I picked up Find Familiar for my character a couple months ago and it's been invaluable. Took mine as an Owl for its Flyby and Keen Hearing And Sight features. The advantage on perception checks alone has made it worth spell slot, not to mention the ability to flip my awareness between different locations. So far it's only been KO'd once, and that was cause we both got caught in an AoE attack.
Picked up Booming Blade too, but have only used it twice since I acquired it. Close quarters combat is still pretty deadly to me (only just got Uncanny Dodge and haven't been in a fight since the level up) so I'm rarely within melee range to use it. Haven't worked out how to melee-rogue yet, but working on it.
This is true but so far I've found that ranged attack -> bonus action Hide is better for my survivability. Particularly if I can't get out of movement range before the enemy's next turn.
Might just be noob talk but I'm finding I get hit less when I'm straight up unseen, as opposed to easily shot or moved-to-and-attacked.
This is true but so far I've found that ranged attack -> bonus action Hide is better for my survivability. Particularly if I can't get out of movement range before the enemy's next turn.
Might just be noob talk but I'm finding I get hit less when I'm straight up unseen, as opposed to easily shot or moved-to-and-attacked.
My first character was an Arcane Trickster, and with a Paladin and a Moon Druid in the party both playing tanky characters, it was easy for me to move into melee range and get sneak attack from the adjacency bonus and then bonus action disengage to run away, and the enemy would stay to attack one of the two tanks rather than giving them an opportunity attack to go chase me.
If you have melee allies, it'll be easy for you to do the same thing - find an enemy that is next to your ally, and you can get sneak attack on it without having to hide. And if you bonus action disengage and run away, they're not likely to chase you because they would have to give your ally an opportunity attack in order to go chase you. Even if you have just one melee ally, this would work. But if your party doesn't have any other melee characters, then you should stick to being a ranged character, and your party is going to have to do a weird kiting & crowd control strategy (hopefully someone has Ray of Frost) if your party has no other melee people in it. But if there are other melee people in it, it shouldn't be too hard to learn to play a melee Rogue.
My third character is a Gloom Stalker 3 Rogue 2 that is going to be an Arcane Trickster at the next level. I took Medium Armor Master at level 1 as a variant human, and the Defense Fighting Style at level 2, so I had 20 AC at level 2 (and at level 3 I became a Human with dark vision). I'll be playing the extremely unorthodox Arcane Trickster tank soon. But even a normal Arcane Trickster with 15 to 17 AC and a D8 hit die (and Uncanny Dodge) is not that squishy. And if there's a Wizard in your party that took the spell find familiar, then you can go with the spell shield as your level 1 spell from any school. Uncanny Dodge gives a huge boost to your survivability if you can make sure that only one enemy is attacking you each round. Opportunity attacks are the best use of your reaction, but if enemies aren't running away and are staying to attack you, it's important to take advantage of shield or Uncanny Dodge.
I think going with find familiar or shield is the best choice almost all of the time for your any school spell at level 3.
I would replace Silent Image with Mage Hand especially because of the extra things that the Arcane Trickster can do with Mage Hand Legerdemain.
You can disarm traps, pick locks, open doors, and do so many other things from 30ft away. There are so many things that fall under the "manipulate an object" part of the spell.
This is true but so far I've found that ranged attack -> bonus action Hide is better for my survivability. Particularly if I can't get out of movement range before the enemy's next turn.
Might just be noob talk but I'm finding I get hit less when I'm straight up unseen, as opposed to easily shot or moved-to-and-attacked.
My first character was an Arcane Trickster, and with a Paladin and a Moon Druid in the party both playing tanky characters, it was easy for me to move into melee range and get sneak attack from the adjacency bonus and then bonus action disengage to run away, and the enemy would stay to attack one of the two tanks rather than giving them an opportunity attack to go chase me.
If you have melee allies, it'll be easy for you to do the same thing - find an enemy that is next to your ally, and you can get sneak attack on it without having to hide. And if you bonus action disengage and run away, they're not likely to chase you because they would have to give your ally an opportunity attack in order to go chase you. Even if you have just one melee ally, this would work. But if your party doesn't have any other melee characters, then you should stick to being a ranged character, and your party is going to have to do a weird kiting & crowd control strategy (hopefully someone has Ray of Frost) if your party has no other melee people in it. But if there are other melee people in it, it shouldn't be too hard to learn to play a melee Rogue.
My third character is a Gloom Stalker 3 Rogue 2 that is going to be an Arcane Trickster at the next level. I took Medium Armor Master at level 1 as a variant human, and the Defense Fighting Style at level 2, so I had 20 AC at level 2 (and at level 3 I became a Human with dark vision). I'll be playing the extremely unorthodox Arcane Trickster tank soon. But even a normal Arcane Trickster with 15 to 17 AC and a D8 hit die (and Uncanny Dodge) is not that squishy. And if there's a Wizard in your party that took the spell find familiar, then you can go with the spell shield as your level 1 spell from any school. Uncanny Dodge gives a huge boost to your survivability if you can make sure that only one enemy is attacking you each round. Opportunity attacks are the best use of your reaction, but if enemies aren't running away and are staying to attack you, it's important to take advantage of shield or Uncanny Dodge.
I think going with find familiar or shield is the best choice almost all of the time for your any school spell at level 3.
Our party balance isn't the best. We have one melee combatant (Fighter/Cavalier) and a cleric who is sometimes melee but mostly support. Other than that it's an Arcane Archer, a Lore Bard and my Arcane Trickster. Our cavalier tries their best but gets overwhelmed pretty quick and aggro usually turns to the rest of us once we start laying down the dps.
We had a wizard, but they died back at level 3. And our Bard hasn't stepped up to fill the gap so I've been carrying the utility spells (like identify and feather fall and find familiar etc.). I had shield for a little while but changed it out feather fall, which has saved our asses on more than one occasion. Plus it didn't feel great to use one of the very few spell slots I have just for shield.
So for the moment my strategy is shoot-move-hide, shoot-move-hide. My AC is currently only 15, but soon as I get a chance to raise it I'm definitely gonna.
Really if you want to be a melee rogue you're best off taking the Mobile feat. Sure you still get sneak attack with an ally next to the enemy, but you attack with advantage if you're hidden. The best benefit of melee attacking with Mobile is that if you don't have anywhere to hide, you can attack twice with two-weapon fighting and still get out of dodge.
I would replace Silent Image with Mage Hand especially because of the extra things that the Arcane Trickster can do with Mage Hand Legerdemain.
You can disarm traps, pick locks, open doors, and do so many other things from 30ft away. There are so many things that fall under the "manipulate an object" part of the spell.
I would replace Silent Image with Mage Hand especially because of the extra things that the Arcane Trickster can do with Mage Hand Legerdemain.
You can disarm traps, pick locks, open doors, and do so many other things from 30ft away. There are so many things that fall under the "manipulate an object" part of the spell.
You already get Mage Hand as an Arcane Trickster.
Correct. But just because you automatically get it doesn't mean that it's not one of your best spells.
Plus it didn't feel great to use one of the very few spell slots I have just for shield.
I learned Silent Image, Charm Person, and Disguise Self in the first campaign, but I don't think I ever used any of those three spells, and I only cast Find Familiar once. We don't get many spells slots, but I don't find any of the level 1 Enchantment and Illusion spells to be that special. Level 2 Enchantment and Illusion spells are fantastic, though.
Yeah, I used Minor Illusion a bunch of times, but never Silent Image.
With a higher charisma character (and more of a personal interest in deception and impersonation), and with more opportunities where I separated myself from the party, I would definitely use Disguise Self. But I had a 9 in charisma, and our party doesn't seem to let people go off on their own to do things. When the other people in your party don't have Disguise Self, and they're not letting you go off on your own, the spell is much less useful (although there still will be ways to use it).
I think one of the main reasons we don't let people go off on their own is that it would result in that one person hogging the play time while they're doing their thing on their own. I'm fine with that, but some of the other people in the group don't seem as inclined to create these situations where one member of the party gets to have some time all to themselves.
To use disguise self without splitting the party you want to disguise as a specific person that would be able to let the rest of the party into a restricted area instead of just using it to hide your own identity. You're also going to want some skill in deception, especially if you don't have high cha.
Plus it didn't feel great to use one of the very few spell slots I have just for shield.
I learned Silent Image, Charm Person, and Disguise Self in the first campaign, but I don't think I ever used any of those three spells, and I only cast Find Familiar once. We don't get many spells slots, but I don't find any of the level 1 Enchantment and Illusion spells to be that special. Level 2 Enchantment and Illusion spells are fantastic, though.
My rogue is a tiefling so I got one use of Disguise Self as a racial bonus. Didn't end up taking it as an Arcane Trickster, cause my DC is real low. In fact I've avoided taking any spells that have a DC cause my INT is low so enemies would easily beat my DC.
DC of illusions only matters if people doubt that they are real, as long as your other skills cover it, they should never even roll a check against the illusion.
Well I have Minor Illusion as a racial trait cantrip, and NPC's have rolled against it almost every time I've cast it in any tactical fashion. They only don't roll if I've used it as an obvious illusion or for entertainment purposes. But anything like covering an escape, creating a distraction... anything useful has invoked a roll against my DC.
