Long time player - first time poster (here) my group is gearing up to play through the Tomb of Annihilation and I've decided to try my hand at a paladin.
So what I've come up with is Hellmuth von Höllenfeuer, a variant Tiefling, Oath of Vengence Paladin of Kelemvor
I've also picked the soldier background for him (I was thinking Holy Crusader type - so fought in an army of some sort) put him in full plate and given him a halberd.
Also since he's a variant Tiefling - I've given him large bat wings (it's possible I took some offered suggestion I found that an Oath of Vengence paladin is like Batman hehe)
My thoughts of playing him are a bit fanatical - taking the whole Kelemvor judging the damned thing as a personal crusade
Guess I'm just curious as to what people might think - or perhaps tips and suggestions on how to effectively RP a paladin as this is all new territory for me - I tend to play more rangers than anything else hehe.
You should--if you have access to everything--see regular, feral, variant, and variant feral tieflings. The others are from UA, which--except for the most recent--isn't in here yet.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
*shrug* all I see under Tiefling here on Beyond has three options - Devil's Tongue, Hellfire and Winged - like I said I've never played one before so I was unaware of any other types
The Paladin, from a roleplaying perspective, goes around the Oath.
Why did the character take the Oath? Is it in his belief or more a means to an end? Does the Oath go along with the main quest or against it? And with the rest of the party?
Those are the questions I feel appropriate for a Paladin.
The Paladin, from a roleplaying perspective, goes around the Oath.
Why did the character take the Oath? Is it in his belief or more a means to an end? Does the Oath go along with the main quest or against it? And with the rest of the party?
Those are the questions I feel appropriate for a Paladin.
I agree and want to add to this. From a character stand point. Paladins are all about their convictions. When it comes to your parties decisions, you won't entertain diplomacy or a vote. You act and argue on the point of your Oath/tenants. Socking points into persuasion and intimidation are always beneficial if you can't outright get your party to follow you into the fray. It may come off a little as arrogance but your faith is strongest when you act in its favor. Holy(demonic?) soldiers of their god/deity. Your team may be annoy if you begin charging in headfirst when it comes to your actions, but if you rp to them in downtime to explain that you're going to act/react accordingly because it is in everyones best interest that you follow your oath, itll allow for some strength in your decisions and immediate reactions.
also, work with your dm on this. find out what your character is doing in this given situation if it does not directly fit your backstory. is this a stepping stone to the next portion of your quest? is this gaining information to get to an npc that you need to complete your vengeance?
Paladins are great in toa. just be sure to investigate everything and don't walk through anywhere blindly! (from play and dm experience)
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Current campaigns - DM - Tomb of Annihilation home game
theory crafter and character builder.
Past campaigns -DM- modern post-apocalypse custom home game.
- Human Paladin, Brazelton - multiple games
- lv 12 Human Ranger, Mattias Shaw - 3.5e Homebrew
When it comes to your parties decisions, you won't entertain diplomacy or a vote. You act and argue on the point of your Oath/tenants.
This sounds an awful lot like My Guy Syndrome. Paladins don't have to be lawful, and sacred oaths are abstract enough that this kind of hardline approach isn't necessary. There's no reason a Paladin can't have convictions and be pragmatic.
Excellent discussion! Lots of good information in here that will really help me flush out my character - I need to start looking at it from the WHY point of view - why did he take an Oath of Vengeance and sort of let everything else fall in to place around that.
I think I may have come up with a decent background story finally too....
