While playing my monk, I realized that when fighting, I turn into a mindless killing machine. So now I am thinking about taking some levels in Barbarian. Do you think that would work and be strong?
I'd say it's possible. I'm sure it could be powerful, but it will probably still be sub-optimal.
Remember, Monk is *VERY* class level dependent. Any deviation from monk has to be characterful or very useful because Monk's get huge amounts of their power from their level.
Level Determines the following features:
Ki Point Total
Unarmored Movement
Martial Arts die size
Deflect Missile damage avoidance
Slow Fall max
Benefits/Cons:
+1 Rage: is bonus damage per hit, Monks have a lot of attacks with less damage.
-1 Rage: only works off of Strength, Monks often benefit from high Dex as it increases hit, damage, AC, and init, a Barbarian Monk would need? Dex/Con? and Str? that's pretty MAD. (Multiple Attribute Dependent)
-1 Unarmored Defense: p164 says once you have the feature you can't gain it from another class. I think it's dumb because I think they are different features... but that's the RAW. So once you gain either Monk or Barbarian you don't get the other, 1st level better be in the best.
+1 Hit Dice: 1d12 HP, especially at lvl 1 when you're guaranteed max that's pretty baller.
+0: martial weapons aren't monk weapons so all the weapons and armor proficiencies are pointless
+0 Reckless Attack is pretty cool, especially when you can "Step the Wind: Dodge" to counter it, but then you're not maxing your attacks, with Mobility this gets better but that's true of anyone.
+1 Danger Sense plus Evasion at 7th lvl Monk is amazing... but that's at 9th level.
+1 Primal Paths are almost all cool, avoid Berserker as you have it but better.
-1 5th level Barbarian and 5th level Monk both have Extra Attack, so that's a dead level
It could be a cool character, but I think it will be sub-optimal to a pure monk or other better optimized m.classes
In my current campaign I am playing a Barbarian/Monk and I will say while I feel lacking in the damage department, with the odd mixture of abilities there are things I can do that no one else can, mainly in tanking and control.
The way that a barbarian rage works with martial arts and ki abilities are quite unique, I can grapple up to two enemies at once and still get a round of attacks on them while the only PC they can attack is me or attempt to break my grapple (They would be the first). Then when the caster decides to fireball them my hit points and resistance make sure I stay up, while the ones I'm grappling go limp.
I will mention our campaign is only now getting to the mid levels, so currently I am Barbarian 4/Monk 2. So there are things that could stagnate at higher levels but personally I am looking forward to the progression and seeing the weird thing I can do. Also I did start as Barbarian and the first Monk level was weak until I swapped to the more controlling fighting style.
I have a Barb 4/Monk 8, and he's been very useful. The party he plays in the most tends to not have actual fighters much of the time (usually just 2 rangers), so the ability to absorb more damage has been useful at keeping him and everyone else alive. Plus the resistances to everything but psychic damage have been crucial in some encounters with spell casters and giants. Basically he's built that way to be more survivable.
I currently run a Goliath Monk 6/Barbarian 1/Rogue 1. Stone Fist is lvl 8 with 63HP and my stats look like 21Str, 16Dex, 14Con, 8Int, 16Wis, 8Cha he has a belt of giant strength, boots of striding and springing, and bracers of defense. He went open fist, and he is a monster when it comes to grappling. My first turn normally consists of raging, grappling, and shoving prone. Once my opponent is on the Ground for the following turns i take him to pound town. Barbarian helps with attacking with Str, Grappling and shoving with advantage, and damage resistance to keep me in the fight longer. Im tempted to go 3rd level Barbarian for the damage resistance, but im keeping a cool head and holding out for Diamond body. My favorite move is to grab an opponent use step of the wind and jump into the air. at the top of my jump ill release my opponent and land with no damage due to feather fall. my opponent will take damage and land prone where ill use my attack action to grab him again.
