Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.
Yeah, I'm still from the old school of the Drow Matriarchy society. I would think Zinzerena would be the her family patron. Perhaps this was a secret sect for females to practice magic. We don't get too far down the rabbit hole on backgrounds, but Zinzerena is noted as a CN aligned diety, and her holy symbol of a shortsword translates nicely to a rogue character.
Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.
Not exclusively. House Shobalar was a house of female wizards. IIRC they split away from House Xorlarrin at some point. House Oblodra were psions. Of course the Lolthites put them down rather quickly. One would also assume in Sshamath that females looking for power tend towards Wizardry, but I have not seen any canon on that. Nurissa Vyllshan was one such female practitioner from the City of Dark Weavings. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nurissa_Vyllshan Alexa is another: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Alexa. Another is Shurdriira Helviiryn, head of the College of Alteration https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shurdriira_Helviiryn. My guess is that women could indeed seek power via the arcane paths in Sshamath.
While in the Lolthite cities, it's certainly true that females tend towards priestly callings, we've only /truly/ seen much detail on a single city, with a few hints and images of a couple other Lolthite cities. Nothing's really overly detailed on some of the non-Lolthite cities (of which several are canon).
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.
I believe that gender pioneers in practical terms don't mean much. As in it is more of a matter of historians and egotist on weather it's a gender or another. through out history because something was traditional didn't mean tradition wasn't broken for one reason or another. Infinite number of circumstances can lead to gender roles being reversed. For example my mother is a self starter, thoughtful and strong willed, while my father is a here and now, impulsive and is still strong willed. Aka, mom leads dad helps.
Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.
I believe that gender pioneers in practical terms don't mean much. As in it is more of a matter of historians and egotist on weather it's a gender or another. through out history because something was traditional didn't mean tradition wasn't broken for one reason or another. Infinite number of circumstances can lead to gender roles being reversed. For example my mother is a self starter, thoughtful and strong willed, while my father is a here and now, impulsive and is still strong willed. Aka, mom leads dad helps.
Cool. I basically agree with you.
You know a lot about hobgoblins. What plane do the goblinoid deities live on? Acheron or the Nine Hells?
Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.
I believe that gender pioneers in practical terms don't mean much. As in it is more of a matter of historians and egotist on weather it's a gender or another. through out history because something was traditional didn't mean tradition wasn't broken for one reason or another. Infinite number of circumstances can lead to gender roles being reversed. For example my mother is a self starter, thoughtful and strong willed, while my father is a here and now, impulsive and is still strong willed. Aka, mom leads dad helps.
Cool. I basically agree with you.
You know a lot about hobgoblins. What plane do the goblinoid deities live on? Acheron or the Nine Hells?
That would be Clangor located in Avalas the first layer Acheron, but recently they have became exarchs of bane. So, maybe their mailing address is now the nine hells.
Arcane Trickster is the best subclass in my opinion. It weaves magic into the rogue and if you're trying for that magical master thief, I think its just a masterpiece. I recently played one for a few months in our campaign, and within 2 sessions I went from no gear bar starting equipment, to the richest and most well equipped member of the party. The others had been going for 6months+ at this point. All of this was through using the spells available to the class, and a familiar, to enhance the thievery portion of the class. I'd recommend anyone and everything to try this amazing subclass out.
Arcane Trickster is the best subclass in my opinion. It weaves magic into the rogue and if you're trying for that magical master thief, I think its just a masterpiece. I recently played one for a few months in our campaign, and within 2 sessions I went from no gear bar starting equipment, to the richest and most well equipped member of the party. The others had been going for 6months+ at this point. All of this was through using the spells available to the class, and a familiar, to enhance the thievery portion of the class. I'd recommend anyone and everything to try this amazing subclass out.
I'm just loving the possibilities of Booming Blade with Sneak Attacks, using the enhanced Mage Hand and leveraging spells like Disguise Self. Adding in playing a Drow with the Drow Magic feat, I'd be able to Detect Magic at will, attempt to disarm or bypass magical traps & wards with Dispel Magic, and have Identify to figure out what they do. I love the utility flexible without the multiclass dip.
Arcane Trickster is the best subclass in my opinion. It weaves magic into the rogue and if you're trying for that magical master thief, I think its just a masterpiece. I recently played one for a few months in our campaign, and within 2 sessions I went from no gear bar starting equipment, to the richest and most well equipped member of the party. The others had been going for 6months+ at this point. All of this was through using the spells available to the class, and a familiar, to enhance the thievery portion of the class. I'd recommend anyone and everything to try this amazing subclass out.
