I was reading the PHB the other day and noticed this n page 147 under the Ammunition subheading: “If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.”
On page 148 under Improvised Weapons it says: “If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage.”
And I was reading the Kensei entry and I wondered:
If I could choose “Improvised Weapons” as my melee Kensei weapon?
Would it be a feasible idea to use a Longbow as both Kensei weapons in that case?
What are your thoughts on the subject? Thanks in advance.
Because improvised weapons don’t fit into either ranged or melee categories I would assume no but it’s a fuzzy one in terms of your DMs approval.
Tavern Brawler is the only way I know of to get Improvised Weapon proficiency... which with the Bow as a Kensei weapon... technically you should be able to use your Martial Arts Die as the damage die no matter how you use it - but would need the feat to add damage bonus.
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Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you. Many of this tradition’s features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon — either melee or ranged — to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you. Many of this tradition’s features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon — either melee or ranged — to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
The answer seems to be in your citation already. Improvised weapons are not simple or martial weapons. Considering that improvised weapons are a broad category that ranges from a creature's corpse to using a bow as a melee weapon to a table or chair it doesn't make sense to have the entirety of that category as a kensei weapon as that would be akin to allowing "all martial weapons" to be your melee choice.
See, I think that an improvised weapon proficiency allows you to do some very powerful and sneaky things, especially if literally anything at hand is a monk weapon. Improvised weapons let you use the weapon profile of any weapon, including martial weapons... including the ones that you can't make into Kensei weapons.
However, if you are just trying to make use of a bow in melee then yeah you should get a lot more leeway
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
See, I think that an improvised weapon proficiency allows you to do some very powerful and sneaky things, especially if literally anything at hand is a monk weapon....
Ever seen a Jackie Chan movie? Now I wanna do that as a specific thing!!
See, I think that an improvised weapon proficiency allows you to do some very powerful and sneaky things, especially if literally anything at hand is a monk weapon....
Ever seen a Jackie Chan movie? Now I wanna do that as a specific thing!!
:)
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Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
See, I think that an improvised weapon proficiency allows you to do some very powerful and sneaky things, especially if literally anything at hand is a monk weapon....
Ever seen a Jackie Chan movie? Now I wanna do that as a specific thing!!
Hmmm, yeah I like it and seems balanced since you made only a few tweaks from Kensei, I had a couple of questions:
1. Chan? As in small or cute?
2. Improvised Shot. You don’t need to say about the option of using the martial arts die as you have already made all improvised weapons proficient and monk weapons... but my actual question with being able to throw 4 improvised weapons by level 5 with this ability... don’t you only get 1 free interaction a turn to pick stuff up? (If it were a stack of plates or something I can understand... but you could go around the battlefield picking up four different things between movement, aiming and throwing... which seems like it would take longer than 6 seconds)
...what would be so fun with this though would be to go Monk 5 Artificer 2 and have a shield as your Improvised Weapon (which as a monk weapon now escapes the restriction...?) but either way it allows you to become Captain America throwing you mighty Returning shield. (You would have to drop the shield at the end of your turns if you wanted unarmed defence... hmmm)
Hmmm, yeah I like it and seems balanced since you made only a few tweaks from Kensei, I had a couple of questions:
1. Chan? As in small or cute?
2. Improvised Shot. You don’t need to say about the option of using the martial arts die as you have already made all improvised weapons proficient and monk weapons... but my actual question with being able to throw 4 improvised weapons by level 5 with this ability... don’t you only get 1 free interaction a turn to pick stuff up? (If it were a stack of plates or something I can understand... but you could go around the battlefield picking up four different things between movement, aiming and throwing... which seems like it would take longer than 6 seconds)
...what would be so fun with this though would be to go Monk 5 Artificer 2 and have a shield as your Improvised Weapon (which as a monk weapon now escapes the restriction...?) but either way it allows you to become Captain America throwing you mighty Returning shield. (You would have to drop the shield at the end of your turns if you wanted unarmed defence... hmmm)
2) I realize that, I had left that line in to make sure it was unambiguous, but I could remove it. Yes, normally a character can only use one free item interaction/turn. The Way of the Chan gets a second free item interaction at 6th level with the Pick it up Quick subclass feature. I was going to give 1/Attack, but that felt OP, so I just gave the 1 extra. Is that balanced in your opinion?
3) A shield would also mess with Unarmed Movement. But the 3rd level subclass feature Improvised Parry potentially turns anything into a shield.
...what would be so fun with this though would be to go Monk 5 Artificer 2 and have a shield as your Improvised Weapon (which as a monk weapon now escapes the restriction...?) but either way it allows you to become Captain America throwing you mighty Returning shield. (You would have to drop the shield at the end of your turns if you wanted unarmed defence... hmmm)
You could always give your Artificer a feat similar to this home brew I made a while back.
...what would be so fun with this though would be to go Monk 5 Artificer 2 and have a shield as your Improvised Weapon (which as a monk weapon now escapes the restriction...?) but either way it allows you to become Captain America throwing you mighty Returning shield. (You would have to drop the shield at the end of your turns if you wanted unarmed defence... hmmm)
You could always give your Artificer a feat similar to this home brew I made a while back.
Cool feat.
Have you ever considered adding a 'returning-weapon' style property when throwing a shield? It could be awesome sauce, and wouldn't exactly break the feat. Indeed, if anything, the feat seems a little underpowered?
Idk. Tell me what you think:)
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Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
Thanks! That’s what Cheeky_Hamster was talking about. My feat gives Shields the Heavy property so it can stack with Great Weapon Master. I don’t think that’s underpowered at all.
You could ask your DM for something like the Gwa'thern Faln. It's a +1 longbow that can also be used as a +1 quarterstaff and it's only available in DDHC-MORD-01.
Thanks! That’s what Cheeky_Hamster was talking about. My feat gives Shields the Heavy property so it can stack with Great Weapon Master. I don’t think that’s underpowered at all.
Why do you feel it is underpowered?
Ok, that wasn't fair of me.
I don't find that it is underpowered, but I don't think it would make it overpowered to add a returning property (Also, I hadn't thought of it + GWM).
For the record, I love this feat. It would make a nice addition to the PHB:)
I was reading the PHB the other day and noticed this n page 147 under the Ammunition subheading: “If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.”
On page 148 under Improvised Weapons it says: “If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage.”
And I was reading the Kensei entry and I wondered:
What are your thoughts on the subject? Thanks in advance.
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Because improvised weapons don’t fit into either ranged or melee categories I would assume no but it’s a fuzzy one in terms of your DMs approval.
Tavern Brawler is the only way I know of to get Improvised Weapon proficiency... which with the Bow as a Kensei weapon... technically you should be able to use your Martial Arts Die as the damage die no matter how you use it - but would need the feat to add damage bonus.
Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you. Many of this tradition’s features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon — either melee or ranged — to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
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The answer seems to be in your citation already. Improvised weapons are not simple or martial weapons. Considering that improvised weapons are a broad category that ranges from a creature's corpse to using a bow as a melee weapon to a table or chair it doesn't make sense to have the entirety of that category as a kensei weapon as that would be akin to allowing "all martial weapons" to be your melee choice.
That’s a bummer. I was hoping that would work. It seemed like a cool idea. Kind of the way Arrow uses his bow in melee.
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If your DM agrees, I don't see how making improvised weapons count as simple weapons would break the game. It is a cool idea as well:)
Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
Thank you! I was hoping someone besides me might see it that way. There’s hope for her yet! (her=Lelia, a Wood Elf Kensei I was considering.)
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See, I think that an improvised weapon proficiency allows you to do some very powerful and sneaky things, especially if literally anything at hand is a monk weapon. Improvised weapons let you use the weapon profile of any weapon, including martial weapons... including the ones that you can't make into Kensei weapons.
However, if you are just trying to make use of a bow in melee then yeah you should get a lot more leeway
Ever seen a Jackie Chan movie? Now I wanna do that as a specific thing!!
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:)
Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
What do you think about The Way of the Chan?
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Hmmm, yeah I like it and seems balanced since you made only a few tweaks from Kensei, I had a couple of questions:
1. Chan? As in small or cute?
2. Improvised Shot. You don’t need to say about the option of using the martial arts die as you have already made all improvised weapons proficient and monk weapons... but my actual question with being able to throw 4 improvised weapons by level 5 with this ability... don’t you only get 1 free interaction a turn to pick stuff up? (If it were a stack of plates or something I can understand... but you could go around the battlefield picking up four different things between movement, aiming and throwing... which seems like it would take longer than 6 seconds)
...what would be so fun with this though would be to go Monk 5 Artificer 2 and have a shield as your Improvised Weapon (which as a monk weapon now escapes the restriction...?) but either way it allows you to become Captain America throwing you mighty Returning shield. (You would have to drop the shield at the end of your turns if you wanted unarmed defence... hmmm)
1) Chan as in Jackie, lol.
2) I realize that, I had left that line in to make sure it was unambiguous, but I could remove it. Yes, normally a character can only use one free item interaction/turn. The Way of the Chan gets a second free item interaction at 6th level with the Pick it up Quick subclass feature. I was going to give 1/Attack, but that felt OP, so I just gave the 1 extra. Is that balanced in your opinion?
3) A shield would also mess with Unarmed Movement. But the 3rd level subclass feature Improvised Parry potentially turns anything into a shield.
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You could always give your Artificer a feat similar to this home brew I made a while back.
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Cool feat.
Have you ever considered adding a 'returning-weapon' style property when throwing a shield? It could be awesome sauce, and wouldn't exactly break the feat. Indeed, if anything, the feat seems a little underpowered?
Idk. Tell me what you think:)
Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
Thanks! That’s what Cheeky_Hamster was talking about. My feat gives Shields the Heavy property so it can stack with Great Weapon Master. I don’t think that’s underpowered at all.
Why do you feel it is underpowered?
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You could ask your DM for something like the Gwa'thern Faln. It's a +1 longbow that can also be used as a +1 quarterstaff and it's only available in DDHC-MORD-01.
Thank you. Please pardon my ignorance, but available in what??
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It's an Adventurers League adventure called Riddle of the Raven Queen.
Ok, that wasn't fair of me.
I don't find that it is underpowered, but I don't think it would make it overpowered to add a returning property (Also, I hadn't thought of it + GWM).
For the record, I love this feat. It would make a nice addition to the PHB:)
Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)