear is 34 HP, a Dire Wolf 37 HP, a Moorbounder 30 HP.
In addition you can wildshape as a bonus action, which is not the same as other Druids who need to use an action. So you can cast a support, healing or control spell and then wildshape to take a hit, run to the back, or charge into melee. You keep concentration in wildshape form, and since you get two wildshapes, you could do this twice. If you like to double up damage Moonbeam is also great for this.
As a Bear you get two attacks as well, at +6 which is decent, and have other stuff which is cool. Combat is not only about hitting and being hit. A Brown Bear has a climb speed of 30ft, plus great smell based perception. A Dire Wolf has pack tactics, so you can get next to an ally and hit with advantage, plus run at 50ft a turn. A Moorbounder sprints at 70ft!!
I find most of my uses of wildshape are out of combat though, and I use the skills of the animals to be a rogue too, or whatever the party needs. A druid is complex, but fun if you start thinking of the possibilities. A Moon Druid just gives you more and better Wildshape options to use for those ideas.
so…
Basically be a land Druid, then?
(Nvm that my AC, to-hit, and HP are better than a brown bear - my survivability actually drops significantly)
I mean, yeah rolling for stats is always weird unless you roll close to what you could get with the standard array or points buy.
The DM not being very tactical in combat is truly unfortunate and maybe something to talk about with them considering combat is the main focus of DnD.
As for the wild shape not being very good, it's true that Moon Druids mostly shine at level 1-5 and then feel a bit meh until they get their elemental form. You might be easier to hit in your wild shape but that's fine. It's a huge chunk of additional HP. When your HP in wild shape go to zero you don't go down, you just turn back and then are free to wild shape again into something with a shiny fresh chunk of full HP. Your survivability doesn't drop when you wild shape. You get a whole additional life the enemy has to chew through before they can actually hurt you.
I haven't played a Moon Druid myself yet (someone else always wants to play a Druid and I don't like to double down on classes in a party), but I've heard one of the best things you can do as Moon Druid is to cast Spike Growth or such, wild shape into a bear and then drag them through that area repeatedly.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
The logic doesn’t connect for me.
low AC and no con proficency means I can’t hold concentration on spells if I’m focused on. But I’m supposed to be this big sponge of HP and great at holding concentration spells for battlefield control?
Nevermind that I don’t want to be a caster. I’d gladly give up every single spell if it meant I could do more with wildshape. I didn’t sign up to be nature wizard - I want to be the feral hunter or the sneaky ferret.
Then ... get con proficiency? The feats Resilient (CON) and War Caster are a thing you know?
Honestly though, if your issue is that you don't want to be caster then that's on you. The Druid is still a full caster class, Moon Druid or not. You did sign up to be a nature wizard.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Fair.
I’ll talk to my DM and see if they’ll let me redo my character to something I will have fun as or dropping the game entirely. Druid is not the class for me to play.
Obvert is correct. Wild shape add the creature’s hp because being reduced to 0 hp simply knocks you out of wild shape. If your problem is concentration, pick a form with high con. Resilient feat is also a good option, as sfpanzer pointed out. If you don’t want to be a caster, then maybe a totem barb was a better option for you. Keeps animal flavor while being good at melee rather than spellcasting.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
It is perfectly acceptable if druid isn’t for you. If you aren’t really interested in being a caster, then you’re certainly not going to enjoy being a druid, even a moon druid.
Even for moon druids, wild shape is only amazing at some levels (2-5, 10-12) and only ok at the others. You really have to be comfortable as a caster to get the most out of a moon druid. Even when wild shape is the best choice, it is only made better by concentrating on something. If you’re absolutely against being a caster, then moon druid sells you the wrong bill of goods.
So what alternatives have you considered? There are beast-like bloodhunter and barbarian subclasses. There is also the shifter race that might pair well with fighters or barbarians.
Barbarian, especially Totem Warrior is a good call. Ask your DM if you can flavour your rage as partial transformations. The only problem here is that Rage is only a thing for combat, so no sneaking around as ferret or whatever. As race you could also take a look at the Shifter.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Animal flavour is not wildshape, sadly. No other class grants that ability at all. It’s Druid or nothing which is what is frustrating
Well yeah, nothing is Wild Shape except for Wild Shape. It's a druid exclusive thing. The next best thing is pseudo-lycanthropy, be it via race or via reflavouring things like a Barbarian's Rage feature. Martials don't get all the fun stuff casters get.