+1 Hit Dice: 1d12 HP, especially at lvl 1 when you're guaranteed max that's pretty baller.
if barbarian is not the starting clash then from the pub
You gain the hit points from your new class as described for levels after 1st. You gain the 1st-level hit points for a class only when you are a 1st-level character
it could work. I would start barbarian for the con + dex unarmored defense then go more for Con, Str, Dex, Wis in that order. And use the rage damage resistance to mitigate the lower AC you would have. lvl 20 would look something like Barb 3/Monk 17. Stunning strike would suffer lower DCs but I would want to use Ki to Flurry of blows anyways.
As for sub classes, kensei for monk and totem for barb. As for weapons, that depends on if kicking is accepted as an unarmed attack, but i would go with a longsword/battleaxe/warhammer used two handed. Race half orc, and stats using a buy points before race stats (14,14,13,8,14,8) getting you (16,14,14,8,14,8).
I like the half orc, 12 monk long death, 8 barbarian zealot. essentially a character dedicated to a cult or God of murder and death. warrior of the gods, mastery of death and relentless fury all synergizing for an unstoppabl and frightening foe. I would prioritize con, then str dex wis scores can be secondary and I would weight them all equally.
Tortles with 2 levels of Barbarian can then make great strength-based monks, but anything else is likely to have a hard time getting a good AC. And did you make your monk with at least 13 strength?
Thankfully dndbeyond will not allow you to take a level of barbarian without a str of 13+. I rolled up a tortle, made him a monk, drunken master. He is str based, I never thought about multiclassing to barbarian. It seems like a good fit, i will look into that one
I feel like shell defence and danger sense contradict each other
Why did you pick 2 levels of barb?
I feel a tortle monk aught to have a 10 dex max, since natural armour doesn't benefit from dex which allows str to be the primary stat. This means that my tortle cannot multiclass since he has less than 13 Dex.
Herein lies the rub; a Monk/Barb requires 13 str 13 dex AND 13 wis which seems a bit MAD and i think that makes this multiclass soo much better because it breaks both class stereotypes!!!
I feel like shell defence and danger sense contradict each other
Why did you pick 2 levels of barb?
I feel a tortle monk aught to have a 10 dex max, since natural armour doesn't benefit from dex which allows str to be the primary stat. This means that my tortle cannot multiclass since he has less than 13 Dex.
Herein lies the rub; a Monk/Barb requires 13 str 13 dex AND 13 wis which seems a bit MAD and i think that makes this multiclass soo much better because it breaks both class stereotypes!!!
Well, I'd make a Tortle have Str 17/Dex 13/Con 14/Int 8/Wis 14/Cha 9.
The reason for 2 levels of Barbarian is that at second level you get Reckless Attack. Advantage on all of your melee strength attacks is going to be pretty great with a build that will (eventually) be putting out 3-4 attacks per round (with Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows).
At most I would take 4 total levels of Barbarian, choosing (most likely), Bear Totem path and increasing that strength. Any higher, and you're doubling up on extra attack, which won't do anything for you (it doesn't stack). And then I would do Monk for the rest of the campaign.
It's probably best to start with Barbarian 2, then take 3-5 levels of Monk, before taking the 2 additional levels of Barbarian (if you do). Waiting a little while for your ASI (put it in Strength or Wisdom) isn't a huge deal when you have Reckless Attack and Rage advantage on Strength checks for when you really need it.
Shell Defense and Danger Sense only contradict each other in ways that are beneficial to you, I think. If you are in your shell, canceling out disadvantage on dexterity saves is pretty nice. If you're not, you don't need to worry about it.
ah ya wasn't really thinking of reckless, I see the value there. I think I have always pictured that feature to be too risky.... to be honest... I think if I went to barbarian college.... I would've flunked!
