I agree that kensei with Barbarian is great and str works great for a monk at times. however, greatsword has the heavy property and cannot be a kensei weapon, which would be quite limiting. may I suggest a longsword weilded with two hands for the 1d10 +4. (i don't know where you got the +4str+2rage from)
I currently have a Barbarian Monk..I took my first level in Barbarian and the next 3 into Monk...rage is amazing, I took path of the Kensei, andy dm lifted the restriction on weapons for Kensei..so I have a great sword...Monk is primarily a Dex class..but it isn't required for attacks..you can still use str..so my AC is pretty high...cuz I have a +3 con and a +2 Dex...and path of the Kensei gives you an additional +2ac...it works REALLY well...attack with my great sword for 2d6+4str+2rage...then flurry of blows..and do 1d4+4+2 and another 1d4+4+2...you can do a ton of damage all while being super tanky yourself... although alot of the abilities do kinda overlap..and don't really mesh well...damage and survivability..it's #1
Unless I am reading the book wrong - the +2AC for Way of the Kensi's Agile Parry only applies if you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack Action (not part of the Bonus Action which would apply to your flurry of blows) - so you are sacrificing damage each round to get that +2. Still, a 15 AC at low levels is still not too bad.
I like how you outlined the pro's/con's of this particular class combo, however I noticed one thing you got wrong: in the description for martial arts in the monk section, it specifically says that you "CAN" use dex insread of str to calculate your damage, not that you have to. It would still make it a bit MAD, but that particular point would counteract that particular con you listed.
What's the best way to take the lvl's (starting with Barbarian)? My best idea so far is to take 5 in Barb getting me to Extra Attack, Reckless and my Subclass (Storm Herald), then take 6 in monk for the d6 monk die to make Unarmed Attacks viable, then finish out the rest in Barbarian. I'm not sure that's the best order to take the classes in though. Idea's, critiques? Race: Dragonborn (Copper) Str: 20, Dex: 14, Con: 15, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 11
This conversation fascinated me so I thought I’d make a level 10 Character and see how it fits.
I went Beasthide Shifter (Bear) as race (+2 Con +1 Str)
Pointbuy: 14str 14dex 14con 8int 13wis 9cha
Barbarian 1-4: Bear Totem (Totem Warrior) +1str & wis
Monk 1-6: Battleaxe & Longbow (Kensei) +2 str
This ends up with a character that whilst Raging and Shifted (both take a bonus action, so not on one turn): +13 temp hit points, 18ac (15 +1 from Beasthide Shifter transformation & +2 from Agile Parry), 1 attack with fists d6, one with axe d10... seems pretty good
3rd turn of Combat: (Recklessly attacking)
1st attack: d10+d6+6 (1ki Deft Strike)
2nd-4th attack: each d6+6 (1ki flurry of blows)
So a total of 1d10+4d6+24 at advantage (average 41 damage), whilst retaining 18ac and resistance. Oh and all of these attacks count as magical, if for some reason, you still have no magical stuff by level 10.
Able to throw a stunning strike in there if you think you target will live and then use the 45ft movement to mitigate the adv against you if you feel you need to...
However, if you went Centaur as a starting class you would have half of the Monk stuff just from racial features (thus logically skipping monk). Or you could go Minotaur and primarily go Barbarian but take four levels in Monk as their horn natural weapon is already a d6 piercing weapon.
it could work. I would start barbarian for the con + dex unarmored defense then go more for Con, Str, Dex, Wis in that order. And use the rage damage resistance to mitigate the lower AC you would have. lvl 20 would look something like Barb 3/Monk 17. Stunning strike would suffer lower DCs but I would want to use Ki to Flurry of blows anyways.
As for sub classes, kensei for monk and totem for barb. As for weapons, that depends on if kicking is accepted as an unarmed attack, but i would go with a longsword/battleaxe/warhammer used two handed. Race half orc, and stats using a buy points before race stats (14,14,13,8,14,8) getting you (16,14,14,8,14,8).
It actually sounds kind of fun.
I was looking at a build like this, but going with pure orc rather than half, and using open hand. And I know people love the bear totem for the resistance but I'd go tiger for the jumping.
Came across your post looking for memes actually. My discord character is a half orc level 4 monk level 1 barbarian. And while he is normally a gentle giant, he can't help but give into primal urges to juST RIP SOMEONES HEAD OFF...oops sorry keep it cool. Just my interpretation mainly for the rp aspect of it...and he was getting his but kicked and needed some damage resistances.
kicking is always considered an unarmed attack. headbutts, knees, elbows, anything that uses a part of your body to strike rather than a "weapon" is an unarmed attack.