Well I have Minor Illusion as a racial trait cantrip, and NPC's have rolled against it almost every time I've cast it in any tactical fashion. They only don't roll if I've used it as an obvious illusion or for entertainment purposes. But anything like covering an escape, creating a distraction... anything useful has invoked a roll against my DC.
While this stinks of metagaming on the DMs part, at least you're burning their actions checking out the illusion, unless they're skipping that as well.
DC of illusions only matters if people doubt that they are real, as long as your other skills cover it, they should never even roll a check against the illusion.
In most situations, I would say that the DM should be having you roll a deception check which you would have to fail before the enemy has to roll to inspect your disguise. If you're interacting with people, or even just being observed by people, I think its appropriate for the DM to make you do a deception skill check. It can be anything from a very easy skill check (DC5) to a nearly impossible skill check (DC30) depending on what you tell the DM you're trying to pass yourself off as, and how much your interacting with the people that you're trying to deceive.
Of course, if you're trying to get into the King's Armory, and you need to get past some guards, even a great roll on a deception check shouldn't keep them from inspecting your disguise, although a great roll might give them disadvantage on their investigation.
It does work since one of the actions is on your opponents turn Do your turn in this order: 1) Use your Hasted action to attack and do sneak attack damage (technically you'd need to be hiding from your last turn to do this or have a friend within 5 ft of enemy) 2) Use your bonus action to Hide (preparing your next sneak attack) 3) Use your normal Action to Ready your action to attack should the enemy attack or move or be alive or something (anything that would trigger the readied action) Since this readied action happens on your opponent's turn, not your own, you can apply sneak attack damage to it the same as you would had you applied sneak attack damage to an attack of opportunity
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I picked up Find Familiar for my character a couple months ago and it's been invaluable. Took mine as an Owl for its Flyby and Keen Hearing And Sight features. The advantage on perception checks alone has made it worth spell slot, not to mention the ability to flip my awareness between different locations. So far it's only been KO'd once, and that was cause we both got caught in an AoE attack.
Picked up Booming Blade too, but have only used it twice since I acquired it. Close quarters combat is still pretty deadly to me (only just got Uncanny Dodge and haven't been in a fight since the level up) so I'm rarely within melee range to use it. Haven't worked out how to melee-rogue yet, but working on it.
Bonus action disengage is very useful.
It sure is. The Mobile feat is even better, if you can get it.
This is true but so far I've found that ranged attack -> bonus action Hide is better for my survivability. Particularly if I can't get out of movement range before the enemy's next turn.
Might just be noob talk but I'm finding I get hit less when I'm straight up unseen, as opposed to easily shot or moved-to-and-attacked.
My first character was an Arcane Trickster, and with a Paladin and a Moon Druid in the party both playing tanky characters, it was easy for me to move into melee range and get sneak attack from the adjacency bonus and then bonus action disengage to run away, and the enemy would stay to attack one of the two tanks rather than giving them an opportunity attack to go chase me.
If you have melee allies, it'll be easy for you to do the same thing - find an enemy that is next to your ally, and you can get sneak attack on it without having to hide. And if you bonus action disengage and run away, they're not likely to chase you because they would have to give your ally an opportunity attack in order to go chase you. Even if you have just one melee ally, this would work. But if your party doesn't have any other melee characters, then you should stick to being a ranged character, and your party is going to have to do a weird kiting & crowd control strategy (hopefully someone has Ray of Frost) if your party has no other melee people in it. But if there are other melee people in it, it shouldn't be too hard to learn to play a melee Rogue.
My third character is a Gloom Stalker 3 Rogue 2 that is going to be an Arcane Trickster at the next level. I took Medium Armor Master at level 1 as a variant human, and the Defense Fighting Style at level 2, so I had 20 AC at level 2 (and at level 3 I became a Human with dark vision). I'll be playing the extremely unorthodox Arcane Trickster tank soon. But even a normal Arcane Trickster with 15 to 17 AC and a D8 hit die (and Uncanny Dodge) is not that squishy. And if there's a Wizard in your party that took the spell find familiar, then you can go with the spell shield as your level 1 spell from any school. Uncanny Dodge gives a huge boost to your survivability if you can make sure that only one enemy is attacking you each round. Opportunity attacks are the best use of your reaction, but if enemies aren't running away and are staying to attack you, it's important to take advantage of shield or Uncanny Dodge.
I think going with find familiar or shield is the best choice almost all of the time for your any school spell at level 3.
I would replace Silent Image with Mage Hand especially because of the extra things that the Arcane Trickster can do with Mage Hand Legerdemain.