I'm just loving the possibilities of Booming Blade with Sneak Attacks, using the enhanced Mage Hand and leveraging spells like Disguise Self. Adding in playing a Drow with the Drow Magic feat, I'd be able to Detect Magic at will, attempt to disarm or bypass magical traps & wards with Dispel Magic, and have Identify to figure out what they do. I love the utility flexible without the multiclass dip.
Rogue's utility is what makes them one of my go to classes. Adding magic to it is just gravy.
Okay, personally I think magic is extremely useful and DMs should be thinking on how to remove magic from play from time to time.
I also found adding in the Actor feat, for perfect mimicry and all the other features, combined with all the aforementioned, just added another level to its uses.
I know you are probably in love with the Drow characterization and indeed Drow Magic is a great feat.
But so as Wood Elf and the Wood Elf Magic feat. You are able to get Guidance, probably the best cantrip in the game that will reinforce your already terrific skill checks big time. Longstrider is a good spell and it will increase your speed. But the real shining star of this feat is Pass Without Trace; Stealth low rolls and fumbles are no longer a threat for you. Your noisy Fighters and Clerics will not ruin your silent attempts of surprise anymore. Just awesome.
Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.
I believe that gender pioneers in practical terms don't mean much. As in it is more of a matter of historians and egotist on weather it's a gender or another. through out history because something was traditional didn't mean tradition wasn't broken for one reason or another. Infinite number of circumstances can lead to gender roles being reversed. For example my mother is a self starter, thoughtful and strong willed, while my father is a here and now, impulsive and is still strong willed. Aka, mom leads dad helps.
Cool. I basically agree with you.
You know a lot about hobgoblins. What plane do the goblinoid deities live on? Acheron or the Nine Hells?
That would be Clangor located in Avalas the first layer Acheron, but recently they have became exarchs of bane. So, maybe their mailing address is now the nine hells.
It seems pretty cool, but I’m wondering how the Arcane Trickster would stack up against a multi-classed rogue/wizard, especially if they were specialized in illusion or enchantment.
Just Shield and Booming Blade are game changers for the Rogue, and there are many other great spells you can use. In my opinion the Arcane Trickster is both the most fun, and the most effective Rogue (not discounting that there are a couple other great choices as well). The Rogue abilities you can gain through the levels are great. I would not sacrifice them to MC, personally.
The Arcane Trickster is most similar to pathfinder’s Eldritch Scoundrel. It doesn’t have enough spell levels. Waiting until level 7 to cast 2nd level spells is too late to make them useful. You’re not even a backup caster if the wizard or sorcerer goes down. It would be better if it was more similar to the Arcane Trickster from 3.5e and Pathfinder.
Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights aren't primary casters, they're third casters (have one third of the spells and slots of a full caster) so you shouldn't try to use them that way; the spell casting is there to supplement the main class (Rogue or Fighter respectively).
In other words, the best way to use an Arcane Trickster is to use magic to supplement your Rogue abilities; disguise, stealth, plus some staples for protecting yourself, or distracting/hindering enemies.
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The arcane trickster shines when you don't use it for combat. Nondetection, Disguise Self, creative use of Mage Hand, Suggestion, Charm Person, Enemies Abound, Detect Magic, Alter Self, Knock, Arcane Eye, Dispel Magic and Misty Step are all staples I consider for arcane tricksters when putting together their spell lists.
The addition of magic makes them truly excel at the rogue staples and get past the fact that rogues aren't all too great at getting past magical wards to stop people stealing things (when they sneak past the guards but then trip the Alarm spell they have no means of dealing with, your sneaky thief is in trouble).
It's also worth noting that Arcane Tricksters use the wizard spell list; it's just that only 4 maximum of the spells they actually learn can be outside of school limitations. That means they can just use items (particularly spell scrolls) that are dependent on user spell list without needing an actual level of wizard, although they can't attune to any item that mandates attunement by a wizard. If you have an actual wizard in the party, your ability to use spell scrolls the wizard makes for you should not be overlooked.
the arcane trickster shines when you don't use it for combat. Nondetection, Disguise Self, creative use of Mage Hand, Suggestion, Charm Person, Enemies Abound, Detect Magic, Alter Self, Knock, Arcane Eye, Dispel Magic and Misty Step are all staples I consider for arcane tricksters when putting together their spell lists.
The addition of magic makes them truly excel at the rogue staples and get past the fact that rogues aren't all too great at getting past magical wards to stop people stealing things (when they sneak past the guards but then trip the Alarm spell they have no means of dealing with, your sneaky thief is in trouble).
