Bonus action used for Manifest Echo i.e. create the echo Attack action = 4 attacks Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location Action Surge for another Attack action = 4 attacks Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location
Total = 10 attacks.
Huh? 30 attacks?
Level 20 Echo Knight...
Bonus action used for Manifest Echo i.e. create the echo Attack action = 4 attacks Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location Action Surge for another Attack action = 4 attacks Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location
Total = 10 attacks.
First, your bonus action has to be used to make the echo, so you don't have it for an attack. I think our assumption for almost the entirety of this thread is both classes starting from scratch. This is to the benefit of the fighter, since a 20 wizard with prep time would be almost certainly unbeatable.
Second, you only get one bonus action per turn. Action Surge gives you another action, not bonus action. So even if you had your Echo out already, it would only be one more weapon attack with your bonus action.
Third, your Echo doesn't get to take another full Attack action. You can either make one of your four attacks from it's location using Manifest Echo or make one additional melee attack from it's location using Unleash Incarnation. That's it. Echo Knight will get two more attacks because of Unleashed Incarnation, but lose one attack by having to use the bonus action to create the Echo. On net, it's 10 attacks for EK vs 9 attacks for regular fighter utilizing their bonus action for an attack.
I think I did all this right, but if I did something wrong...I know I will hear it with this group! ;)
Bonus action used for Manifest Echo i.e. create the echo Attack action = 4 attacks Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location Action Surge for another Attack action = 4 attacks Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location
Total = 10 attacks.
I thought that the Echo Knight could make one attack from the Echo's position, for every attack that they made. And then I did not think about the bonus action to summon the Echos.
So, by my count, now it is
Bonus action to create the Echo
Attack Action= 4 Attacks
Action Surge=4 More Attacks
Unleash Incarnation=8 Attacks from each Echo.
Correct me If that's not how it works, but otherwise, I think that brings the attacks up to 24, what I said could happen RAW, in the beginning.
hI thought that the Echo Knight could make one attack from the Echo's position, for every attack that they made. And then I did not think about the bonus action to summon the Echos.
So, by my count, now it is
Bonus action to create the Echo
Attack Action= 4 Attacks
Action Surge=4 More Attacks
Unleash Incarnation=8 Attacks from each Echo.
Correct me If that's not how it works, but otherwise, I think that brings the attacks up to 24, what I said could happen RAW, in the beginning.
Answer: Not RAW but a misinterpretation/misreading of RAW. See Echo Knights Unleash Incarnate one more time:
”Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional melee attack from the echo's position.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (a minimum of once).”
I bolded what you need to see. So if you read the feature correctly you see that you get ONE additional attack from the echo’s position for every ATTACK ACTION the key word being action since attacks and the attack action are two different things.
The best you could attempt to argue is that the Echo Knight get 12 attacks in total:
Bonus Action: Manifest Echo; 2 Echos
Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
Action Surge: Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
But since Unleash Incarnate reads as “one additional melee attack from the echo's position” you’d be hard pressed to say it gives two attacks.
EDIT: I accidentally posted this before I finished so that is why it is edited so much…
hI thought that the Echo Knight could make one attack from the Echo's position, for every attack that they made. And then I did not think about the bonus action to summon the Echos.
So, by my count, now it is
Bonus action to create the Echo
Attack Action= 4 Attacks
Action Surge=4 More Attacks
Unleash Incarnation=8 Attacks from each Echo.
Correct me If that's not how it works, but otherwise, I think that brings the attacks up to 24, what I said could happen RAW, in the beginning.
Answer: Not RAW but a misinterpretation/misreading of RAW. See Echo Knights Unleash Incarnate one more time:
”Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional melee attack from the echo's position.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (a minimum of once).”
I bolded what you need to see. So if you read the feature correctly you see that you get ONE additional attack from the echo’s position for every ATTACK ACTION the key word being action since attacks and the attack action are two different things.
The best you could attempt to argue is that the Echo Knight get 12 attacks in total:
Bonus Action: Manifest Echo; 2 Echos
Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
Action Surge: Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
But since Unleash Incarnate reads as “one additional melee attack from the echo's position” you’d be hard pressed to say it gives two attacks.
EDIT: I accidentally posted this before I finished so that is why it is edited so much…
hI thought that the Echo Knight could make one attack from the Echo's position, for every attack that they made. And then I did not think about the bonus action to summon the Echos.
So, by my count, now it is
Bonus action to create the Echo
Attack Action= 4 Attacks
Action Surge=4 More Attacks
Unleash Incarnation=8 Attacks from each Echo.
