It seems pretty cool, but I’m wondering how the Arcane Trickster would stack up against a multi-classed rogue/wizard, especially if they were specialized in illusion or enchantment.
Arcane Tricksters use magic to support their rogueish qualities, and by and large they tend to strike a great balance in that regard thanks to a complementary spell list and not losing out on any core rogue features. Multiclass wizard/rogues have their advantages as well, depending on what class ratio you go for, but the Illusion and Enchantment spells you’d typically use to support rogue tactics almost all allow a save (so you’d want a high Int to increase the save DC) and taking wizard levels reduces sneak attack damage and can preclude getting to some very choice high level rogue abilities. You also can’t get sneak attack damage via ranged spell attacks.
I’m not saying you can’t make a decent wizard/rogue multiclass, but if you want something that plays like an Arcane Trickster the multiclass is arguably never going to stack up. You’ll want to go for something a little different to get the most out of that.
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Arcane Tricksters use magic to support their rogueish qualities, and by and large they tend to strike a great balance in that regard thanks to a complementary spell list and not losing out on any core rogue features. Multiclass wizard/rogues have their advantages as well, depending on what class ratio you go for, but the Illusion and Enchantment spells you’d typically use to support rogue tactics almost all allow a save (so you’d want a high Int to increase the save DC) and taking wizard levels reduces sneak attack damage and can preclude getting to some very choice high level rogue abilities. You also can’t get sneak attack damage via ranged spell attacks.
I’m not saying you can’t make a decent wizard/rogue multiclass, but if you want something that plays like an Arcane Trickster the multiclass is arguably never going to stack up. You’ll want to go for something a little different to get the most out of that.
Arcane Tricksters use magic to support their rogueish qualities, and by and large they tend to strike a great balance in that regard thanks to a complementary spell list and not losing out on any core rogue features. Multiclass wizard/rogues have their advantages as well, depending on what class ratio you go for, but the Illusion and Enchantment spells you’d typically use to support rogue tactics almost all allow a save (so you’d want a high Int to increase the save DC) and taking wizard levels reduces sneak attack damage and can preclude getting to some very choice high level rogue abilities. You also can’t get sneak attack damage via ranged spell attacks.
I’m not saying you can’t make a decent wizard/rogue multiclass, but if you want something that plays like an Arcane Trickster the multiclass is arguably never going to stack up. You’ll want to go for something a little different to get the most out of that.
When multiclassing Rogue and Wizard, losing a little bit of sneak attack damage to gain some extra utility isn't the be-all, end-all for the character. Each sneak attack die averages an additional 3.5 damage but it can be made up in other areas.
Besides, most rogue abilities past level 11 aren't all that great anyway. Gaining proficiency in wisdom saves is great, but you can do the same thing by taking the feat Resilient (Wisdom). The other abilities are mostly ribbons. Blindsense isn't blind sight, so it's not that useful. Spell thief at 17 is trash because by that time you're getting hit with 6th level spells or higher, and by level 13 you're not wasting a turn in combat to cast your mage hand to give yourself help.
What you gain when you multiclass Rogue with Wizard are extra spell slots, ritual casting, a familiar (if you didn't take find familar as your any school spell) as well as defense spells like shield, absorb elements, misty step, etc. You also get what will be your bread and butter spell: Shadow Blade. A regular arcane trickster can only upcast this to 3rd level. Multiclass with Wizard and you can get this baby up to 5th level (4D8) so it makes up for losing some of those sneak attack dice.
Bladesinger makes a great multiclass for Rogues because INT is your secondary stat, ideally. Add +10 speed, and your +INT to your AC and your concentration checks while bladesinging. Also that 2nd attack at level 6 is great. You basically become a tank rogue with this setup. This is great with a 14 Rogue/6 Wizard split, or an 11 rogue/9 wizard split. You'll be almost untouchable, and when you do actually get hit you've got uncanny dodge to halve that.
War Wizard allows you some of the same perks as Bladesinger, though no second attack at higher levels. You do get higher initiative, as well as an at-will +2 to AC or +4 to saving throws as a reaction. The Wizard's arcane recovery for spell slots, and you'll still be able to use Sword Coast cantrips like booming blade. Power surge at level 6 isn't that great, but I've seen a rogue/wizard using it for extra damage with his booming blade cantrip. Every little bit counts.
Divination wizard is great for the portent die, especially if you're dropping control. spells on the enemy. You probably don't need more than 2 or 3 levels in this one, though. But the level 6 ability to gain lower level spell slots for casting divination spells can be very useful in a game where you're doing a lot of exploration.