As a young Tiefling growing up in Thay, Hellmuth had about as normal of a childhood as one of his heritage could expect considering he was a slave. At least until a priest took an interest in him and purchased him. Father Banatin was a dwarven priest of Kelemvor and had a need for a page, which Hellmuth filled perfectly. While serving Father Banatin, the young Tielfling learned about Kelemvor and the order his dwarven master had dedicated his life to. As he got older, he begged Banatin to teach him the ways, eventually the old dwarf gave in to his pages requests and started training him in the ways of the Church of Kelemvor, including the rites and tenets of his religion. Later in life, Hellmuth would often help Father Banatin with his ‘ceremonies’, which often helped the living on their way to visit with their Lord Kelemvor whether they were ready or not. These subjects were often murders, thieves, rapists or other damned souls who were sent to the Lord of the Dead for judgement. Hellmuth truly believed everything Banatin taught him, but one night during a ceremony for a particularly damned soul, things went awry which lead to the mortal wounding of Father Banatin. In a fit of rage, Hellmuth sent the soul to meet Kelemvor faster than normal. As Banatin, bleed out in the Tieflings arms, he swore an Oath of Vengeance to Kelemvor, promising to continue Father Banatin’s work and bring judgement to those he deemed ‘damned’ souls. Unfortunately, the local authorities did not believe his tale of what happened to the old Dwarf and he was accused of giving in to his demonic heritage and killing the Dwarf who had enslaved him for years. Hellmuth was sentenced to serve out his remaining years as a conscript of the army of Thay. The Tiefling never forgot the teachings of Banatin and bid his time, training and fighting in whatever skirmishes and wars the Thayan Army partook in. Eventually during one sortie against the forces of Aglarond, his entire squad was nearly wiped out in an ambush. Hellmuth took this opportunity to devise his escape, his commanding officers would just assume he perished alongside his fellow soldiers, another piece of fodder in the machine of war. Hellmuth escaped to the north, through Narfell, and Damara, eventually making his way to Baldur’s Gate where he has been able to take up the mantle as a paladin of Kelemvor once again and continue helping his lord judge the damned.
When it comes to your parties decisions, you won't entertain diplomacy or a vote. You act and argue on the point of your Oath/tenants.
This sounds an awful lot like My Guy Syndrome. Paladins don't have to be lawful, and sacred oaths are abstract enough that this kind of hardline approach isn't necessary. There's no reason a Paladin can't have convictions and be pragmatic.
I don't tie this to alignment, I see this as a personality goal. I agree a paladin does NOT have to be lawful.However, a characters of this class' convictions and goals should be deliberate and further the evolution of their quest. good, bad, vengeful, holy, how ever you play it, the tenants of your oath are to be consulted and resolved in every decision. Much as a doctor acts on the Hippocratic Oath, a paladin will not act against what he has sworn to work towards on the risk of losing oneself in the pursuit of their being(oathbreaker.) With a high enough charisma, people should be enamored by you to begin with, but the reaction to the conversation should always be a compilation of what you agreed to follow.
I guess saying' you won't entertain a vote/diplomacy' was a bit boisterous of me, but I was excited. The way you have developed your character IS your opinion and how you react to things and, as a valuable character attribute, a paladins oath/code allows you to avoid hemming and hawing over decisions because you have already made up your mind.
MY GUY SYNDROME is an ugly excuse for people not to invest emotion in their character and point back to what their sheet or the book says. To get away from that, I've always encouraged my players to hash things out in character rather than out of character. comes down to how invested you and your group are in the story vs the stat sheets.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current campaigns - DM - Tomb of Annihilation home game
theory crafter and character builder.
Past campaigns -DM- modern post-apocalypse custom home game.
- Human Paladin, Brazelton - multiple games
- lv 12 Human Ranger, Mattias Shaw - 3.5e Homebrew
Hmm I'm starting to think if you want conflict within your party - invite a paladin! hehe I almost forced a TPK shortly after we left town because I charged off at the mere mention of Undead being nearby and ran in to 4 ogre zombies
Paladins open up great opportunities for RP, and back the fluff with iconic gear and imagery.
Just remember, people often make the mistake of confusing zeal with irrationality, and passion for foolishness when they RP a character with strong ideals and convictions. While there's nothing wrong, specifically, with playing a foaming-at-the-mouth defender or the weak and avenger of the fallen, it's not the only aspect of a passionate disciple of a faith or discipline.
Charging off at the mere mention of undead nearby and nearly causing a TPK might fit the bill for a holy avenger type, but that doesn't seem to fit your fluff. Your Tiefling is patient, determined, disciplined, and well trained.