Thanks! I really like the Arcane Trickster archetype.
A level 5 arcane trickster rogue apart from the base rogue things can use an invisible mage hand (gith can do this) and cast level 1 spells... level 1 spells let that sink in. So I thought to myself, "Hmmm maybe due to their limited spell casting it should be used for buffs instead, helping to give an advantage in getting in and out of combat." so I looked at the level one spells on offer. If i was a building a thief character what would benefit me: Silent image, feather fall, expeditious retreat (useless since rogues can already bonus action dash), shield, disguise self (useless disguise kit), find familiar (useful for scouting not like the wizard cant do that), long stride (10 feet really isn't worth one of your little spell slots) and bla bla going for spells that buff and could possibly help me achieve peak ROUGENESS because gaining attack spells have little to no use. The highest damage spell you can achieve is a burning hands which is a genuine good spell but it doesn't bring anything to the rogue playstyle. You are sacrificing 3d6 consistent damage for free on top of weapon attacks by going something like swashbuckler for a 1 time 3d6 limp dick casting of burning hands of which the wizard next to you is already upcasting. At the end of the day do what you want and maybe the class comes into itself at later levels and as a concept ye arcane trickster is cool but practically I think the subclass was made the wrong way and maybe if it had class specific spells or maybe it could sneak attack on spells which would be insane but instead its dead weight that can do a little of rogue and a pixy dick of wizard coming out as a watered down salt water.
This is not an attack on people who love this class, this is me voicing my frustration from my party members picking this class to spam fire bolt and complain they deal no damage. If you want to cast spells and be sneaky make a wizard and mess with it. If you want to use spells to be a better rogue make a wizard friend or multiclass this isn't the arcane trickster for you
A level 5 arcane trickster rogue apart from the base rogue things can use an invisible mage hand (gith can do this) and cast level 1 spells... level 1 spells let that sink in. So I thought to myself, "Hmmm maybe due to their limited spell casting it should be used for buffs instead, helping to give an advantage in getting in and out of combat." so I looked at the level one spells on offer. If i was a building a thief character what would benefit me: Silent image, feather fall, expeditious retreat (useless since rogues can already bonus action dash), shield, disguise self (useless disguise kit), find familiar (useful for scouting not like the wizard cant do that), long stride (10 feet really isn't worth one of your little spell slots) and bla bla going for spells that buff and could possibly help me achieve peak ROUGENESS because gaining attack spells have little to no use. The highest damage spell you can achieve is a burning hands which is a genuine good spell but it doesn't bring anything to the rogue playstyle. You are sacrificing 3d6 consistent damage for free on top of weapon attacks by going something like swashbuckler for a 1 time 3d6 limp dick casting of burning hands of which the wizard next to you is already upcasting. At the end of the day do what you want and maybe the class comes into itself at later levels and as a concept ye arcane trickster is cool but practically I think the subclass was made the wrong way and maybe if it had class specific spells or maybe it could sneak attack on spells which would be insane but instead its dead weight that can do a little of rogue and a pixy dick of wizard coming out as a watered down salt water.
This is not an attack on people who love this class, this is me voicing my frustration from my party members picking this class to spam fire bolt and complain they deal no damage. If you want to cast spells and be sneaky make a wizard and mess with it. If you want to use spells to be a better rogue make a wizard friend or multiclass this isn't the arcane trickster for you
A level 5 arcane trickster rogue apart from the base rogue things can use an invisible mage hand (gith can do this) and cast level 1 spells... level 1 spells let that sink in. So I thought to myself, "Hmmm maybe due to their limited spell casting it should be used for buffs instead, helping to give an advantage in getting in and out of combat." so I looked at the level one spells on offer. If i was a building a thief character what would benefit me: Silent image, feather fall, expeditious retreat (useless since rogues can already bonus action dash), shield, disguise self (useless disguise kit), find familiar (useful for scouting not like the wizard cant do that), long stride (10 feet really isn't worth one of your little spell slots) and bla bla going for spells that buff and could possibly help me achieve peak ROUGENESS because gaining attack spells have little to no use. The highest damage spell you can achieve is a burning hands which is a genuine good spell but it doesn't bring anything to the rogue playstyle. You are sacrificing 3d6 consistent damage for free on top of weapon attacks by going something like swashbuckler for a 1 time 3d6 limp dick casting of burning hands of which the wizard next to you is already upcasting. At the end of the day do what you want and maybe the class comes into itself at later levels and as a concept ye arcane trickster is cool but practically I think the subclass was made the wrong way and maybe if it had class specific spells or maybe it could sneak attack on spells which would be insane but instead its dead weight that can do a little of rogue and a pixy dick of wizard coming out as a watered down salt water.