Yeah, it's not the best multiclass. I mean, if you were really struggling with HP, a single level in barbarian might be nice, just for rage and d12 hit die. After that, though, you need to get high levels in monk. The barbarian and monk damage dealing is kind of opposite, which is why taking barbarian would mainly up your defense. Barbarians use a couple of strong STR based hits that do a lot of damage (rage damage, brutal crit, etc.), whereas monks have a lot of DEX based hits (martial arts, flurry of blows, stunning strike). Also, to multi, you'd need high DEX, STR, WIS, and CON, or at least a few of those. The only reason I'd do this is for the one level defense boost. Half damage from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing is really nice. The only reason I'd go higher than one level is if I wanted the Bear totem's resistance to all damage (and 2 more d12 hit dice), in which case I'd only take 3 levels.
EDIT: Barbarian Monk can be great, it's just not the best.
I always thought 3 levels of barbarian to get bear totem was optimum. That resistance to physical damage , and uncanny Dodge allows the monk to tank quite effectively . Beside, the monks capstone abilities are the best at 17th level, So 3 level dip seems perfect
I'm currently playing an Astral Self Monk 4/Barbarian 1 character in our Curse of Strahd campaign and I have to admit, the power fantasy is spot on and this has quickly become the most fun I've had with a character build.
It's a Variant Human with the Durable feat to help you survive, point buy: 15, 13, 14, 9, 13, 8
+1 to STR and CON, plus the +1 from your feat should get you at a comfy 16 STR/CON. I'll be taking the Monk to 5 before I take Barb to 3 for Bear Totem. The defining weakness to this build is my 14 AC, obviously, but between my HP pool, resistances, and feat I'm still the tankiest in our party and plenty to serve as a defender alongside our fighter. The benefits of playing a strength monk also means that you can jump further and higher than any other monk using step of the wind. This may sound trivial, but my ability to jump 30 feet into the air to scale a huge statue (assisted by the jump spell) or to fly 30 feet out of a window to grab a druid trying to fly away is not only cool as hell, but it was absolutely critical in saving us from an unfortunate fate perhaps.
I always thought 3 levels of barbarian to get bear totem was optimum. That resistance to physical damage , and uncanny Dodge allows the monk to tank quite effectively . Beside, the monks capstone abilities are the best at 17th level, So 3 level dip seems perfect
Uncanny Dodge is a rogue ability. Do you mean Danger Sense?
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it could work. I would start barbarian for the con + dex unarmored defense then go more for Con, Str, Dex, Wis in that order. And use the rage damage resistance to mitigate the lower AC you would have. lvl 20 would look something like Barb 3/Monk 17. Stunning strike would suffer lower DCs but I would want to use Ki to Flurry of blows anyways.
As for sub classes, kensei for monk and totem for barb. As for weapons, that depends on if kicking is accepted as an unarmed attack, but i would go with a longsword/battleaxe/warhammer used two handed. Race half orc, and stats using a buy points before race stats (14,14,13,8,14,8) getting you (16,14,14,8,14,8).
It actually sounds kind of fun.
You can always make an unarmed attack. Unarmed attacks are melee attacks your character makes using their body- so this can be a kick, headbutt, tackle, tail attack, etc.
I had a Monk in Pathfinder. And in pathfinder dex didnt really increase your AC so I had alot of STR. (He is a bouncer from a local club) then we switched to 5e (thank God).
And now my AC is alot lower but still quite descent (15). STR 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 17 Int 9 CHA 9.
So for me multiclassing to Barbarian is quite good?
ordinarily I would say no, Barbarian is not a good MC for monks. In the case of a str monk...maybe, especially a low dex monk.
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it could work. I would start barbarian for the con + dex unarmored defense then go more for Con, Str, Dex, Wis in that order. And use the rage damage resistance to mitigate the lower AC you would have. lvl 20 would look something like Barb 3/Monk 17. Stunning strike would suffer lower DCs but I would want to use Ki to Flurry of blows anyways.
As for sub classes, kensei for monk and totem for barb. As for weapons, that depends on if kicking is accepted as an unarmed attack, but i would go with a longsword/battleaxe/warhammer used two handed. Race half orc, and stats using a buy points before race stats (14,14,13,8,14,8) getting you (16,14,14,8,14,8).