While serving Father Banatin, the young Tielfling learned about Kelemvor and the order his dwarven master had dedicated his life to. As he got older, he begged Banatin to teach him the ways, eventually the old dwarf gave in to his pages requests and started training him in the ways of the Church of Kelemvor, including the rites and tenets of his religion.
You didn't just get trained... you got trained by a dwarven spiritual whose fluff smacks of patience and determination.
The Tiefling never forgot the teachings of Banatin and bid his time, training and fighting in whatever skirmishes and wars the Thayan Army partook in. Eventually during one sortie against the forces of Aglarond, his entire squad was nearly wiped out in an ambush. Hellmuth took this opportunity to devise his escape,
Here we see your character again showing patience, discipline, wisdom and now humility. Your character's time as a slave, then an acolyte, then a conscripted soldier has honed him into a person who knows how to pick his fights. A wise steward of his own life that he may use it to serve the causes he has dedicated himself to, rather than throw it away foolishly on a whim. Your paladin seems like the kind who is slow to speak, but deliberate with his words. Slow to anger, but decisive with his strikes. Passionate for his cause, but tempered by wisdom.
If played right, he wouldn't be the reason your party suffers a TPK. He's more likely to be the main reason they're still alive.
Perhaps I took this aspect of a follower of Kelemvor a bit too fanatical then...
In fact, all the faithful of Kelemvor despise the undead and work to some degree to eliminate them, for undead of any sort are seen as an abomination of the natural order.
Also I kind of believed that Father Banatin just used the guise of the church as a reason to kill people he felt deserved it - and possibly, for a 'donation to the church' would condemn souls for you as well.
I do appreciate your feedback and thoughts though, thank you.
I hope I didn't sound like I was telling you how to have fun. By all means, please play what feels true to you. I'm just offering another take on your character based on the fluff I can read.
That said, let me suggest that someone with an aim to eliminate all kinds of some subgroup is less likely to fly off the handle than someone who is just interested in making a statement that all kinds of a subgroup should be eliminated.
Bare with me... let's look at this as types of warfare. Eliminating an enemy is a measured and organized attack. Militaries work in tangent groups with intricate coordinated maneuvers to create the most amount of havoc to the enemy, their supplies, and their supporters while taking the smallest amount of losses to their own. These are products of training, research, financing, debate, mediation, trade agreements, embargoes, alliances, treaties, surgical strikes, and a variety of other attacks both obvious and insidious to undermine and overthrow the intended target en mass. If generals just told their soldiers to "go in there and make a mess of things" then most of the soldiers would not come back and the war would be lost.
Or how about a more peaceful metaphor: the peaceful protestor vs the vandal protestor. Who is getting more done to get their agendas known? The activist who marches, writes to congress, shows up to elections, gives speeches on their agendas in organized public events, makes alliances with political leaders, or joins the political structure by campaigning for a position?
OR
The activist who spray paints "DIE [insert political leaders name] on the side of a building with that political leaders name on it.
Singular, unfocused strikes accomplish nothing. They are dramatic and jarring, but ultimately, the long game is sacrificed for a moment of satisfaction. If your paladin truly wishes to carry on his mentors work, it stands to reason he has a long game in mind to eradicate all undead. He can't do that if he dies in the process. So patient planning and a judicious application of force has a higher likely success rate than flying off the handle to go on a murder frenzy at the first sign of undead like some ghostbusting piranha.
Long time player - first time poster (here) my group is gearing up to play through the Tomb of Annihilation and I've decided to try my hand at a paladin.
So what I've come up with is Hellmuth von Höllenfeuer, a variant Tiefling, Oath of Vengence Paladin of Kelemvor
I've also picked the soldier background for him (I was thinking Holy Crusader type - so fought in an army of some sort) put him in full plate and given him a halberd.
Also since he's a variant Tiefling - I've given him large bat wings (it's possible I took some offered suggestion I found that an Oath of Vengence paladin is like Batman hehe)
My thoughts of playing him are a bit fanatical - taking the whole Kelemvor judging the damned thing as a personal crusade
Guess I'm just curious as to what people might think - or perhaps tips and suggestions on how to effectively RP a paladin as this is all new territory for me - I tend to play more rangers than anything else hehe.