You could also do a 3 lvl dip into sorcerer instead of wizard. Run an average Int and go more heavily in Charisma. Use your sorcerer spell slots to cast spell save's and the rouges spells slots for everything else. You get better spells more cantrips and more importantly meta magic. Subtle spell for those charm persons, or even twin spell. Quicken so you can cast booming blade as a bonus action and get sneak. I would do a 3 lvl dip until you get to 11 rouge then bump it up to 7 lvl sorc.
Arcane Trickster is by far the best Rogue subclass. It gives more option than the common Cunning Action + try to find a way to dish out Sneak Attack, specially at higher levels (7+).
Don’t underestimate Enchantment and Illusion schools. Those have really good spells to begin with (Charm Person, Disguise Self, Sleep, Tasha’s Hideous Laugher). After level 7 you can choose Mirror Image and Shadow Blade, improving both defense and offense exponentially.
You can still multiclass Wizard as suggested by Oglethorpe and boost your casting ability, but AT chassis offers great versatility — by the way, War Wizard 2 is the best choice for me because you are able to compensate a common weakness for Rogues: Saving Throws.
The problem with multiclassing Rogue is that it slows your sneak attack progression, and delays access to really good rogue features like Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, Reliable Talent etc.
While the spell restrictions on Arcane Trickster are a bit of a pain in the ass (especially since D&D Beyond doesn't enforce them, though at least the spell search feature is really good), being limited to enchantment and illusion for most picks isn't actually a huge problem, as they're often the spells that you want most as a Rogue. Charm person and Disguise Self are perfect for social stealth, and Color Spray is a good option for giving yourself advantage or just blinding a bunch of people to get out of a difficult situation. The hardest part are the handful of unrestricted choices that you get, as there is just so much to choose from.
However, you'll get most mileage out of your cantrips for earlier levels anyway; Arcane Trickster gets Mage Hand but way better for free, and two unrestricted choices where the SCAGtrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) are both ideal choices for dealing damage, while things like Minor Illusion are great for being sneaky, depending upon your campaign.
Plus some of the later Illusion spells are fantastic as DJ_Pereira says; Shadow Blade is a must have for damage output, as not only does it do good damage in its own right, it also stacks with Sneak Attack and the SCAGtrips.
Unless your goal is to emphasise the casting side a lot more then I don't think there's a lot to be gained from Wizard except for a level or two, but that's still a level or two that you'll be dropping behind on Rogue stuff. For most characters Arcane Trickster really gives you all that you will need though.
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save the wild card spell for something less roguish like chromatic orb (you should have something like that by L3)[or more roguish, if you want; blur, misty step, blink, etc)
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Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
Outside of very specific campaigns where surprise rounds seem to happen often, the Arcane Trickster simply does the most damage and is the easiest to use in combat (aside from all the other qualities listed here). Booming Blade combined with things like Minor Illusion, Mirror Image and other control/utility spells will push your round to round DPS way above basically any other subclass, and that's before factoring in the shenanigans from using the find familiar spell for advantage!
The most valuable tactics is the amazing synergy between Booming Blade and Cunning Action. Melee-focused enemies will suffer in your hands.
Assuming an AT level 5, the basic routine as other folks said: get advantage through your familiar, Sneak Booming Blade Attack someone for at least +3d6 (SA) +1d8 (BB) +1d8 (Rapier) damage and move back with your bonus action Disengage (love Cunning Action) looking for some cover. Now your opponent has a hard a choice: if he moves towards to you, he will eat up +2d8. If he doesn’t move, he will probably not attack you or use a weak ranged attack, if he possess, that much likely will fail because you have cover (in case you are hit, you still have Uncanny Dodge to mitigate the damage).
So yeah, Arcane Tricksters are really serious business.
Arcane Tricksters use magic to support their rogueish qualities, and by and large they tend to strike a great balance in that regard thanks to a complementary spell list and not losing out on any core rogue features. Multiclass wizard/rogues have their advantages as well, depending on what class ratio you go for, but the Illusion and Enchantment spells you’d typically use to support rogue tactics almost all allow a save (so you’d want a high Int to increase the save DC) and taking wizard levels reduces sneak attack damage and can preclude getting to some very choice high level rogue abilities. You also can’t get sneak attack damage via ranged spell attacks.