Been looking at goin' Mountain Dwarf (+2 str, +2 con), first two levels in Barbarian for starting hit points, Rage, and Reckless Attacks. With Barbarian's Unarmored Defense + shield and prioritizing dex, str, con, even with mediocre rolls you can have 16 armor class at lvl 1 unarmored. Reckless Attack's advantage helps offset delaying your lvl 5 multi-attack and with your solid AC + Rage you offset risks of reckless attacks and can tank like a boss early. From there you level Monk for 5 levels, selecting Kensei subclass at Monk lvl 3. This will enable you to upgrade your monk weapon to 1d8 and more importantly giving you access to Agile Parry (+2 additional AC). At Monk lvl 4, if you're not sitting at 18 base AC with a shield then you'll likely want to spend your ability score increases on Dex and/or Con, if you're already at 18 base AC with shield then just drop it all in Str to maximize your damage modifier. At lvl 5 Monk you'll have multi-attack, from there circle back and level Barbarian to lvl 3 and select whatever subclass you feel is appropriate (Depending on your party either the Zealot's subclass to gain access to Divine Fury (more offensive) or the Ancestral Guardian for Ancestral Protector (more defensive) both seem like solid options.
At Monk lvl 4, if you're not sitting at 18 base AC with a shield then you'll likely want to spend your ability score increases on Dex and/or Con, if you're already at 18 base AC with shield then just drop it all in Str to maximize your damage modifier.
Monks do not get to use Martial Arts while using a shield or armour i.e. dex mod to attack, 1d4+ on unarmed attacks, and they do not get the bonus unarmed attack.
You can still use other monk abilities, spend ki and such.
I can't believe I missed that no shields requirement to Martial Arts. Thanks for calling my attention to that!
I think the build still holds up, since you start with 2 levels in barbarian and can phase out the shield by the time you reached lvl 2 or 3 in in Monk, by then the AC you lose dropping the shield can be replaced by Kensei's Agile Parry. Obviously less exciting missing out on that extra +2 AC from the shield on top of everything else.
nothing is stopping you from switching to a shield for a tough fight. you just lose some of your monk offense, you can still use Ki to dodge, disengage, or dash as a bonus action. Using a dodge action + shield makes you hard to hit, raging and 2 attacks still hurt.
I currently have a Barbarian Monk..I took my first level in Barbarian and the next 3 into Monk...rage is amazing, I took path of the Kensei, andy dm lifted the restriction on weapons for Kensei..so I have a great sword...Monk is primarily a Dex class..but it isn't required for attacks..you can still use str..so my AC is pretty high...cuz I have a +3 con and a +2 Dex...and path of the Kensei gives you an additional +2ac...it works REALLY well...attack with my great sword for 2d6+4str+2rage...then flurry of blows..and do 1d4+4+2 and another 1d4+4+2...you can do a ton of damage all while being super tanky yourself... although alot of the abilities do kinda overlap..and don't really mesh well...damage and survivability..it's #1
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While playing my monk, I realized that when fighting, I turn into a mindless killing machine. So now I am thinking about taking some levels in Barbarian. Do you think that would work and be strong?
I'd say it's possible. I'm sure it could be powerful, but it will probably still be sub-optimal.
Remember, Monk is *VERY* class level dependent. Any deviation from monk has to be characterful or very useful because Monk's get huge amounts of their power from their level.
Level Determines the following features:
Benefits/Cons:
It could be a cool character, but I think it will be sub-optimal to a pure monk or other better optimized m.classes
In my current campaign I am playing a Barbarian/Monk and I will say while I feel lacking in the damage department, with the odd mixture of abilities there are things I can do that no one else can, mainly in tanking and control.
The way that a barbarian rage works with martial arts and ki abilities are quite unique, I can grapple up to two enemies at once and still get a round of attacks on them while the only PC they can attack is me or attempt to break my grapple (They would be the first). Then when the caster decides to fireball them my hit points and resistance make sure I stay up, while the ones I'm grappling go limp.