It actually sounds kind of fun.
I agree. Personally I like the concept behind this character build and I think I am going to try it out in it the next campaign. I think of it as a mix of a Ninja scroll Character and a parody of the '88 Bloodsports and the '82 Conan the barbarian movies XD. Sadly, as you all said this character build is a bit MAD but it could work and in order to do that I think ti must be pondered very carefully, particularly if generated with the standard array or with the point buy syst. Anyway this is the build I was thinking, let me know what you think and maybe give me some advise.
Standard array. STR14, DX12, CO15, IN8 WI13, CA1O; race: St Human ST15, DX13, CO16, IN9,WI14 CA11. As for the leveling progression both for background and mechanical reasons I was thinking to start as a Barbarian at Lv1, than swich to Monk (Kensei) until lv9 and back to barbarian (Bear Totem) until level 12. First ASI at 5th Lv: STR+1, Dx+1 (ST16, DX14, CO16, IN9,WI14 CA11); second ASI Mobile; third STR+2 (ST18, DX14, CO16, IN9,WI14 CA11). Point buy. STR15, DX13, CO14,WI13 IN8, CA9; Var Human ST16, DX14 (Resilient), CO15, WI13, IN8 CA9. Same leveling progression as above. First ASI at 5th Lv: Co+1, Wi+1(STR16, DX14 (Resilient), CO16, WI14, IN8 CA9 ; second ASI Mobile; third STR+2 (ST18, DX14 (Resilient), CO16, WI14, IN8 CA9). The reasons behind this build are these. The leveling progression is mainly planned to start with the multiclass concept as a Barbarian (rage, barb UAD and the flat 12HP start) while getting a solid Monk base (number of ki points, d6 unarmored strike dmg die, 2nd attack, evasion, kensei 3rd (+2AC agile parry) and 6th (Magical Weapon) key special abilities etc..). Another reason is also to avoid too much ASI delay. After level 9th some nice synergies start to go online: Mobile+UA movment+Recless attack; Recless attack+Stunning strike; Evasion+resilience Dx+danger sense+Bear totem; 3STrows (STR,DX,CO) proficencies+SotM; Rage+FoB+Deft Strike; Recless attack+SoW. Other nice low level combos in my opinion are also given by Rage: +2dmg in 4 attacks, adv on ST checks like grappling or shoving enemies, (does it works also with athletics?) and Dmg resistance. As for Kensei weapon choice I would go with longsword(Katana) Longbow and knife (kukri) in order to be able to use it either as melee and throwing weapon with the ST bonus when kensei shot. A downside of this build is the low AC. This is temperd by using the mobile feat and the rage resistance, Kensei agile parry and SoW dodge when needed. Honestly this aspect it s what worries me the most. Maybe some magical object can help.. I am thinking of Bracers of UA defense, ring of protection, cape of displacement, belt of Dwarvenkin or anything that pumps up DX or CO etc..). I thought about the defensive duelist feat used with the knife but it seems kind of stretched to me. .There is not so much room for another feat in my opinion. Another flaw is the low DC for Stunning strike..well I guess I can't have everything. I will have to deal with it maybe spend some more ki points to make it happen. Here you are: my barbarian-monk. I must say that I will do it only to be able put down some of the most ignorant Van Damme / Schwarzenegger quotes XD.
I agree that kensei with Barbarian is great and str works great for a monk at times. however, greatsword has the heavy property and cannot be a kensei weapon, which would be quite limiting. may I suggest a longsword weilded with two hands for the 1d10 +4. (i don't know where you got the +4str+2rage from)
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Unless I am reading the book wrong - the +2AC for Way of the Kensi's Agile Parry only applies if you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack Action (not part of the Bonus Action which would apply to your flurry of blows) - so you are sacrificing damage each round to get that +2. Still, a 15 AC at low levels is still not too bad.
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I like how you outlined the pro's/con's of this particular class combo, however I noticed one thing you got wrong: in the description for martial arts in the monk section, it specifically says that you "CAN" use dex insread of str to calculate your damage, not that you have to. It would still make it a bit MAD, but that particular point would counteract that particular con you listed.
If you attack with a kensei melee weapon followed by an unarmed attack, you gain that +2 to AC back til your next turn.
