I was playing a session a few nights ago and i used Thunderwave which state
On a failed save, a creature takes 2d8 thunder damage and is pushed 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn’t pushed.
The DM claimed a natural 20 mean succesful but i stated even with a succesful save you take half damage, they stated not with a natural 20.
So now my question is does a natural saving 20 make the Thunderwave completely null and void? Was this the right call, if so does that mean at higher levels of Thunderwave its uneffective if a natural 20 is rolled?
I don't believe you can "crit" on Saving Throws (that is, a natural 20 would pass only if 20 plus your bonus is equal to or over the Spell Save DC), but even then, barring a house rule, it would not negate full damage on a spell that states it does half damage on a successful save.
Then again, your DM is the last word on any rulings, and they are well within their rights to introduce such a house rule. In the interest of fairness, though, the same should apply when the player characters roll 20 on their saving throws!
As far as the rules go, natural 20 on a saving throw has no additional effect other than you rolled well. In fact, rolling a natural 20 doesn't even guarantee a success if the difficulty is high enough. If a creature with a dex bonus of -1 was trying to make a DC:20 dex saving throw and rolled a natural 20, it would give a score of 19 and they would still have failed the saving throw, even though they rolled the natural 20.
As Filcat mentions above, there is an optional rule in the official books, that allows for 20 to be an automatic success, but it still yields only the normal results of succeeding that saving throw.
The DM you're playing with is using homebrew rules, which is fine and many people do this, but I urge you to get them to clarify exactly what their homebrew rules are before play, so that everyone around the table knows.
Homebrews and house rules should ALWAYS be stated before play. The DM might have the final say on a ruling, but it's not their game, it's everyone at the table's game. so make sue you ask them if they made that decision, it relates to PCs as well.
So just a question for those with more knowledge.
I was playing a session a few nights ago and i used Thunderwave which state
On a failed save, a creature takes 2d8 thunder damage and is pushed 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn’t pushed.
The DM claimed a natural 20 mean succesful but i stated even with a succesful save you take half damage, they stated not with a natural 20.
So now my question is does a natural saving 20 make the Thunderwave completely null and void? Was this the right call, if so does that mean at higher levels of Thunderwave its uneffective if a natural 20 is rolled?
Where does Crit and Botched rolls stop?
I don't believe you can "crit" on Saving Throws (that is, a natural 20 would pass only if 20 plus your bonus is equal to or over the Spell Save DC), but even then, barring a house rule, it would not negate full damage on a spell that states it does half damage on a successful save.
Then again, your DM is the last word on any rulings, and they are well within their rights to introduce such a house rule. In the interest of fairness, though, the same should apply when the player characters roll 20 on their saving throws!
Following the rule in the PHB, no, it does not work that way.
The homebrew rule for saving throws and skill checks says that with a natural 20 you succeed, with a natural 1 you fail, regardless of the modifier.
Still, with a natural 20 against Thunderwave, the target should take half the damage and it is not pushed.
As far as the rules go, natural 20 on a saving throw has no additional effect other than you rolled well. In fact, rolling a natural 20 doesn't even guarantee a success if the difficulty is high enough. If a creature with a dex bonus of -1 was trying to make a DC:20 dex saving throw and rolled a natural 20, it would give a score of 19 and they would still have failed the saving throw, even though they rolled the natural 20.
As Filcat mentions above, there is an optional rule in the official books, that allows for 20 to be an automatic success, but it still yields only the normal results of succeeding that saving throw.
The DM you're playing with is using homebrew rules, which is fine and many people do this, but I urge you to get them to clarify exactly what their homebrew rules are before play, so that everyone around the table knows.
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"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Thanks for this fast response you guy! <3
I understand hombrew games are weird but I feel like there should still be a skeleton of the classic D&D rules on certain things.
Much love all, thanks again.
Homebrews and house rules should ALWAYS be stated before play. The DM might have the final say on a ruling, but it's not their game, it's everyone at the table's game. so make sue you ask them if they made that decision, it relates to PCs as well.
Item's - Sashelas' Spear, Thunder Beads, Diadem of the Owl, Bag of Stasis
Race - Fey-Touched
Subclass - Circle of Vitality
Monsters - Blood Bear
Spell - Arcbolt