Though I guess if your DM is comfortable with it you could homebrew a subclass that gives you wild shaping on a martial class. I just don't see how that would change your disappointment with beasts being easier to kill than your original form, especially since the whole thing would only be worse as martial who are normally more durable than casters anyway.
Moon Druid/Barbarian multiclass builds are a thing as well, though it's kinda clunky since it takes a whole turn to set up the rage + wild shape (you benefit from the resistances even when wild shaped) and it'd be super MAD considering Barbarians need STR, DEX and CON and as Druid you also need WIS.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Yes, totem rage is not wild shape. It is simply one of the closest things to wild shape a non-caster can get.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
I don’t know. Something like a monk that can shape change and uses their new shape to fight with? That monks can’t spend ki this way is kind of surprising to me since mastery of one’s body seems a perfect fit!
I looked at Path of the Beast Barbarian but I don’t want to be more tanky and frankly it’s missing out on a lot of the utility I enjoy from being able to wildshape.
I’d even consider dipping Monk if the vast majority of beasts didn’t have terrible dex scores. Or if any of the spells actually made me better as a wild animal outside of Barkskin. It really feels that wild shape in combat boils down to “cast spell, wild shape and hide as your spell just does whatever”.
maybe it’s me. Maybe my desire to be a character is who can use their wolf form to actually fight with is something that isn’t possible in this game.
Do not want a caster
Do not want a tank
Want to become a wolf in combat
At that point just play a rogue with the shifter race. It’s most of the intersection between those three things.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
You missed the whole "I want wildshape to be my focus and utility" part. Shifters cannot become another race. They are can be considered going to anthropomorphic, actually. Beast Barbarians are more primal than them by far.. but even then, they have never felt to be more than one-note "I smash things".
What I want *was* possible pre-5e - we had the Wildshape Ranger option, for example.
At that point that’s a you problem. Can’t really help more.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
There's nothing surprising about Monk's not being able to wild shape. You're correct their stick is mastering their own body, not changing their body to something else for a while. I personally don't know any media where martial artists turn into animals regularly either.
That being said I still don't get why you think you can't fight in your wild shape, but you seem to be very set on that opinion so yeah I agree this is a you problem. You want something that isn't there and you refuse to use what's there. Literally nothing we can do about that apart from telling you homebrewing exists.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
I think you may have missed the part about wildshaping with a bonus action. This is huge and the main reason, along with better wildshape forms, as I mentioned above, to chose Moon Druid.
Action economy is much more manageableif you don't HAVE to use a full action to get into wildshape. But to each their own. Be what you want. Just trying to posit some creative possibilities here.
You seem to want to play an animal in your Druid form. Just do that and don't worry about maxing all of the possibilities for it. It is THE BEST WAY to do what you say you want to do. This game is about so much more than your combat abilities though and a Moon Druid allows you to do EVERYTHING you say you want, you just have to be creative.
Do you want Monk abilities in Wildshape; okay, then multiclass a level or two of Monk (choosing how far you need to go to get what you want). This game allows endless possibitlies and if you want to play as a Beast in battle, choose Monk plus any feat that allows you to have the mix you're looking for. That simple. Lots of ideas above. Stop looking for reasons not to like it and look for ways to use it.
Understanding better what you are looking for would be helpful. So far it sounds like you really enjoy the versatility of Wild Shape. For a more martial focused class the only options that come to mind with anything similar are Path of the Beast Barbarian or Rune Knight Fighter.
As for exchanging spell slots for something like Wild Shape there is Polymorph. It's not quite as good since all your features and ability scores are replaced by the chosen form, but you get to pick any beast who's CR is equal to or lower than your level.
As far as multi-classing is concerned the problem with Monk isn't that beasts tend to have poor Dexterity. Monk's can choose to use Strength of they want. It is that a beast's natural weapons aren't usually considered unarmed strikes. Many player races have an exception stating their natural weapons can be used to make unarmed strikes but this is an exception. A DM may choose to treat natural weapons as unarmed strikes though so definitely speak to your DM first.
Barbarian is probably the best martial class to mix in. Path of the Beast gives a good defensive reaction, Path of the Berserker lets you use your bonus action to attack with one of your natural weapons, and Path of the Zealot gives you just straight more damage.
Personally I don't think it is worth multi-classing to enhance Wild Shape's combat viability though because a Druid's spellcasting more than makes up the difference. However if you just don't care about spells then multi-classing is something you can do. Also as Circle of the Moon druid you can dump spell slots to heal your Wildshape form as a bonus action.