You can disarm traps, pick locks, open doors, and do so many other things from 30ft away. There are so many things that fall under the "manipulate an object" part of the spell.
Our party balance isn't the best. We have one melee combatant (Fighter/Cavalier) and a cleric who is sometimes melee but mostly support. Other than that it's an Arcane Archer, a Lore Bard and my Arcane Trickster. Our cavalier tries their best but gets overwhelmed pretty quick and aggro usually turns to the rest of us once we start laying down the dps.
We had a wizard, but they died back at level 3. And our Bard hasn't stepped up to fill the gap so I've been carrying the utility spells (like identify and feather fall and find familiar etc.). I had shield for a little while but changed it out feather fall, which has saved our asses on more than one occasion. Plus it didn't feel great to use one of the very few spell slots I have just for shield.
So for the moment my strategy is shoot-move-hide, shoot-move-hide. My AC is currently only 15, but soon as I get a chance to raise it I'm definitely gonna.
Really if you want to be a melee rogue you're best off taking the Mobile feat. Sure you still get sneak attack with an ally next to the enemy, but you attack with advantage if you're hidden. The best benefit of melee attacking with Mobile is that if you don't have anywhere to hide, you can attack twice with two-weapon fighting and still get out of dodge.
You already get Mage Hand as an Arcane Trickster.
Correct. But just because you automatically get it doesn't mean that it's not one of your best spells.
I learned Silent Image, Charm Person, and Disguise Self in the first campaign, but I don't think I ever used any of those three spells, and I only cast Find Familiar once. We don't get many spells slots, but I don't find any of the level 1 Enchantment and Illusion spells to be that special. Level 2 Enchantment and Illusion spells are fantastic, though.
I use Silent Image and Minor Illusion for distracting guards and such. Disguise Self has helped me trick my way into places as well.
Yeah, I used Minor Illusion a bunch of times, but never Silent Image.
With a higher charisma character (and more of a personal interest in deception and impersonation), and with more opportunities where I separated myself from the party, I would definitely use Disguise Self. But I had a 9 in charisma, and our party doesn't seem to let people go off on their own to do things. When the other people in your party don't have Disguise Self, and they're not letting you go off on your own, the spell is much less useful (although there still will be ways to use it).
I think one of the main reasons we don't let people go off on their own is that it would result in that one person hogging the play time while they're doing their thing on their own. I'm fine with that, but some of the other people in the group don't seem as inclined to create these situations where one member of the party gets to have some time all to themselves.
To use disguise self without splitting the party you want to disguise as a specific person that would be able to let the rest of the party into a restricted area instead of just using it to hide your own identity. You're also going to want some skill in deception, especially if you don't have high cha.
My rogue is a tiefling so I got one use of Disguise Self as a racial bonus. Didn't end up taking it as an Arcane Trickster, cause my DC is real low. In fact I've avoided taking any spells that have a DC cause my INT is low so enemies would easily beat my DC.
DC of illusions only matters if people doubt that they are real, as long as your other skills cover it, they should never even roll a check against the illusion.
Well I have Minor Illusion as a racial trait cantrip, and NPC's have rolled against it almost every time I've cast it in any tactical fashion. They only don't roll if I've used it as an obvious illusion or for entertainment purposes. But anything like covering an escape, creating a distraction... anything useful has invoked a roll against my DC.
While this stinks of metagaming on the DMs part, at least you're burning their actions checking out the illusion, unless they're skipping that as well.
In most situations, I would say that the DM should be having you roll a deception check which you would have to fail before the enemy has to roll to inspect your disguise. If you're interacting with people, or even just being observed by people, I think its appropriate for the DM to make you do a deception skill check. It can be anything from a very easy skill check (DC5) to a nearly impossible skill check (DC30) depending on what you tell the DM you're trying to pass yourself off as, and how much your interacting with the people that you're trying to deceive.
Of course, if you're trying to get into the King's Armory, and you need to get past some guards, even a great roll on a deception check shouldn't keep them from inspecting your disguise, although a great roll might give them disadvantage on their investigation.
It does work since one of the actions is on your opponents turn
Do your turn in this order:
1) Use your Hasted action to attack and do sneak attack damage (technically you'd need to be hiding from your last turn to do this or have a friend within 5 ft of enemy)
2) Use your bonus action to Hide (preparing your next sneak attack)
3) Use your normal Action to Ready your action to attack should the enemy attack or move or be alive or something (anything that would trigger the readied action)
Since this readied action happens on your opponent's turn, not your own, you can apply sneak attack damage to it the same as you would had you applied sneak attack damage to an attack of opportunity