I’m not saying you can’t make a decent wizard/rogue multiclass, but if you want something that plays like an Arcane Trickster the multiclass is arguably never going to stack up. You’ll want to go for something a little different to get the most out of that.
When multiclassing Rogue and Wizard, losing a little bit of sneak attack damage to gain some extra utility isn't the be-all, end-all for the character. Each sneak attack die averages an additional 3.5 damage but it can be made up in other areas.
Besides, most rogue abilities past level 11 aren't all that great anyway. Gaining proficiency in wisdom saves is great, but you can do the same thing by taking the feat Resilient (Wisdom). The other abilities are mostly ribbons. Blindsense isn't blind sight, so it's not that useful. Spell thief at 17 is trash because by that time you're getting hit with 6th level spells or higher, and by level 13 you're not wasting a turn in combat to cast your mage hand to give yourself help.
What you gain when you multiclass Rogue with Wizard are extra spell slots, ritual casting, a familiar (if you didn't take find familar as your any school spell) as well as defense spells like shield, absorb elements, misty step, etc. You also get what will be your bread and butter spell: Shadow Blade. A regular arcane trickster can only upcast this to 3rd level. Multiclass with Wizard and you can get this baby up to 5th level (4D8) so it makes up for losing some of those sneak attack dice.
Bladesinger makes a great multiclass for Rogues because INT is your secondary stat, ideally. Add +10 speed, and your +INT to your AC and your concentration checks while bladesinging. Also that 2nd attack at level 6 is great. You basically become a tank rogue with this setup. This is great with a 14 Rogue/6 Wizard split, or an 11 rogue/9 wizard split. You'll be almost untouchable, and when you do actually get hit you've got uncanny dodge to halve that.
This is an excellent breakdown of my own thoughts behind Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger. The best part is you don't even lose out on damage because we can cast a cantrip as a part of our Extra Attack at Bladesinger 6, as well as the ability to use a 6th or 7th level Shadowblade or Haste to hold an action to attack for a 2nd sneak attack each round. We get Song of Defense & Evasion late, but we get Counterspell and Uncanny Dodge. And sooo many spell slots and spells. You know what's better than Magical Ambush? Magical Ambush with a dozen different options. I honestly think the multiclass is far better than going 20 levels AT.
I think it really depends on what you're looking for in the character. if you're looking to primarily be a rogue and sneak attack things in the face with some magic to support that, arcane trickster is great. If you're looking to be equal mage/rogue, or primarily mage with a dab of rogue, MC...or even single class wizard with the criminal background is a better choice. It really depends on what you want out of the character.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Although admittedly a Rogue fanboy, I'm confident in saying that Arcane Trickster is one of the most broadly enjoyable, versatile, keenly-designed and balanced subclasses in 5e. It's equally rewarding to play for new players as it is for seasoned veterans.
I'm considering a Dark Elf Arcane Trickster. With the character starting at 4th level I like the idea of taking Dark Elf High Magic feat as well to have a nice suite of spell abilities, without diluting to multiclass.
I'm considering a Dark Elf Arcane Trickster. With the character starting at 4th level I like the idea of taking Dark Elf High Magic feat as well to have a nice suite of spell abilities, without diluting to multiclass.
I'm considering a Dark Elf Arcane Trickster. With the character starting at 4th level I like the idea of taking Dark Elf High Magic feat as well to have a nice suite of spell abilities, without diluting to multiclass.
That’s a great idea!
Thanks. The concept I'm going for is a Drow who was groomed to be a wizard in the Underdark. The Illithid capture her and while she is rescued, seeing her fellow apprentices having their brains devoured and the mental torture has ruined her ability to formally train. So to the Drow, she is now worthless so she gathers her initial gear and flees to the surface. She gets accepted by a local thieves' guild who trains her to be a rogue with a specialty towards magical locks and traps. I love Disguise Self and Tasha's for this character concept, and Identify would be a nice addition to go with Detect Magic at will, and Dispel Magic once a day. allows me to play a single class Rogue, but with lots of options that play into the class concept as well as make for a really fun utility caster.
It seems pretty cool, but I’m wondering how the Arcane Trickster would stack up against a multi-classed rogue/wizard, especially if they were specialized in illusion or enchantment.