I will mention our campaign is only now getting to the mid levels, so currently I am Barbarian 4/Monk 2. So there are things that could stagnate at higher levels but personally I am looking forward to the progression and seeing the weird thing I can do. Also I did start as Barbarian and the first Monk level was weak until I swapped to the more controlling fighting style.
I have a Barb 4/Monk 8, and he's been very useful. The party he plays in the most tends to not have actual fighters much of the time (usually just 2 rangers), so the ability to absorb more damage has been useful at keeping him and everyone else alive. Plus the resistances to everything but psychic damage have been crucial in some encounters with spell casters and giants. Basically he's built that way to be more survivable.
I currently run a Goliath Monk 6/Barbarian 1/Rogue 1. Stone Fist is lvl 8 with 63HP and my stats look like 21Str, 16Dex, 14Con, 8Int, 16Wis, 8Cha he has a belt of giant strength, boots of striding and springing, and bracers of defense. He went open fist, and he is a monster when it comes to grappling. My first turn normally consists of raging, grappling, and shoving prone. Once my opponent is on the Ground for the following turns i take him to pound town. Barbarian helps with attacking with Str, Grappling and shoving with advantage, and damage resistance to keep me in the fight longer. Im tempted to go 3rd level Barbarian for the damage resistance, but im keeping a cool head and holding out for Diamond body. My favorite move is to grab an opponent use step of the wind and jump into the air. at the top of my jump ill release my opponent and land with no damage due to feather fall. my opponent will take damage and land prone where ill use my attack action to grab him again.
if barbarian is not the starting clash then from the pub
You gain the hit points from your new class as described for levels after 1st. You gain the 1st-level hit points for a class only when you are a 1st-level character
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
it could work. I would start barbarian for the con + dex unarmored defense then go more for Con, Str, Dex, Wis in that order. And use the rage damage resistance to mitigate the lower AC you would have. lvl 20 would look something like Barb 3/Monk 17. Stunning strike would suffer lower DCs but I would want to use Ki to Flurry of blows anyways.
As for sub classes, kensei for monk and totem for barb. As for weapons, that depends on if kicking is accepted as an unarmed attack, but i would go with a longsword/battleaxe/warhammer used two handed. Race half orc, and stats using a buy points before race stats (14,14,13,8,14,8) getting you (16,14,14,8,14,8).
It actually sounds kind of fun.
I like the half orc, 12 monk long death, 8 barbarian zealot. essentially a character dedicated to a cult or God of murder and death. warrior of the gods, mastery of death and relentless fury all synergizing for an unstoppabl and frightening foe. I would prioritize con, then str dex wis scores can be secondary and I would weight them all equally.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Tortles with 2 levels of Barbarian can then make great strength-based monks, but anything else is likely to have a hard time getting a good AC. And did you make your monk with at least 13 strength?
And that's all I have to say about that.
Thankfully dndbeyond will not allow you to take a level of barbarian without a str of 13+. I rolled up a tortle, made him a monk, drunken master. He is str based, I never thought about multiclassing to barbarian. It seems like a good fit, i will look into that one
Cheers
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I feel like shell defence and danger sense contradict each other
Why did you pick 2 levels of barb?
I feel a tortle monk aught to have a 10 dex max, since natural armour doesn't benefit from dex which allows str to be the primary stat. This means that my tortle cannot multiclass since he has less than 13 Dex.
Herein lies the rub; a Monk/Barb requires 13 str 13 dex AND 13 wis which seems a bit MAD and i think that makes this multiclass soo much better because it breaks both class stereotypes!!!
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Well, I'd make a Tortle have Str 17/Dex 13/Con 14/Int 8/Wis 14/Cha 9.
The reason for 2 levels of Barbarian is that at second level you get Reckless Attack. Advantage on all of your melee strength attacks is going to be pretty great with a build that will (eventually) be putting out 3-4 attacks per round (with Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows).
At most I would take 4 total levels of Barbarian, choosing (most likely), Bear Totem path and increasing that strength. Any higher, and you're doubling up on extra attack, which won't do anything for you (it doesn't stack). And then I would do Monk for the rest of the campaign.