What's the best way to take the lvl's (starting with Barbarian)? My best idea so far is to take 5 in Barb getting me to Extra Attack, Reckless and my Subclass (Storm Herald), then take 6 in monk for the d6 monk die to make Unarmed Attacks viable, then finish out the rest in Barbarian. I'm not sure that's the best order to take the classes in though. Idea's, critiques?
Race: Dragonborn (Copper)
Str: 20, Dex: 14, Con: 15, Int: 11, Wis: 13, Cha: 11
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You need to see to use Danger Sense, in the shell not so much of a goo view
This conversation fascinated me so I thought I’d make a level 10 Character and see how it fits.
I went Beasthide Shifter (Bear) as race (+2 Con +1 Str)
Pointbuy: 14str 14dex 14con 8int 13wis 9cha
Barbarian 1-4: Bear Totem (Totem Warrior) +1str & wis
Monk 1-6: Battleaxe & Longbow (Kensei) +2 str
This ends up with a character that whilst Raging and Shifted (both take a bonus action, so not on one turn): +13 temp hit points, 18ac (15 +1 from Beasthide Shifter transformation & +2 from Agile Parry), 1 attack with fists d6, one with axe d10... seems pretty good
3rd turn of Combat: (Recklessly attacking)
1st attack: d10+d6+6 (1ki Deft Strike)
2nd-4th attack: each d6+6 (1ki flurry of blows)
So a total of 1d10+4d6+24 at advantage (average 41 damage), whilst retaining 18ac and resistance. Oh and all of these attacks count as magical, if for some reason, you still have no magical stuff by level 10.
Able to throw a stunning strike in there if you think you target will live and then use the 45ft movement to mitigate the adv against you if you feel you need to...
However, if you went Centaur as a starting class you would have half of the Monk stuff just from racial features (thus logically skipping monk).
Or you could go Minotaur and primarily go Barbarian but take four levels in Monk as their horn natural weapon is already a d6 piercing weapon.
I was looking at a build like this, but going with pure orc rather than half, and using open hand. And I know people love the bear totem for the resistance but I'd go tiger for the jumping.
Came across your post looking for memes actually. My discord character is a half orc level 4 monk level 1 barbarian. And while he is normally a gentle giant, he can't help but give into primal urges to juST RIP SOMEONES HEAD OFF...oops sorry keep it cool. Just my interpretation mainly for the rp aspect of it...and he was getting his but kicked and needed some damage resistances.
kicking is always considered an unarmed attack. headbutts, knees, elbows, anything that uses a part of your body to strike rather than a "weapon" is an unarmed attack.
True, but to achieve this you have to have an Extra Attack feature.
Yeah, it's not the best multiclass. I mean, if you were really struggling with HP, a single level in barbarian might be nice, just for rage and d12 hit die. After that, though, you need to get high levels in monk. The barbarian and monk damage dealing is kind of opposite, which is why taking barbarian would mainly up your defense. Barbarians use a couple of strong STR based hits that do a lot of damage (rage damage, brutal crit, etc.), whereas monks have a lot of DEX based hits (martial arts, flurry of blows, stunning strike). Also, to multi, you'd need high DEX, STR, WIS, and CON, or at least a few of those. The only reason I'd do this is for the one level defense boost. Half damage from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing is really nice. The only reason I'd go higher than one level is if I wanted the Bear totem's resistance to all damage (and 2 more d12 hit dice), in which case I'd only take 3 levels.
EDIT: Barbarian Monk can be great, it's just not the best.
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
Subclasses | Races | Spells | Magic Items | Monsters | Feats | Backgrounds
I always thought 3 levels of barbarian to get bear totem was optimum. That resistance to physical damage , and uncanny Dodge allows the monk to tank quite effectively . Beside, the monks capstone abilities are the best at 17th level, So 3 level dip seems perfect
I'm currently playing an Astral Self Monk 4/Barbarian 1 character in our Curse of Strahd campaign and I have to admit, the power fantasy is spot on and this has quickly become the most fun I've had with a character build.
It's a Variant Human with the Durable feat to help you survive, point buy: 15, 13, 14, 9, 13, 8
+1 to STR and CON, plus the +1 from your feat should get you at a comfy 16 STR/CON. I'll be taking the Monk to 5 before I take Barb to 3 for Bear Totem. The defining weakness to this build is my 14 AC, obviously, but between my HP pool, resistances, and feat I'm still the tankiest in our party and plenty to serve as a defender alongside our fighter. The benefits of playing a strength monk also means that you can jump further and higher than any other monk using step of the wind. This may sound trivial, but my ability to jump 30 feet into the air to scale a huge statue (assisted by the jump spell) or to fly 30 feet out of a window to grab a druid trying to fly away is not only cool as hell, but it was absolutely critical in saving us from an unfortunate fate perhaps.