Arcane Tricksters use magic to support their rogueish qualities, and by and large they tend to strike a great balance in that regard thanks to a complementary spell list and not losing out on any core rogue features. Multiclass wizard/rogues have their advantages as well, depending on what class ratio you go for, but the Illusion and Enchantment spells you’d typically use to support rogue tactics almost all allow a save (so you’d want a high Int to increase the save DC) and taking wizard levels reduces sneak attack damage and can preclude getting to some very choice high level rogue abilities. You also can’t get sneak attack damage via ranged spell attacks.
I’m not saying you can’t make a decent wizard/rogue multiclass, but if you want something that plays like an Arcane Trickster the multiclass is arguably never going to stack up. You’ll want to go for something a little different to get the most out of that.
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Hmm. Good point. Thanks.
When multiclassing Rogue and Wizard, losing a little bit of sneak attack damage to gain some extra utility isn't the be-all, end-all for the character. Each sneak attack die averages an additional 3.5 damage but it can be made up in other areas.
Besides, most rogue abilities past level 11 aren't all that great anyway. Gaining proficiency in wisdom saves is great, but you can do the same thing by taking the feat Resilient (Wisdom). The other abilities are mostly ribbons. Blindsense isn't blind sight, so it's not that useful. Spell thief at 17 is trash because by that time you're getting hit with 6th level spells or higher, and by level 13 you're not wasting a turn in combat to cast your mage hand to give yourself help.
What you gain when you multiclass Rogue with Wizard are extra spell slots, ritual casting, a familiar (if you didn't take find familar as your any school spell) as well as defense spells like shield, absorb elements, misty step, etc. You also get what will be your bread and butter spell: Shadow Blade. A regular arcane trickster can only upcast this to 3rd level. Multiclass with Wizard and you can get this baby up to 5th level (4D8) so it makes up for losing some of those sneak attack dice.
Bladesinger makes a great multiclass for Rogues because INT is your secondary stat, ideally. Add +10 speed, and your +INT to your AC and your concentration checks while bladesinging. Also that 2nd attack at level 6 is great. You basically become a tank rogue with this setup. This is great with a 14 Rogue/6 Wizard split, or an 11 rogue/9 wizard split. You'll be almost untouchable, and when you do actually get hit you've got uncanny dodge to halve that.
War Wizard allows you some of the same perks as Bladesinger, though no second attack at higher levels. You do get higher initiative, as well as an at-will +2 to AC or +4 to saving throws as a reaction. The Wizard's arcane recovery for spell slots, and you'll still be able to use Sword Coast cantrips like booming blade. Power surge at level 6 isn't that great, but I've seen a rogue/wizard using it for extra damage with his booming blade cantrip. Every little bit counts.
Divination wizard is great for the portent die, especially if you're dropping control. spells on the enemy. You probably don't need more than 2 or 3 levels in this one, though. But the level 6 ability to gain lower level spell slots for casting divination spells can be very useful in a game where you're doing a lot of exploration.
You could also do a 3 lvl dip into sorcerer instead of wizard. Run an average Int and go more heavily in Charisma. Use your sorcerer spell slots to cast spell save's and the rouges spells slots for everything else. You get better spells more cantrips and more importantly meta magic. Subtle spell for those charm persons, or even twin spell. Quicken so you can cast booming blade as a bonus action and get sneak. I would do a 3 lvl dip until you get to 11 rouge then bump it up to 7 lvl sorc.
Arcane Trickster is by far the best Rogue subclass. It gives more option than the common Cunning Action + try to find a way to dish out Sneak Attack, specially at higher levels (7+).
Don’t underestimate Enchantment and Illusion schools. Those have really good spells to begin with (Charm Person, Disguise Self, Sleep, Tasha’s Hideous Laugher). After level 7 you can choose Mirror Image and Shadow Blade, improving both defense and offense exponentially.
You can still multiclass Wizard as suggested by Oglethorpe and boost your casting ability, but AT chassis offers great versatility — by the way, War Wizard 2 is the best choice for me because you are able to compensate a common weakness for Rogues: Saving Throws.
The problem with multiclassing Rogue is that it slows your sneak attack progression, and delays access to really good rogue features like Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, Reliable Talent etc.
While the spell restrictions on Arcane Trickster are a bit of a pain in the ass (especially since D&D Beyond doesn't enforce them, though at least the spell search feature is really good), being limited to enchantment and illusion for most picks isn't actually a huge problem, as they're often the spells that you want most as a Rogue. Charm person and Disguise Self are perfect for social stealth, and Color Spray is a good option for giving yourself advantage or just blinding a bunch of people to get out of a difficult situation. The hardest part are the handful of unrestricted choices that you get, as there is just so much to choose from.