Correct me If that's not how it works, but otherwise, I think that brings the attacks up to 24, what I said could happen RAW, in the beginning.
Answer: Not RAW but a misinterpretation/misreading of RAW. See Echo Knights Unleash Incarnate one more time:
”Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional melee attack from the echo's position.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (a minimum of once).”
I bolded what you need to see. So if you read the feature correctly you see that you get ONE additional attack from the echo’s position for every ATTACK ACTION the key word being action since attacks and the attack action are two different things.
The best you could attempt to argue is that the Echo Knight get 12 attacks in total:
Bonus Action: Manifest Echo; 2 Echos
Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
Action Surge: Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
But since Unleash Incarnate reads as “one additional melee attack from the echo's position” you’d be hard pressed to say it gives two attacks.
EDIT: I accidentally posted this before I finished so that is why it is edited so much…
Agreed. Unleashed Incarnation is one additional melee attack and doesn't change with your number of Echos imo. You may have two Echos, but that's still only one more attack with Unleashed Incarnation, when you take the Attack action. You can choose which Echo position to attack from, but Unleashed Incarnation gives you one additional attack, not two additional attacks. This is how I interpret it and...echo'd (lol) by Matt Mercer, who created the class.
Where the wizard gets their own, trapped fortress guarded by as many casters (magen) and a potentially infinite health homunculus with several powerful skeletons and a clone back up in their second castle.
Caster-Martial divide anyone?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
This thread died long ago, and some things should stay dead. Don’t bring it back. I don’t know why I’m still subscribed to it.
And the reason this thread died was because nothing could stop the chronurgist, which could say it goes first and then say the fighter fails the save on (insert horrible spell here). Wish is a terrible argument unless it’s replicating a different class spell because the dm can just say no to it, and something reliant on a nice dm isn’t really good for this type of thing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Huh? 30 attacks?
Level 20 Echo Knight...
Bonus action used for Manifest Echo i.e. create the echo
Attack action = 4 attacks
Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location
Action Surge for another Attack action = 4 attacks
Unleash Incarnation = 1 additional melee attack from Echo's location
Total = 10 attacks.
I thought that the Echo Knight could make one attack from the Echo's position, for every attack that they made. And then I did not think about the bonus action to summon the Echos.
So, by my count, now it is
Bonus action to create the Echo
Attack Action= 4 Attacks
Action Surge=4 More Attacks
Unleash Incarnation=8 Attacks from each Echo.
Correct me If that's not how it works, but otherwise, I think that brings the attacks up to 24, what I said could happen RAW, in the beginning.
Answer: Not RAW but a misinterpretation/misreading of RAW. See Echo Knights Unleash Incarnate one more time:
”Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional melee attack from the echo's position.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (a minimum of once).”
I bolded what you need to see. So if you read the feature correctly you see that you get ONE additional attack from the echo’s position for every ATTACK ACTION the key word being action since attacks and the attack action are two different things.
The best you could attempt to argue is that the Echo Knight get 12 attacks in total:
Bonus Action: Manifest Echo; 2 Echos
Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
Action Surge: Action: Attack Action; 4 Attacks
Unleash Incarnation: 2 Attacks (2 Echos)
But since Unleash Incarnate reads as “one additional melee attack from the echo's position” you’d be hard pressed to say it gives two attacks.
EDIT: I accidentally posted this before I finished so that is why it is edited so much…
Ok, I misread, and I apologize.
Agreed. Unleashed Incarnation is one additional melee attack and doesn't change with your number of Echos imo. You may have two Echos, but that's still only one more attack with Unleashed Incarnation, when you take the Attack action. You can choose which Echo position to attack from, but Unleashed Incarnation gives you one additional attack, not two additional attacks. This is how I interpret it and...echo'd (lol) by Matt Mercer, who created the class.
Echo Knight: Can all Unleash Incarnation charges be used in a single turn? (sageadvice.eu)
Seriously though, this is a silly question. Wizard uses wish, Fighter dies, the end. or this
https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/wizard/subclasses/necromancy/
Where the wizard gets their own, trapped fortress guarded by as many casters (magen) and a potentially infinite health homunculus with several powerful skeletons and a clone back up in their second castle.
Caster-Martial divide anyone?
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
This thread died long ago, and some things should stay dead. Don’t bring it back. I don’t know why I’m still subscribed to it.
And the reason this thread died was because nothing could stop the chronurgist, which could say it goes first and then say the fighter fails the save on (insert horrible spell here). Wish is a terrible argument unless it’s replicating a different class spell because the dm can just say no to it, and something reliant on a nice dm isn’t really good for this type of thing.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands