So I am a level 5 Paladin, Oath or Redemption, and I like to use Divine Smite on high level bosses a lot. So as my second attack, I stacked Divine Smite, level 2 spell slot, and went on with my attack.
My DM said, "Hey, you can only use melee attack on 2nd attack."
I agreed, and said I was using my great sword with my divine smite, which used a 2nd spell slot.
He tells me I can only use spells on my first attack, because I can only use melee attacks on my 2nd attack
I tell him that divine smite isn't a normal attack spell and just adds to hit, he doesn't agree.
You can even use divine smite on a melee weapon attack that's part of a spell or that triggers the effect of a spell. This means you could Thunderous Smite, Booming Blade and divine smite on the Booming Blade attack.
You are the correct one sir the trigger is hitting not making an attack and there is no limit printed in the book as to how many smites per turn you can use since you aren't casting a spell you are burning a spell slot for extra damage.
You don't even have to declare you are using divine smite until you successfully hit.
Adding Smite to an attack is 100% independent of the "Attack Action". It has no limitations on the amount of times it can be applied per round. It is only limited by requiring a melee weapon attack (Regular attack, SCAG melee cantrips, bonus action attacks, attacks of opportunity, etc.), and limited to one Smite per weapon attack (not action).
You can absolutely use Smite again (spending an additional spell slot) on your second attack from Extra Attack. This is the Gold Standard of playing a Paladin; players & DMs expect this from Paladins.
Your DM is certainly free to houserule that capability out of the class for their campaigns, but that is also something that they should have discussed with you prior to starting the campaign. I'm assuming that you started at level 1 (or at least not your current level), so I would find it hard to believe that your DM had no idea this would come up at level 5. However, I'd still give the DM the benefit of the doubt in that they do actually misunderstand the ability, and hopefully this should clear everything up for them.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Our DM has seen the forum and has just gone with the excuse that you may not know all 5e rules...
Well that sucks then because they are 100% wrong on this one, and I call BS on their excuse because the Paladin forum here is littered with threads that reference this particular mechanic. It's clear. :/
[edit]
Are you absolutely sure that they are not mistaking the Divine Smite class feature with the "Wrathful, Searing, Binding, etc. Smite" spells?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
They're welcome to amend the rules of D&D as they see fit - it's one of the great things about D&D, that it embraces each group customising the rules as they want.
The (RAW) rules as written is very clear.
That doesn't mean that you have to use it in your games.
Sounds like you just have a bad, obstinate DM. Sorry dude.
Have they shown you where this non-existing "phantom rule" is listed in one of the source books? Shown you one of Jeremy Crawford's statements saying Divine Smite is limited to 1/round? Oh, right... they don't exist!
Found those with a 15 second google search. Your DM is wrong on this issue (RAW and RAI), references a core rule that doesn't exist, and won't acknowledge that their decision is just a house rule? Yikes.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a DM changing anything they want with the game, but that only works when they are open and transparent about it (and not in an AL campaign). They don't like the idea of your Paladin being able to do a lot of nova damage with your resources? That's sorta one of the Paladin's main features, but okay... as long as they told you prior to starting the campaign (which I take it they didn't).
Without having the same level of context as yourself, my experience tells me that your DM falls into the category of DMs that put their own control & enjoyment above all else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Might be a bit late in this case, but one thing that seems to work for me when dealing with DM rulings is rather than tell them that they're flat out wrong, tell them that its fine if they want to change the rule to no longer allow smite on the second hit. This makes it clear that they're in charge while also making it clear that that's not the actual rule. More often than not I've had such rule changes either immediately revoked or had them only last until the end of the session.
So I am a level 5 Paladin, Oath or Redemption, and I like to use Divine Smite on high level bosses a lot. So as my second attack, I stacked Divine Smite, level 2 spell slot, and went on with my attack.
My DM said, "Hey, you can only use melee attack on 2nd attack."
I agreed, and said I was using my great sword with my divine smite, which used a 2nd spell slot.
He tells me I can only use spells on my first attack, because I can only use melee attacks on my 2nd attack
I tell him that divine smite isn't a normal attack spell and just adds to hit, he doesn't agree.
What do yall think?
Obviously every DM can tweak the rules to suit them, but based on the official rules as written and intended, your DM is incorrect. The problem seems to stem from your DM thinking because you're spending a spell slot that you're casting a spell. You're not. The spell slot in this instance is only a resource being expended, like a Battle Master's Superiority Dice. The only prerequisite for when you can use Divine Smite is "when you hit a creature with a melee attack". This means a) you decide to use the ability when you HIT, not when you attack, so you don't waste it on an attack that misses and you learn whether it's a crit before deciding to use it, and b) there is no restriction on WHEN the successful melee attack happens. It can be any or all attacks made during the Attack action, it can be the Bonus Action attack taken under the rules for two-weapon fighting, it can be an Opportunity Attack, the retaliation attack made via the Sentinel feat, even the attack made during Booming/Green-Flame Blade. And the only resource expended by Divine Smite is a spell slot. It does not use your Bonus Action or Reaction, which are limited per turn/round, so you can use it as often as you can hit with an attack. As an extreme example, if you were multiclassed with at least 11 levels of Ranger(Hunter), and use Whirlwind Attack, you could be in a situation where you'd make melee attacks against up to 8 creatures. You could use a spell slot on every one of those attacks that hit, assuming you have enough(after calculating your total spell slots with the rules for multiclassing).
To your DM if they visit this thread again, I would appreciate you citing the rules text that you feel justifies your interpretation of the Divine Smite ability. I believe your interpretation is incorrect, but rather than just wag my finger and say you're wrong, I would like to hear your side beyond "because I said so".
Might be a bit late in this case, but one thing that seems to work for me when dealing with DM rulings is rather than tell them that they're flat out wrong, tell them that its fine if they want to change the rule to no longer allow smite on the second hit. This makes it clear that they're in charge while also making it clear that that's not the actual rule. More often than not I've had such rule changes either immediately revoked or had them only last until the end of the session.
The downside to this approach is that the ruling in question weakens one of the Paladin's core abilities, potentially to a significant degree. It's the kind of houserule that I would want to know ahead of time before I chose to roll up a Paladin.
I would ask the DM on what rule he is basing himself to say that you can't do it, might help clear out the issue. But yeah, paladins can smite as long as they have spell slots... To add on that, they can smite with any spellslots they gain from multiclassing as well (since it now converts to one table), even Pact magic slots.
So with my paladin pc, we're going to try asking his deity for a divine smite before he makes his attack roll. If it lands, he gets his divine strike but if he misses, his request was ignored (therefore not using his spell slot.)
The idea is that he can't wait until after his hit landed to check and see if he crit or not and from a flavor stand point, it makes sense for the divine smite to be with his weapon rather than him slashing someone and THEN spending a spell slot that burns afterwards or however that would work.
And if anyone still curious about the answer to the thread, you can divine smite once per attack on any attacks in any round, provided you have to spell slot to expend. It's not an actual spell so it can be triggered more than once per round/ turn
So I am a level 5 Paladin, Oath or Redemption, and I like to use Divine Smite on high level bosses a lot. So as my second attack, I stacked Divine Smite, level 2 spell slot, and went on with my attack.
My DM said, "Hey, you can only use melee attack on 2nd attack."
I agreed, and said I was using my great sword with my divine smite, which used a 2nd spell slot.
He tells me I can only use spells on my first attack, because I can only use melee attacks on my 2nd attack
I tell him that divine smite isn't a normal attack spell and just adds to hit, he doesn't agree.
What do yall think?
As far as RAW (Rules As Written) the paladin is able to use divine smite on any attack they make, even Opportunity Attacks.
The trigger is simply, "when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack"
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You can even use divine smite on a melee weapon attack that's part of a spell or that triggers the effect of a spell. This means you could Thunderous Smite, Booming Blade and divine smite on the Booming Blade attack.
You are the correct one sir the trigger is hitting not making an attack and there is no limit printed in the book as to how many smites per turn you can use since you aren't casting a spell you are burning a spell slot for extra damage.
You don't even have to declare you are using divine smite until you successfully hit.
Adding Smite to an attack is 100% independent of the "Attack Action". It has no limitations on the amount of times it can be applied per round. It is only limited by requiring a melee weapon attack (Regular attack, SCAG melee cantrips, bonus action attacks, attacks of opportunity, etc.), and limited to one Smite per weapon attack (not action).
You can absolutely use Smite again (spending an additional spell slot) on your second attack from Extra Attack. This is the Gold Standard of playing a Paladin; players & DMs expect this from Paladins.
Your DM is certainly free to houserule that capability out of the class for their campaigns, but that is also something that they should have discussed with you prior to starting the campaign. I'm assuming that you started at level 1 (or at least not your current level), so I would find it hard to believe that your DM had no idea this would come up at level 5. However, I'd still give the DM the benefit of the doubt in that they do actually misunderstand the ability, and hopefully this should clear everything up for them.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Our DM has seen the forum and has just gone with the excuse that you may not know all 5e rules...
Well that sucks then because they are 100% wrong on this one, and I call BS on their excuse because the Paladin forum here is littered with threads that reference this particular mechanic. It's clear. :/
[edit]
Are you absolutely sure that they are not mistaking the Divine Smite class feature with the "Wrathful, Searing, Binding, etc. Smite" spells?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I am absolutely sure
They're welcome to amend the rules of D&D as they see fit - it's one of the great things about D&D, that it embraces each group customising the rules as they want.
The (RAW) rules as written is very clear.
That doesn't mean that you have to use it in your games.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Sounds like you just have a bad, obstinate DM. Sorry dude.
Have they shown you where this non-existing "phantom rule" is listed in one of the source books? Shown you one of Jeremy Crawford's statements saying Divine Smite is limited to 1/round? Oh, right... they don't exist!
These do:
Found those with a 15 second google search. Your DM is wrong on this issue (RAW and RAI), references a core rule that doesn't exist, and won't acknowledge that their decision is just a house rule? Yikes.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a DM changing anything they want with the game, but that only works when they are open and transparent about it (and not in an AL campaign). They don't like the idea of your Paladin being able to do a lot of nova damage with your resources? That's sorta one of the Paladin's main features, but okay... as long as they told you prior to starting the campaign (which I take it they didn't).
Without having the same level of context as yourself, my experience tells me that your DM falls into the category of DMs that put their own control & enjoyment above all else.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It's one thing to have your DM make an incorrect ruling.
It's considerably worse when he's shown proof that he's incorrect and responds by making excuses and digging in his heels.
I'd recommend a different strategy: find a better DM. And I hope you'll have more fun in your future campaigns.
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Might be a bit late in this case, but one thing that seems to work for me when dealing with DM rulings is rather than tell them that they're flat out wrong, tell them that its fine if they want to change the rule to no longer allow smite on the second hit. This makes it clear that they're in charge while also making it clear that that's not the actual rule. More often than not I've had such rule changes either immediately revoked or had them only last until the end of the session.
Obviously every DM can tweak the rules to suit them, but based on the official rules as written and intended, your DM is incorrect. The problem seems to stem from your DM thinking because you're spending a spell slot that you're casting a spell. You're not. The spell slot in this instance is only a resource being expended, like a Battle Master's Superiority Dice. The only prerequisite for when you can use Divine Smite is "when you hit a creature with a melee attack". This means a) you decide to use the ability when you HIT, not when you attack, so you don't waste it on an attack that misses and you learn whether it's a crit before deciding to use it, and b) there is no restriction on WHEN the successful melee attack happens. It can be any or all attacks made during the Attack action, it can be the Bonus Action attack taken under the rules for two-weapon fighting, it can be an Opportunity Attack, the retaliation attack made via the Sentinel feat, even the attack made during Booming/Green-Flame Blade. And the only resource expended by Divine Smite is a spell slot. It does not use your Bonus Action or Reaction, which are limited per turn/round, so you can use it as often as you can hit with an attack. As an extreme example, if you were multiclassed with at least 11 levels of Ranger(Hunter), and use Whirlwind Attack, you could be in a situation where you'd make melee attacks against up to 8 creatures. You could use a spell slot on every one of those attacks that hit, assuming you have enough(after calculating your total spell slots with the rules for multiclassing).
To your DM if they visit this thread again, I would appreciate you citing the rules text that you feel justifies your interpretation of the Divine Smite ability. I believe your interpretation is incorrect, but rather than just wag my finger and say you're wrong, I would like to hear your side beyond "because I said so".
The downside to this approach is that the ruling in question weakens one of the Paladin's core abilities, potentially to a significant degree. It's the kind of houserule that I would want to know ahead of time before I chose to roll up a Paladin.
I would ask the DM on what rule he is basing himself to say that you can't do it, might help clear out the issue.
But yeah, paladins can smite as long as they have spell slots...
To add on that, they can smite with any spellslots they gain from multiclassing as well (since it now converts to one table), even Pact magic slots.
"Hey, you can only use melee attack on 2nd attack." - Com'on man!!!!!!
Ninja
Why are you reviving a thread from over 2 years ago to not even contribute to the discussion?
So with my paladin pc, we're going to try asking his deity for a divine smite before he makes his attack roll. If it lands, he gets his divine strike but if he misses, his request was ignored (therefore not using his spell slot.)
The idea is that he can't wait until after his hit landed to check and see if he crit or not and from a flavor stand point, it makes sense for the divine smite to be with his weapon rather than him slashing someone and THEN spending a spell slot that burns afterwards or however that would work.
And if anyone still curious about the answer to the thread, you can divine smite once per attack on any attacks in any round, provided you have to spell slot to expend. It's not an actual spell so it can be triggered more than once per round/ turn
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