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Which variant tiefling?
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Which? Like Winged? Or what.....
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
SCAG feral variant, SCAG winged/devil's tongue/hellfire variant, UA Abyssal subrace, one of these UA subraces, or some combination thereof?
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Uhhh I only see one variant listed here when I build a character
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
You should--if you have access to everything--see regular, feral, variant, and variant feral tieflings. The others are from UA, which--except for the most recent--isn't in here yet.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
*shrug* all I see under Tiefling here on Beyond has three options - Devil's Tongue, Hellfire and Winged - like I said I've never played one before so I was unaware of any other types
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
If I may offer my advice on Paladins:
The Paladin, from a roleplaying perspective, goes around the Oath.
Why did the character take the Oath? Is it in his belief or more a means to an end? Does the Oath go along with the main quest or against it? And with the rest of the party?
Those are the questions I feel appropriate for a Paladin.
Current campaigns - DM - Tomb of Annihilation home game
theory crafter and character builder.
Past campaigns -DM- modern post-apocalypse custom home game.
- Human Paladin, Brazelton - multiple games
- lv 12 Human Ranger, Mattias Shaw - 3.5e Homebrew
Excellent discussion! Lots of good information in here that will really help me flush out my character - I need to start looking at it from the WHY point of view - why did he take an Oath of Vengeance and sort of let everything else fall in to place around that.
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
I think I may have come up with a decent background story finally too....
As a young Tiefling growing up in Thay, Hellmuth had about as normal of a childhood as one of his heritage could expect considering he was a slave. At least until a priest took an interest in him and purchased him. Father Banatin was a dwarven priest of Kelemvor and had a need for a page, which Hellmuth filled perfectly. While serving Father Banatin, the young Tielfling learned about Kelemvor and the order his dwarven master had dedicated his life to. As he got older, he begged Banatin to teach him the ways, eventually the old dwarf gave in to his pages requests and started training him in the ways of the Church of Kelemvor, including the rites and tenets of his religion. Later in life, Hellmuth would often help Father Banatin with his ‘ceremonies’, which often helped the living on their way to visit with their Lord Kelemvor whether they were ready or not. These subjects were often murders, thieves, rapists or other damned souls who were sent to the Lord of the Dead for judgement. Hellmuth truly believed everything Banatin taught him, but one night during a ceremony for a particularly damned soul, things went awry which lead to the mortal wounding of Father Banatin. In a fit of rage, Hellmuth sent the soul to meet Kelemvor faster than normal. As Banatin, bleed out in the Tieflings arms, he swore an Oath of Vengeance to Kelemvor, promising to continue Father Banatin’s work and bring judgement to those he deemed ‘damned’ souls. Unfortunately, the local authorities did not believe his tale of what happened to the old Dwarf and he was accused of giving in to his demonic heritage and killing the Dwarf who had enslaved him for years. Hellmuth was sentenced to serve out his remaining years as a conscript of the army of Thay. The Tiefling never forgot the teachings of Banatin and bid his time, training and fighting in whatever skirmishes and wars the Thayan Army partook in. Eventually during one sortie against the forces of Aglarond, his entire squad was nearly wiped out in an ambush. Hellmuth took this opportunity to devise his escape, his commanding officers would just assume he perished alongside his fellow soldiers, another piece of fodder in the machine of war. Hellmuth escaped to the north, through Narfell, and Damara, eventually making his way to Baldur’s Gate where he has been able to take up the mantle as a paladin of Kelemvor once again and continue helping his lord judge the damned.
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Current campaigns - DM - Tomb of Annihilation home game
theory crafter and character builder.
Past campaigns -DM- modern post-apocalypse custom home game.
- Human Paladin, Brazelton - multiple games
- lv 12 Human Ranger, Mattias Shaw - 3.5e Homebrew
Hmm I'm starting to think if you want conflict within your party - invite a paladin! hehe I almost forced a TPK shortly after we left town because I charged off at the mere mention of Undead being nearby and ran in to 4 ogre zombies
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Paladins open up great opportunities for RP, and back the fluff with iconic gear and imagery.