This is not an attack on people who love this class, this is me voicing my frustration from my party members picking this class to spam fire bolt and complain they deal no damage. If you want to cast spells and be sneaky make a wizard and mess with it. If you want to use spells to be a better rogue make a wizard friend or multiclass this isn't the arcane trickster for you
If someone is playing AT to use Firebolt; they are far from playing optimal. What the subclass does extremely well is gish with cantrips like Booming Blade that stack nicely with your Sneak Attack. The spells you can use are often better for non-combat situations. Disguise Self on a Rogue is a nice deal. And the Mage Hand Legerdemain is powerful to disarm traps from a distance, pickpocket, or move small objects discreetly.
At level 5 the AT does 3d6 Sneak Attack, plus has its limited first level spells. A wizard-rogue multi is doing 2d6 Sneak Attack, and if you take 3 levels of Wizard for level 2 spells you aren't even getting to a Rogue subclass. Can't be a better Rogue by slowing down progression on the Rogue class.
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Yeah, I'm still from the old school of the Drow Matriarchy society. I would think Zinzerena would be the her family patron. Perhaps this was a secret sect for females to practice magic. We don't get too far down the rabbit hole on backgrounds, but Zinzerena is noted as a CN aligned diety, and her holy symbol of a shortsword translates nicely to a rogue character.
Not exclusively. House Shobalar was a house of female wizards. IIRC they split away from House Xorlarrin at some point. House Oblodra were psions. Of course the Lolthites put them down rather quickly. One would also assume in Sshamath that females looking for power tend towards Wizardry, but I have not seen any canon on that. Nurissa Vyllshan was one such female practitioner from the City of Dark Weavings. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nurissa_Vyllshan Alexa is another: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Alexa. Another is Shurdriira Helviiryn, head of the College of Alteration https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shurdriira_Helviiryn. My guess is that women could indeed seek power via the arcane paths in Sshamath.
While in the Lolthite cities, it's certainly true that females tend towards priestly callings, we've only /truly/ seen much detail on a single city, with a few hints and images of a couple other Lolthite cities. Nothing's really overly detailed on some of the non-Lolthite cities (of which several are canon).
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I believe that gender pioneers in practical terms don't mean much. As in it is more of a matter of historians and egotist on weather it's a gender or another. through out history because something was traditional didn't mean tradition wasn't broken for one reason or another. Infinite number of circumstances can lead to gender roles being reversed. For example my mother is a self starter, thoughtful and strong willed, while my father is a here and now, impulsive and is still strong willed. Aka, mom leads dad helps.
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
Cool. I basically agree with you.
You know a lot about hobgoblins. What plane do the goblinoid deities live on? Acheron or the Nine Hells?
That would be Clangor located in Avalas the first layer Acheron, but recently they have became exarchs of bane. So, maybe their mailing address is now the nine hells.
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
Arcane Trickster is the best subclass in my opinion. It weaves magic into the rogue and if you're trying for that magical master thief, I think its just a masterpiece. I recently played one for a few months in our campaign, and within 2 sessions I went from no gear bar starting equipment, to the richest and most well equipped member of the party. The others had been going for 6months+ at this point. All of this was through using the spells available to the class, and a familiar, to enhance the thievery portion of the class. I'd recommend anyone and everything to try this amazing subclass out.
I'm just loving the possibilities of Booming Blade with Sneak Attacks, using the enhanced Mage Hand and leveraging spells like Disguise Self. Adding in playing a Drow with the Drow Magic feat, I'd be able to Detect Magic at will, attempt to disarm or bypass magical traps & wards with Dispel Magic, and have Identify to figure out what they do. I love the utility flexible without the multiclass dip.
Rogue's utility is what makes them one of my go to classes. Adding magic to it is just gravy.
Okay, personally I think magic is extremely useful and DMs should be thinking on how to remove magic from play from time to time.
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
I also found adding in the Actor feat, for perfect mimicry and all the other features, combined with all the aforementioned, just added another level to its uses.
I know you are probably in love with the Drow characterization and indeed Drow Magic is a great feat.
But so as Wood Elf and the Wood Elf Magic feat. You are able to get Guidance, probably the best cantrip in the game that will reinforce your already terrific skill checks big time. Longstrider is a good spell and it will increase your speed. But the real shining star of this feat is Pass Without Trace; Stealth low rolls and fumbles are no longer a threat for you. Your noisy Fighters and Clerics will not ruin your silent attempts of surprise anymore. Just awesome.