However, you'll get most mileage out of your cantrips for earlier levels anyway; Arcane Trickster gets Mage Hand but way better for free, and two unrestricted choices where the SCAGtrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) are both ideal choices for dealing damage, while things like Minor Illusion are great for being sneaky, depending upon your campaign.
Plus some of the later Illusion spells are fantastic as DJ_Pereira says; Shadow Blade is a must have for damage output, as not only does it do good damage in its own right, it also stacks with Sneak Attack and the SCAGtrips.
Unless your goal is to emphasise the casting side a lot more then I don't think there's a lot to be gained from Wizard except for a level or two, but that's still a level or two that you'll be dropping behind on Rogue stuff. For most characters Arcane Trickster really gives you all that you will need though.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I completely agree with Haravikk. I would go AT from 1 to 10 without questioning. After this I would consider War Wizard multiclass.
Get your DEX to 18 at 4, grab Sentinel at 8 to combo with Mirror Image and then max DEX to 20 at 10. You can never go wrong with a classic spellthief!
Thanks for the advice.
save the wild card spell for something less roguish like chromatic orb (you should have something like that by L3)[or more roguish, if you want; blur, misty step, blink, etc)
Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
Outside of very specific campaigns where surprise rounds seem to happen often, the Arcane Trickster simply does the most damage and is the easiest to use in combat (aside from all the other qualities listed here). Booming Blade combined with things like Minor Illusion, Mirror Image and other control/utility spells will push your round to round DPS way above basically any other subclass, and that's before factoring in the shenanigans from using the find familiar spell for advantage!
The most valuable tactics is the amazing synergy between Booming Blade and Cunning Action. Melee-focused enemies will suffer in your hands.
Assuming an AT level 5, the basic routine as other folks said: get advantage through your familiar, Sneak Booming Blade Attack someone for at least +3d6 (SA) +1d8 (BB) +1d8 (Rapier) damage and move back with your bonus action Disengage (love Cunning Action) looking for some cover. Now your opponent has a hard a choice: if he moves towards to you, he will eat up +2d8. If he doesn’t move, he will probably not attack you or use a weak ranged attack, if he possess, that much likely will fail because you have cover (in case you are hit, you still have Uncanny Dodge to mitigate the damage).
So yeah, Arcane Tricksters are really serious business.
Awesome. Maybe I’ll create one when I do a character for this site.
This is an excellent breakdown of my own thoughts behind Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger. The best part is you don't even lose out on damage because we can cast a cantrip as a part of our Extra Attack at Bladesinger 6, as well as the ability to use a 6th or 7th level Shadowblade or Haste to hold an action to attack for a 2nd sneak attack each round. We get Song of Defense & Evasion late, but we get Counterspell and Uncanny Dodge. And sooo many spell slots and spells. You know what's better than Magical Ambush? Magical Ambush with a dozen different options. I honestly think the multiclass is far better than going 20 levels AT.
I think it really depends on what you're looking for in the character. if you're looking to primarily be a rogue and sneak attack things in the face with some magic to support that, arcane trickster is great. If you're looking to be equal mage/rogue, or primarily mage with a dab of rogue, MC...or even single class wizard with the criminal background is a better choice. It really depends on what you want out of the character.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Although admittedly a Rogue fanboy, I'm confident in saying that Arcane Trickster is one of the most broadly enjoyable, versatile, keenly-designed and balanced subclasses in 5e. It's equally rewarding to play for new players as it is for seasoned veterans.
I'm considering a Dark Elf Arcane Trickster. With the character starting at 4th level I like the idea of taking Dark Elf High Magic feat as well to have a nice suite of spell abilities, without diluting to multiclass.
That’s a great idea!
Thanks. The concept I'm going for is a Drow who was groomed to be a wizard in the Underdark. The Illithid capture her and while she is rescued, seeing her fellow apprentices having their brains devoured and the mental torture has ruined her ability to formally train. So to the Drow, she is now worthless so she gathers her initial gear and flees to the surface. She gets accepted by a local thieves' guild who trains her to be a rogue with a specialty towards magical locks and traps. I love Disguise Self and Tasha's for this character concept, and Identify would be a nice addition to go with Detect Magic at will, and Dispel Magic once a day. allows me to play a single class Rogue, but with lots of options that play into the class concept as well as make for a really fun utility caster.
Cool but remember among the drow wizards are traditionally men. If she’s a girl studying arcane magic she’s already a gender pioneer for her species.