It's probably best to start with Barbarian 2, then take 3-5 levels of Monk, before taking the 2 additional levels of Barbarian (if you do). Waiting a little while for your ASI (put it in Strength or Wisdom) isn't a huge deal when you have Reckless Attack and Rage advantage on Strength checks for when you really need it.
And that's all I have to say about that.
Shell Defense and Danger Sense only contradict each other in ways that are beneficial to you, I think. If you are in your shell, canceling out disadvantage on dexterity saves is pretty nice. If you're not, you don't need to worry about it.
And that's all I have to say about that.
ah ya wasn't really thinking of reckless, I see the value there. I think I have always pictured that feature to be too risky.... to be honest... I think if I went to barbarian college.... I would've flunked!
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Been looking at goin' Mountain Dwarf (+2 str, +2 con), first two levels in Barbarian for starting hit points, Rage, and Reckless Attacks. With Barbarian's Unarmored Defense + shield and prioritizing dex, str, con, even with mediocre rolls you can have 16 armor class at lvl 1 unarmored. Reckless Attack's advantage helps offset delaying your lvl 5 multi-attack and with your solid AC + Rage you offset risks of reckless attacks and can tank like a boss early. From there you level Monk for 5 levels, selecting Kensei subclass at Monk lvl 3. This will enable you to upgrade your monk weapon to 1d8 and more importantly giving you access to Agile Parry (+2 additional AC). At Monk lvl 4, if you're not sitting at 18 base AC with a shield then you'll likely want to spend your ability score increases on Dex and/or Con, if you're already at 18 base AC with shield then just drop it all in Str to maximize your damage modifier. At lvl 5 Monk you'll have multi-attack, from there circle back and level Barbarian to lvl 3 and select whatever subclass you feel is appropriate (Depending on your party either the Zealot's subclass to gain access to Divine Fury (more offensive) or the Ancestral Guardian for Ancestral Protector (more defensive) both seem like solid options.
Ref:
At Monk lvl 4, if you're not sitting at 18 base AC with a shield then you'll likely want to spend your ability score increases on Dex and/or Con, if you're already at 18 base AC with shield then just drop it all in Str to maximize your damage modifier.
Monks do not get to use Martial Arts while using a shield or armour i.e. dex mod to attack, 1d4+ on unarmed attacks, and they do not get the bonus unarmed attack.
You can still use other monk abilities, spend ki and such.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I can't believe I missed that no shields requirement to Martial Arts. Thanks for calling my attention to that!
I think the build still holds up, since you start with 2 levels in barbarian and can phase out the shield by the time you reached lvl 2 or 3 in in Monk, by then the AC you lose dropping the shield can be replaced by Kensei's Agile Parry. Obviously less exciting missing out on that extra +2 AC from the shield on top of everything else.
I agree, It does hold up pretty good, certainly not over powered but definitely has a cool factor. imo
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
nothing is stopping you from switching to a shield for a tough fight. you just lose some of your monk offense, you can still use Ki to dodge, disengage, or dash as a bonus action. Using a dodge action + shield makes you hard to hit, raging and 2 attacks still hurt.
I currently have a Barbarian Monk..I took my first level in Barbarian and the next 3 into Monk...rage is amazing, I took path of the Kensei, andy dm lifted the restriction on weapons for Kensei..so I have a great sword...Monk is primarily a Dex class..but it isn't required for attacks..you can still use str..so my AC is pretty high...cuz I have a +3 con and a +2 Dex...and path of the Kensei gives you an additional +2ac...it works REALLY well...attack with my great sword for 2d6+4str+2rage...then flurry of blows..and do 1d4+4+2 and another 1d4+4+2...you can do a ton of damage all while being super tanky yourself... although alot of the abilities do kinda overlap..and don't really mesh well...damage and survivability..it's #1