Just remember, people often make the mistake of confusing zeal with irrationality, and passion for foolishness when they RP a character with strong ideals and convictions. While there's nothing wrong, specifically, with playing a foaming-at-the-mouth defender or the weak and avenger of the fallen, it's not the only aspect of a passionate disciple of a faith or discipline.
Charging off at the mere mention of undead nearby and nearly causing a TPK might fit the bill for a holy avenger type, but that doesn't seem to fit your fluff. Your Tiefling is patient, determined, disciplined, and well trained.
You didn't just get trained... you got trained by a dwarven spiritual whose fluff smacks of patience and determination.
Here we see your character again showing patience, discipline, wisdom and now humility. Your character's time as a slave, then an acolyte, then a conscripted soldier has honed him into a person who knows how to pick his fights. A wise steward of his own life that he may use it to serve the causes he has dedicated himself to, rather than throw it away foolishly on a whim. Your paladin seems like the kind who is slow to speak, but deliberate with his words. Slow to anger, but decisive with his strikes. Passionate for his cause, but tempered by wisdom.
If played right, he wouldn't be the reason your party suffers a TPK. He's more likely to be the main reason they're still alive.
My DM Registry
My Characters:
Archibald Thwipp, Human/Male/Blood Hunter/L3 posting in The Tavern, DnDBeyond
Sergeant Sylvia, Half Orc/Female/Barbarian/L3 posting in A Beginner's Guide, Myth Weavers
Carric Holimion, Wood Elf/Male/Ranger/L1 posting in Lost Mines of Phandelver, Giant in the Playground
Perhaps I took this aspect of a follower of Kelemvor a bit too fanatical then...
Also I kind of believed that Father Banatin just used the guise of the church as a reason to kill people he felt deserved it - and possibly, for a 'donation to the church' would condemn souls for you as well.
I do appreciate your feedback and thoughts though, thank you.
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
I hope I didn't sound like I was telling you how to have fun. By all means, please play what feels true to you. I'm just offering another take on your character based on the fluff I can read.
That said, let me suggest that someone with an aim to eliminate all kinds of some subgroup is less likely to fly off the handle than someone who is just interested in making a statement that all kinds of a subgroup should be eliminated.
Bare with me... let's look at this as types of warfare. Eliminating an enemy is a measured and organized attack. Militaries work in tangent groups with intricate coordinated maneuvers to create the most amount of havoc to the enemy, their supplies, and their supporters while taking the smallest amount of losses to their own. These are products of training, research, financing, debate, mediation, trade agreements, embargoes, alliances, treaties, surgical strikes, and a variety of other attacks both obvious and insidious to undermine and overthrow the intended target en mass. If generals just told their soldiers to "go in there and make a mess of things" then most of the soldiers would not come back and the war would be lost.
Or how about a more peaceful metaphor: the peaceful protestor vs the vandal protestor. Who is getting more done to get their agendas known? The activist who marches, writes to congress, shows up to elections, gives speeches on their agendas in organized public events, makes alliances with political leaders, or joins the political structure by campaigning for a position?
OR
The activist who spray paints "DIE [insert political leaders name] on the side of a building with that political leaders name on it.
Singular, unfocused strikes accomplish nothing. They are dramatic and jarring, but ultimately, the long game is sacrificed for a moment of satisfaction. If your paladin truly wishes to carry on his mentors work, it stands to reason he has a long game in mind to eradicate all undead. He can't do that if he dies in the process. So patient planning and a judicious application of force has a higher likely success rate than flying off the handle to go on a murder frenzy at the first sign of undead like some ghostbusting piranha.
My DM Registry
My Characters:
Archibald Thwipp, Human/Male/Blood Hunter/L3 posting in The Tavern, DnDBeyond
Sergeant Sylvia, Half Orc/Female/Barbarian/L3 posting in A Beginner's Guide, Myth Weavers
Carric Holimion, Wood Elf/Male/Ranger/L1 posting in Lost Mines of Phandelver, Giant in the Playground