An Echo Knight FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)

Would the check to see if you are more than 30ft away at end of turn happen before or after the blink check? Does it matter? Does the Ethereal plane count as being more than 30ft away?

Quote from Tanquinoz >>

Would the check to see if you are more than 30ft away at end of turn happen before or after the blink check? Does it matter? Does the Ethereal plane count as being more than 30ft away?

These two things are simultaneous, which means the general rule on Simultaneous Effects would apply. Essentially, whoever's turn it is gets to decide which order these things happen in. In this case, it's your turn, so you decide.

Due to the way the Ethereal Plane is described (as sort of overlapping the Material Plane) I'd be inclined to rule that being there doesn't necessarily count as more than 30 feet away.

Has somebody tried to port the Echo Knight to 2024 rules with a more streamlined and easier to understand ruleset?

I am catching up so just learning about several species / class-subclasses that were really popular for many years.

Just realized that the Echo is immune to Hunger of Hadar which is pretty awesome in the control focused party I am trying to build.

The character with the Echo will be an Armorer Artificer Multi-classed into Echo Knight to provide maximum pushing potential to shove enemies into AoEs. So Echo can move into HoH (with character on the outskirts) and they can collectively use Sentinel feat to take OA attacks and stop creatures from escaping from HoH.

This is a cool idea, though I'm  not sure if characters outside of Hunger of Hadar can see into it. Characters inside are blinded by default too, though an Echo has no senses of its own, so this may be less of an issue overall.

Crucially though, as an Echo Knight, line of sight to your Echo is essential for manifesting it, or attacking from it's position, including attacks of opportunity (ie. Your Sentinel attack from inside the 20' HoH spell area). In fact, much that a Knight can do with their Echo requires line of sight, from the Knight's position to the Echo's, and also the Knight to the target of an Echo attack. Notable exceptions include the Teleport Knight-Echo switcheroo, and moving the Echo. Neither of which require line of sight, RAW.

Also, if the Knight can't see the target, I don't believe they can attack it with with the Echo either.

Arguably, and depending on if you're casting the 2014 or 2024 version, the darkness created by HoH could well be ruled as magical too. For your Knight to see into that, will require Devils Sight, or possibly Blind Fighting, to see both your Echo, and the target.

Just a thought at any rate, but otherwise it sounds like a really mean combo. Good luck with it! 

Quote from completelynormal >>

Also, if the Knight can't see the target, I don't believe they can attack it with with the Echo either.

Yeah, this is clarified in the FAQ post itself and has been noted several times further on in the thread. The Echo is not a creature, so it doesn't have its own senses and can't help the Fighter see things the Fighter couldn't otherwise see. And the Echo is not attacking, the Fighter is, so whether the Fighter can see the target is what matters.

Not being able to see the target doesn't mean you can't attack it, but the attack would have disadvantage.

Quote from completelynormal >>

This is a cool idea, though I'm  not sure if characters outside of Hunger of Hadar can see into it. Characters inside are blinded by default too, though an Echo has no senses of its own, so this may be less of an issue overall.

Crucially though, as an Echo Knight, line of sight to your Echo is essential for manifesting it, or attacking from it's position, including attacks of opportunity (ie. Your Sentinel attack from inside the 20' HoH spell area). In fact, much that a Knight can do with their Echo requires line of sight, from the Knight's position to the Echo's, and also the Knight to the target of an Echo attack. Notable exceptions include the Teleport Knight-Echo switcheroo, and moving the Echo. Neither of which require line of sight, RAW.

Also, if the Knight can't see the target, I don't believe they can attack it with with the Echo either.

Arguably, and depending on if you're casting the 2014 or 2024 version, the darkness created by HoH could well be ruled as magical too. For your Knight to see into that, will require Devils Sight, or possibly Blind Fighting, to see both your Echo, and the target.

Just a thought at any rate, but otherwise it sounds like a really mean combo. Good luck with it! 

Yes, understood about Echo being an object and having no senses of its own. In this case that is a big benefit.