Uncanny Dodge is a rogue ability. Do you mean Danger Sense?
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
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You can always make an unarmed attack. Unarmed attacks are melee attacks your character makes using their body- so this can be a kick, headbutt, tackle, tail attack, etc.
I had a Monk in Pathfinder. And in pathfinder dex didnt really increase your AC so I had alot of STR. (He is a bouncer from a local club) then we switched to 5e (thank God).
And now my AC is alot lower but still quite descent (15). STR 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 17 Int 9 CHA 9.
So for me multiclassing to Barbarian is quite good?
ordinarily I would say no, Barbarian is not a good MC for monks. In the case of a str monk...maybe, especially a low dex monk.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yes, your ac would improve by 1 (but getting an ASI and going +1 wis +1 cha would also do that).
It depends on levels and what you are trying to get out of Monk and Barbarian (if simply rage, then yes it’s probably worth it)
I agree. Personally I like the concept behind this character build and I think I am going to try it out in it the next campaign. I think of it as a mix of a Ninja scroll Character and a parody of the '88 Bloodsports and the '82 Conan the barbarian movies XD. Sadly, as you all said this character build is a bit MAD but it could work and in order to do that I think ti must be pondered very carefully, particularly if generated with the standard array or with the point buy syst. Anyway this is the build I was thinking, let me know what you think and maybe give me some advise.
Standard array. STR14, DX12, CO15, IN8 WI13, CA1O; race: St Human ST15, DX13, CO16, IN9,WI14 CA11. As for the leveling progression both for background and mechanical reasons I was thinking to start as a Barbarian at Lv1, than swich to Monk (Kensei) until lv9 and back to barbarian (Bear Totem) until level 12. First ASI at 5th Lv: STR+1, Dx+1 (ST16, DX14, CO16, IN9,WI14 CA11); second ASI Mobile; third STR+2 (ST18, DX14, CO16, IN9,WI14 CA11).
Point buy. STR15, DX13, CO14,WI13 IN8, CA9; Var Human ST16, DX14 (Resilient), CO15, WI13, IN8 CA9. Same leveling progression as above. First ASI at 5th Lv: Co+1, Wi+1(STR16, DX14 (Resilient), CO16, WI14, IN8 CA9 ; second ASI Mobile; third STR+2 (ST18, DX14 (Resilient), CO16, WI14, IN8 CA9).
The reasons behind this build are these. The leveling progression is mainly planned to start with the multiclass concept as a Barbarian (rage, barb UAD and the flat 12HP start) while getting a solid Monk base (number of ki points, d6 unarmored strike dmg die, 2nd attack, evasion, kensei 3rd (+2AC agile parry) and 6th (Magical Weapon) key special abilities etc..). Another reason is also to avoid too much ASI delay. After level 9th some nice synergies start to go online: Mobile+UA movment+Recless attack; Recless attack+Stunning strike; Evasion+resilience Dx+danger sense+Bear totem; 3STrows (STR,DX,CO) proficencies+SotM; Rage+FoB+Deft Strike; Recless attack+SoW. Other nice low level combos in my opinion are also given by Rage: +2dmg in 4 attacks, adv on ST checks like grappling or shoving enemies, (does it works also with athletics?) and Dmg resistance. As for Kensei weapon choice I would go with longsword(Katana) Longbow and knife (kukri) in order to be able to use it either as melee and throwing weapon with the ST bonus when kensei shot. A downside of this build is the low AC. This is temperd by using the mobile feat and the rage resistance, Kensei agile parry and SoW dodge when needed. Honestly this aspect it s what worries me the most. Maybe some magical object can help.. I am thinking of Bracers of UA defense, ring of protection, cape of displacement, belt of Dwarvenkin or anything that pumps up DX or CO etc..). I thought about the defensive duelist feat used with the knife but it seems kind of stretched to me. .There is not so much room for another feat in my opinion. Another flaw is the low DC for Stunning strike..well I guess I can't have everything. I will have to deal with it maybe spend some more ki points to make it happen. Here you are: my barbarian-monk. I must say that I will do it only to be able put down some of the most ignorant Van Damme / Schwarzenegger quotes XD.