Thank you
Just Shield and Booming Blade are game changers for the Rogue, and there are many other great spells you can use. In my opinion the Arcane Trickster is both the most fun, and the most effective Rogue (not discounting that there are a couple other great choices as well). The Rogue abilities you can gain through the levels are great. I would not sacrifice them to MC, personally.
The Arcane Trickster is most similar to pathfinder’s Eldritch Scoundrel. It doesn’t have enough spell levels. Waiting until level 7 to cast 2nd level spells is too late to make them useful. You’re not even a backup caster if the wizard or sorcerer goes down. It would be better if it was more similar to the Arcane Trickster from 3.5e and Pathfinder.
Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights aren't primary casters, they're third casters (have one third of the spells and slots of a full caster) so you shouldn't try to use them that way; the spell casting is there to supplement the main class (Rogue or Fighter respectively).
In other words, the best way to use an Arcane Trickster is to use magic to supplement your Rogue abilities; disguise, stealth, plus some staples for protecting yourself, or distracting/hindering enemies.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The arcane trickster shines when you don't use it for combat. Nondetection, Disguise Self, creative use of Mage Hand, Suggestion, Charm Person, Enemies Abound, Detect Magic, Alter Self, Knock, Arcane Eye, Dispel Magic and Misty Step are all staples I consider for arcane tricksters when putting together their spell lists.
The addition of magic makes them truly excel at the rogue staples and get past the fact that rogues aren't all too great at getting past magical wards to stop people stealing things (when they sneak past the guards but then trip the Alarm spell they have no means of dealing with, your sneaky thief is in trouble).
Chilling kinda vibe.
It's also worth noting that Arcane Tricksters use the wizard spell list; it's just that only 4 maximum of the spells they actually learn can be outside of school limitations. That means they can just use items (particularly spell scrolls) that are dependent on user spell list without needing an actual level of wizard, although they can't attune to any item that mandates attunement by a wizard. If you have an actual wizard in the party, your ability to use spell scrolls the wizard makes for you should not be overlooked.
Thanks! I really like the Arcane Trickster archetype.
A level 5 arcane trickster rogue apart from the base rogue things can use an invisible mage hand (gith can do this) and cast level 1 spells... level 1 spells let that sink in. So I thought to myself, "Hmmm maybe due to their limited spell casting it should be used for buffs instead, helping to give an advantage in getting in and out of combat." so I looked at the level one spells on offer. If i was a building a thief character what would benefit me: Silent image, feather fall, expeditious retreat (useless since rogues can already bonus action dash), shield, disguise self (useless disguise kit), find familiar (useful for scouting not like the wizard cant do that), long stride (10 feet really isn't worth one of your little spell slots) and bla bla going for spells that buff and could possibly help me achieve peak ROUGENESS because gaining attack spells have little to no use. The highest damage spell you can achieve is a burning hands which is a genuine good spell but it doesn't bring anything to the rogue playstyle. You are sacrificing 3d6 consistent damage for free on top of weapon attacks by going something like swashbuckler for a 1 time 3d6 limp dick casting of burning hands of which the wizard next to you is already upcasting. At the end of the day do what you want and maybe the class comes into itself at later levels and as a concept ye arcane trickster is cool but practically I think the subclass was made the wrong way and maybe if it had class specific spells or maybe it could sneak attack on spells which would be insane but instead its dead weight that can do a little of rogue and a pixy dick of wizard coming out as a watered down salt water.
This is not an attack on people who love this class, this is me voicing my frustration from my party members picking this class to spam fire bolt and complain they deal no damage. If you want to cast spells and be sneaky make a wizard and mess with it. If you want to use spells to be a better rogue make a wizard friend or multiclass this isn't the arcane trickster for you
Thank you
If someone is playing AT to use Firebolt; they are far from playing optimal. What the subclass does extremely well is gish with cantrips like Booming Blade that stack nicely with your Sneak Attack. The spells you can use are often better for non-combat situations. Disguise Self on a Rogue is a nice deal. And the Mage Hand Legerdemain is powerful to disarm traps from a distance, pickpocket, or move small objects discreetly.
At level 5 the AT does 3d6 Sneak Attack, plus has its limited first level spells. A wizard-rogue multi is doing 2d6 Sneak Attack, and if you take 3 levels of Wizard for level 2 spells you aren't even getting to a Rogue subclass. Can't be a better Rogue by slowing down progression on the Rogue class.