Hunger of Hadar - "A 20-foot-radius Sphere of Darkness appears, centered on a point within range and lasting for the duration...No light, magical or otherwise, can illuminate the area, and creatures fully within it have the Blinded condition."

Darkvision - "If you have Darkvision, you can see in Dim Light within a specified range as if it were Bright Light and in Darkness within that range as if it were Dim Light. You discern colors in that Darkness only as shades of gray."

RAW - Darkvision can see in / through Darkness (it is only the Darkness spell that explicitly says that Darkvision does not work inside its AoE) and you are only blinded by HoH if you are inside of the AoE So if you have Darkvision, Devil's Sight, or Blindsight and stay outside of HoH you should be able to see into HoH from outside of it.

You can cast a cantrip through an echo. Youd have to be a wizard/bladesinger multiclassing with a fighter/echo knight. Because you would take an attack action, and one of your "extra attacks" that you gain later can be replaced with a cantrip. Under the echo knight section. it states "

• When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo's space. You make this choice for each attack
  
  So yes, you can cast cantrips from your echo if you play a class where you can replace an extra attack in your "attack" action with a cantrip as long as the cantrip is considered an attack.

Quote from V0XHOUND >>

You can cast a cantrip through an echo. Youd have to be an eldrich knight or bladesinger. Because you would take an attack action, and one of your "extra attacks" that you gain later can be replaced with a cantrip. Under the echo knight section. it states "

• When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo's space. You make this choice for each attack
  
  So yes, you can cast cantrips and spells from your echo if you play a class where you can replace an extra attack with a cantrip or a magic spell as long as it is considered an attack under the "attack" action and not the "magic" action.

Well, you can't be an Eldritch Knight and an Echo Knight at the same time, but I think that would work if you are a Bladesinger Wizard or a Valor Bard with the appropriate feature. However, I think one could argue that it would be limited to spells that are actually attacks. (The Echo Knight feature says "any attack you make" can originate from the echo's space, so spells that don't involve an attack wouldn't qualify, even if you can replace an attack with them via one of those subclass features.)

The reality is that this subclass is fairly half-baked from a mechanical perspective, likely because it's third-party content that wasn't subject to the same level of editorial scrutiny that official content is, and this probably wasn't an intended use of this feature. But it does seem like it would work to a certain extent under the rules as written.

I’ve heard a lot of good things about multi-classing Path of the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian with the Echo Knight Fighter. …I’ve also heard after I dipped into fighter at Barbarian level 8 that Echo Knight is ridiculously complicated. I spoke with my DM, and he asked me to please continue with this character, so here I am.

Any advice would be welcome. We’re playing under 2024 rules.

Quote from Actionsparda >>

I’ve heard a lot of good things about multi-classing Path of the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian with the Echo Knight Fighter. …I’ve also heard after I dipped into fighter at Barbarian level 8 that Echo Knight is ridiculously complicated. I spoke with my DM, and he asked me to please continue with this character, so here I am.

Any advice would be welcome. We’re playing under 2024 rules.

 Echo Knight is a walking edge case, as you can see by this 50-page discussion about how it’s meant to work. I’d go over the way you think it works, and have an out-of-game conversation with your DM so both of you can agree how it works. And expect lots of rulings from your DM.

Quote from Xalthu >>

Quote from Actionsparda >>

I’ve heard a lot of good things about multi-classing Path of the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian with the Echo Knight Fighter. …I’ve also heard after I dipped into fighter at Barbarian level 8 that Echo Knight is ridiculously complicated. I spoke with my DM, and he asked me to please continue with this character, so here I am.

Any advice would be welcome. We’re playing under 2024 rules.

 Echo Knight is a walking edge case, as you can see by this 50-page discussion about how it’s meant to work. I’d go over the way you think it works, and have an out-of-game conversation with your DM so both of you can agree how it works. And expect lots of rulings from your DM.

 Ok I guess. The whole group gets pretty busy on non-game days, but I’ll try and see what I can get out of him on game day. Thanks!